Do I change flight school 37hrs into training?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Agree with Step. And I'd take it a tad further. The PPL, by necessity, teaches you to 'fly by numbers and rote'. Given the complexity of learning to fly, that's the only way it can be done with a neophyte stude.

An example is the use of 'stall speed' to prevent the stude from flying too slowly. When we 'grow up' aeronautically speaking, we learn that there is no such thing as stall speed, only stall angle (of attack).

If we progress to aerobatics we soon learn that there is often little relationship between the stall and the ASI indication.

Circuit planning consists of stuff like "at this point on base leg reduce power to xxx, extend x degrees of flap, and trim for x knots". Hmmm. Try that when flying into a tight, sloping, farm strip with the weaving approach flown between trees and buildings.

When we get more experienced all that 'do it by rote' stuff is, rightly, ditched and we fly the aeroplane to make it do what we want. Eventually with the right sort of aeroplane and sufficient experience the aeroplane becomes an extension of the pilot, and he doesn't need to consciously think about the mechanics of operating the controls.

I know I was a very long way from that when I completed my PPL many decades ago.

[worldpilot]

Yes, the instructor introduces aspirants to the concepts of flying, but the key is to establish that preparedness that enables the transition from a training environment (pre PPL) to the private flying environment (post PPL).

No doubt, a wealth of knowledge and experience is acquired in advance of PPL training, but a properly trained pilot is in a position to feel comfortable at the controls of an aircraft.

This reminds of the situation with N559DW where a low time PPL pilot was able to control a twin aircraft (King Air 200) to a safe landing, after the pilot became diseased. He had no prior experience in flying a twin.

So, aviation is about mental state and decision-making capabilities. Without proper training, Douq White would have perished with his family onboard.

Watch the Youtube link below for this courageous performance.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Two of the spin-offs of learning to fly, for me, were improved decision making skills and an enhanced ability to address vital issues NOW and secondary ones later - including the ability to differentiate rapidly which ARE the vital issues and which can wait.

This undoubtedly helped me progress in my (non aviation) career. I like to think that all that money I spent on my main 'outside of work' interest was more than paid back in career advancement that may not have happened if I hadn't taken up aviating.

On a related note, wasn't it Nevil Shute, in one of his books, who wrote words to the effect of "doing something demanding, like flying, which has an ever present element of danger if you get it wrong, gives one an enhanced sense of proportion in dealing with everyday life"?

[9 lives]

When we get more experienced all that 'do it by rote' stuff is, rightly, ditched and we fly the aeroplane to make it do what we want. Eventually with the right sort of aeroplane and sufficient experience the aeroplane becomes an extension of the pilot, and he doesn't need to consciously think about the mechanics of operating the controls.

I totally agree.

Yes, points to the unprepared King Air pilot. based upon my King Air flying, I would imagine that this pilot was superior in skill to your average new PPL, and luckily had most things going their way for that flight.

There are a lot of operations which are very different to what a PPL is trained for. For example, my recent landing into a mountain pass runway I had never flown into before. The calculated ground roll for landing was 876 feet, and for takeoff 869 feet. The runway length available was 975 feet (of wet grass) to the fence (which they offered to take down for my takeoff). This is within the capability of the aircraft, but not within that of a new PPL, even in a regular 172.

Downwind was flown more or less down the runway, and the downwind to base to final turn was a 2200 foot diameter circle in the mountains. Odd stuff for me, a flat land pilot.

They video'd me, I did okay.

It can be seen on Post 963 of this thread;

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...videos-49.html

If a new PPL told me that they were capable of this, I would be taking them aside as quietly as I could for a talk with a lot of warnings in it. I don't think many instructors would try this, much less train it to their students. Is landing on a runway 105% of the ground run requirement even trained? I don't think that many instructors, let alone PPLs, are "properly trained" to fly a 182 amphibian at all in the PPL training routine. But, this is the post PPL world of flying for a few well off PPLs. As comfortable as they might feel, they are not ready for one of these, without a whole bunch of type training (so they'd not be "new" anymore). Hint: The power off, 20 flap, approach path is a 12.5 degree descent angle. The forced landing area is nowhere near as far away as you expect, and timing the flare is critical, to prevent wrecking a $150,000 set of floats. The owner, my student (exiting from the right seat on this flight) received training from me, then demonstrated four pretty good full power off landings, with that steep 12.5 degree approach, and good flares, before I would send him solo at all.

No one will do PPL training on an aircraft of this nature, and even if were contemplated, the insurance would disallow it (premium for me was $17,500 per year, with a $25,000 deductible - I own a whole airplane cheaper than that!). So the new PPL is going to have to do a lot of training on this type of plane afterword (post PPL). A normal checkout on something like this would be in the 25+ hours range. That's all post PPL learning, and even it is a minimum!

