Time to solo; now versus the "good old days"
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I'd rather spend a little more time making sure that the initial lessons are properly understood. While the time to solo might not be the shortest, it doesn't have to be super long either. I believe that the rest of the PPL course is so much easier if the basics are there. It can also be cheaper for the student. If they can't hold a decent straight and level for a navex, that gets expensive. Straight and level, turning to a heading, en-route checks, climbing and descending and crucially levelling out after a level change, if these basic skills are inbred from the start, the rest should be a doddle.
I took well over 10 hours to go solo, not sure exactly how much. I took something like 45.5 hours to get my PPL. But this has no meaning without the context. To be honest all this comparison of numbers means nothing, because there are so many factors that affect the time people take to achieve each milestone.
The fact is if you are learning to fly and enjoying it and achieving at least something each lesson, who cares how long it takes? Weather, age, finances, timing, the airfield environment, personal aptitude, all have a part to play in influencing progress. Surely the point is to learn, not to enter an hours based willy-waving contest.
Plus the hours taken are in no way a reflection upon the final outcome. There are some new PPLs who took twice as long as other new PPLs, and often they are way better pilots for the extra time they took.
Additionally, you should never stop learning. Just IMO.
I took well over 10 hours to go solo, not sure exactly how much. I took something like 45.5 hours to get my PPL. But this has no meaning without the context. To be honest all this comparison of numbers means nothing, because there are so many factors that affect the time people take to achieve each milestone.
The fact is if you are learning to fly and enjoying it and achieving at least something each lesson, who cares how long it takes? Weather, age, finances, timing, the airfield environment, personal aptitude, all have a part to play in influencing progress. Surely the point is to learn, not to enter an hours based willy-waving contest.
Plus the hours taken are in no way a reflection upon the final outcome. There are some new PPLs who took twice as long as other new PPLs, and often they are way better pilots for the extra time they took.
Additionally, you should never stop learning. Just IMO.
In 1968 I went solo in a Tiger Moth after about 3 hours. I was a fairly experienced glider pilot. Everything I needed to know was in a small green book called "The Student Pilot's Handbook". There was no radio.
After 70 hours I had to give up and, in 1997, I had to went through the whole course again. I went solo after about 6 hours and everything I needed to know came in several large books.
After 70 hours I had to give up and, in 1997, I had to went through the whole course again. I went solo after about 6 hours and everything I needed to know came in several large books.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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The thing about that first solo flight that hasn't been mentioned on here yet is it's a confidence booster. The fact that one has flown an aeroplane entirely on one's own boosts self esteem and belief in one's own ability in a way nothing else will. This can greatly increase the rate of progress post solo as a result.
So as soon as a student is consistently safe it's surely a good thing to send them off solo and not wait any longer.
So as soon as a student is consistently safe it's surely a good thing to send them off solo and not wait any longer.
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Personally I think its a mixture of instructors making sure people can handle EFATO's, local traffic situation, RT and the normal lessons.
The old school were more than likely negative RT
They were flying from grass strips with little or none local traffic.
They didn't have fitting between 737's and A320's to deal with.
Also some places the time of useful lesson has decreased as well. With a bit more than 10mins on the ground fannying around before you takeoff in an hour.
Where as old school it was start, engine check look left and right and bugger off.
The old school were more than likely negative RT
They were flying from grass strips with little or none local traffic.
They didn't have fitting between 737's and A320's to deal with.
Also some places the time of useful lesson has decreased as well. With a bit more than 10mins on the ground fannying around before you takeoff in an hour.
Where as old school it was start, engine check look left and right and bugger off.
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I think it comes down to two issues, the first probably being the more significant:
1. My impression is that most training these days is more spread about (e.g. up to 1 lesson per week depending on weather), whereas the majority of those 'good old days' figures you see someone was doing an intensive course. During my training I certainly noticed that if I hadn't flown for a couple of weeks due to weather cancellations or whatever, I spent a reasonable chunk of the lesson just getting back to where I was at the end of the last one...
2. When it gets to circuit training, some of the larger circuits flown these days (e.g. due to noise abatement, or sadly more frequently just due to instructors teaching bomber circuits for no apparent reason) can lead to getting fewer circuits done in the same time. Given that after the first few, the majority of the circuit isn't teaching anything new (i.e. the important bits are to a lesser extent the climb out, and primarily the approach and landing - crosswind / downwind get mastered fairly early), if it's flown wider and therefore longer it can take a lot more flight time to do the same number of approaches / landings...
1. My impression is that most training these days is more spread about (e.g. up to 1 lesson per week depending on weather), whereas the majority of those 'good old days' figures you see someone was doing an intensive course. During my training I certainly noticed that if I hadn't flown for a couple of weeks due to weather cancellations or whatever, I spent a reasonable chunk of the lesson just getting back to where I was at the end of the last one...