Even a PPL getting into a Bonanza, Lance, Mooney, or Centurion has a whole lot more training to do, just to be minimally competent.

I'm not knocking PPL training, but simply trying to illuminate that it is a very small first step in learning to be a pilot. Step by step, you become a pilot, be prepared for many steps ahead, and take them with humility....

[Corsican]

Any pilot that thinks flying starts after PPL has doubt in his/her personal
aviation capabilities.

Hi WP

You may have interpreted what I was trying to say too literally or alternatively, I did not express myself clearly enough.

My point is that with a PPL, you have satisfied the minimum legal essentials to fly. The PPL examiner will decide whether the demonstrated minimum is sufficient to pass and if you achieved more than the minimum, it does not mean you get more than the basic PPL. I would be crazy and/or a danger to others if I thought I could do anything having obtained that piece of paper. For instance, I worked on crosswind landings during my PPL, but that does not mean that I considered myself all set to go the day after I passed my skills test for a full crosswind landing on a short wet grass runway that I've never been to with known windshear on certain approaches.

I need to know my limits (which means being totally honest with myself - I do not see that as doubt) but also develop my skills progressively by, amongst a variety of sources, talking to more experienced pilots, practising or doing advanced training/ratings etc etc. Unfortunately, I am not a natural born flyer, so I know I need to keep working at it to be better. Maybe I will see things differently later, but it seems the right approach for me now.

Actually, SSD and Step Turn expressed what I was trying to say much better.

[Wingman1972]

UPDATE!!!

Hi everyone
i firstly want to say i am so blown away from the response from you all and thank you al so much for your help and advice it has helped me make the right decision i am sure,
special thanks to GQ, ST, SSD, Corsican, world pilot thank you everyone

firstly i want to admit i made an error in calculating my hours, i had only done 29 hrs supervised and 2.5 solo, the solo was circuit consolodatioin,

i have been very busy since though,

i firstrly had my little test to fly ten miles out of the circuit and show i could handle the pa28 there and back joining the ciorcuit albeit a bit scruffy but got there all good with rx to air field etc
then my next lesson was to go twice the distanced, this too went without any hiccups
then my big day which i have to say was a very exciting day i got to do my first land away, i flew 20 miles to land, had a quick cup of sweet tea for shock lol, then quick transit check and headed back, all went well i even recorded the flight on my i phone using sky demon, (sky demon is amazing helpful tool)
i have to say this for me was the best part so far of my training, all the hard work we had all put in had paid off
with regards to moving school i took a long hard look at my options and also spoke with my instructor who told it to me streight,
i agree with what a lot of you said and sat down and talked to him and explained my concerns and eg weather about to change etc,
i now have a great FI with whom i had flown with breifly before, i also have a CFI who has been flying for over 35 years which is awsome too the wealth of experiance from these guys is so valuable
its horses for courses really,
i now know what happened i panicked as i thought i was not getting anywhere and my instructor leaving might put me back,
but really its down to the stude to put the effort in and talk to people,
if anyone is thinking about training i would strongly recomend just getting stuck in, ask for more than one FI,CFI and go for it, my circumstances with work/family life commitments really hampered my progress, but it can be done,
i am now doing VOR's IMC/s
my next sorte is to do a 97 mile XC, with one basic two basic services needed, and three MATZ penetrations, this was planned for yesterday but we decided against it due to bad weather and MATZ closed etc, (we done more VOR's instead)
i know the weather is going to hamper my training slightly but im sure if i stay focused and determined it will be ok
i have fell in love with flying more and more as time as gone on and i still have to pinch myself to believe i am doing this,
i am even dreaming VOR's at night at the moment as i am so determined to now learn as much as popssible, the learning will never end im sure, as some of you have said
the training is life saving skills, we will never know if we will one day have to do a real PFL, (my instructor had to do one for real on a trial flight only two weeks ago!!! he had engine failure)
at the end of the training i am hoping to join a small syndicate, and just enjoy getting in the air as much as possible and learn even more about myself and flying and the ultimate goal would be to do my night rating, imc, CPL and maybe get a carreer in flying, who knows where it will lead?? Suzi Air?? now that would be awsome, but i think a while yet lol
anyway enough babbling from me lol
Thank you all so much for helping me make the right decision, and i hope this will help others to make the right decision if thinking about PPL, it really is down to the individual how they chose to do the PPL, in my case i strung it out and should have just got on with it sooner, my instructor leaving just gave me the kick up the ass i needed,
up up and at it, i will come back and let you know how my XC goes when the weather permits