2. When it gets to circuit training, some of the larger circuits flown these days (e.g. due to noise abatement, or sadly more frequently just due to instructors teaching bomber circuits for no apparent reason) can lead to getting fewer circuits done in the same time. Given that after the first few, the majority of the circuit isn't teaching anything new (i.e. the important bits are to a lesser extent the climb out, and primarily the approach and landing - crosswind / downwind get mastered fairly early), if it's flown wider and therefore longer it can take a lot more flight time to do the same number of approaches / landings...
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Trouble is for me the good old days began when I was 50 years old already, so progress not spectacular. However, at that time I had enough money to throw at flying and decided as I wasn't getting any younger, to do as much as possible as soon as possible. So solo in a glider in 65 airtow launches at Booker (WAP), and the next summer the silver "C" (5 hours endurance, 1,000 meter gain of height, and 50 k cross country) entitled me to get the power license in 16 hours.
Having sensibly handed in my medical at the age of 78 (or was it 77? can't remember now!) I still fly in a 2 seater glider in the instructor's seat, while my safety pilot has to sit in the front seat and suffer. Last Saturday flew on aerotow to 2,500' at Shenington, and found lift! soared for 29 minutes, and didn't have to come down except they were waiting on the ground for me to bring the glider back. This on the first day of November! Wow! Absolutely delightful.
But if you think that me still flying at 81 is remarkable, a chap named Derek Piggot stopped by not too long ago at Shenners, and he passed his check ride no problem, went off in his vintage glider for a jolly. But he's got a lot more in his logbook than most of us mortals.
Having sensibly handed in my medical at the age of 78 (or was it 77? can't remember now!) I still fly in a 2 seater glider in the instructor's seat, while my safety pilot has to sit in the front seat and suffer. Last Saturday flew on aerotow to 2,500' at Shenington, and found lift! soared for 29 minutes, and didn't have to come down except they were waiting on the ground for me to bring the glider back. This on the first day of November! Wow! Absolutely delightful.
But if you think that me still flying at 81 is remarkable, a chap named Derek Piggot stopped by not too long ago at Shenners, and he passed his check ride no problem, went off in his vintage glider for a jolly. But he's got a lot more in his logbook than most of us mortals.
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Landings per hour
Lot of good stuff above, at one time I was teaching at Mary's home field at Booker, with the large circuit we would get five landings per hour.
I have moved to an airfield that has an 800 ft oval curcuit and the landings rate per hour is nine.
The time to solo is a directly proportional to the landing practice not time following another aircraft around an overly large circuit.
I have moved to an airfield that has an 800 ft oval curcuit and the landings rate per hour is nine.
The time to solo is a directly proportional to the landing practice not time following another aircraft around an overly large circuit.
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As a beginning student I liked a long downwind, it gave me time to do all checks and let me prepare for base+final. Not so much an issue when flying only the circuit, but especially when entering downwind halfway after returning from the practice area.
I also progressed from gliding to power. In my case we did some general handling during the first hour of my 'silver c conversion' followed by a couple of circuits. The second hour was just circuits with the instructor getting out for the last one. The navex and gft all completed in the statutory eight hours then required. I visited the CAA in Queensgate and had my licence in my hand at the end of week two.
I tell this story not to show off, but to make an important point. There is a lot of luck in life. When I showed up at my local airfield the CFI of one of the air squadrons was covering for the owners who were away on holiday. The weather was unusually good and he was familiar with Bicester where I was an instructor. We did the training in a very concentrated fashion and I was young and highly motivated....not least to keep the cost down! I have always considered myself an average pilot. But the very good grounding I got from Andy Gough and his team laid the foundations not just for a PPL but for a career.
I tell this story not to show off, but to make an important point. There is a lot of luck in life. When I showed up at my local airfield the CFI of one of the air squadrons was covering for the owners who were away on holiday. The weather was unusually good and he was familiar with Bicester where I was an instructor. We did the training in a very concentrated fashion and I was young and highly motivated....not least to keep the cost down! I have always considered myself an average pilot. But the very good grounding I got from Andy Gough and his team laid the foundations not just for a PPL but for a career.
Last edited by lederhosen; 10th Nov 2014 at 08:06.
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I went solo in 5 hrs 40 mins. It was on an RAF flying scholarship, so standards were high and lessons were multiple times a day which was a factor I suspect. My instructor was the CFI which also helped. Plus the weather was good (for Scotland anyway!)
This was mid 2000's.
This was mid 2000's.
Its not how you start but where you finish that matters. My role model who flew (but was not considered good enough to be a pilot) in the second world war is still flying (with a safety pilot) in his mid nineties and flew his seneca with a twin IR into his seventies.
