Mid-Air Collision over Bedfordshire
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The weather was clear. Sunny and blue sky.
I was in my garden at the time and the crash is about 1500m from the end of my garden.
I was watching the air ambulance and police helicopters through binos just after the event and there was no haze visible.
I was in my garden at the time and the crash is about 1500m from the end of my garden.
I was watching the air ambulance and police helicopters through binos just after the event and there was no haze visible.
Last edited by DeepC; 25th Sep 2014 at 09:18.
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Actually, having flown yesterday both morning and afternoon, the visibility was variously reported as around 8-9 km. It was reasonably hazy, and I was grateful for the traffic service I had for the afternoon flight in the afternoon which was mostly in a westerly direction (towards low sun in haze) because spotting stuff was hard enough even knowing where to look.
I'm not saying these conditions may or may not have been contributory, just saying that conditions "up top" are not necessarily that easy to ascertain from one's garden.
I'm not saying these conditions may or may not have been contributory, just saying that conditions "up top" are not necessarily that easy to ascertain from one's garden.
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fwjc, fair point. Just giving my observations.
The Cessna was on it's way to Sywell so would presumably have been heading Westerly away from the morning sun. The kitfox therefore would have to have been looking into the sun (to his left as he was heading southerly to Sandy) to see the Cessna approaching.
Very sad.
The Cessna was on it's way to Sywell so would presumably have been heading Westerly away from the morning sun. The kitfox therefore would have to have been looking into the sun (to his left as he was heading southerly to Sandy) to see the Cessna approaching.
Very sad.
Last edited by DeepC; 26th Sep 2014 at 07:27. Reason: Westerly, doh!
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These mid air tragedies often happen in clear viz. Sometimes haze provides a uniform background which makes other aircraft more visible at close range, whereas in clear viz the background clutter can make visual acquisition of traffic more difficult. Any anyway, in any conditions the human eye is pretty poor at identifying traffic on a collision course (no relative movement) until the last second or so when it's usually too late to avoid.
And this time of year the sun is low in the sky, especially at the time this accident happened. If you're flying into such a sun.....
Usually "the sky is a big place and the chance of two aeroplanes being in the exactly the same place at exactly the same height at exactly the same time" keeps us safe from this sort of tragedy. But in areas of heavy traffic, sometime's it doesn't.
And this time of year the sun is low in the sky, especially at the time this accident happened. If you're flying into such a sun.....
Usually "the sky is a big place and the chance of two aeroplanes being in the exactly the same place at exactly the same height at exactly the same time" keeps us safe from this sort of tragedy. But in areas of heavy traffic, sometime's it doesn't.
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Actually, having flown yesterday both morning and afternoon, the visibility was variously reported as around 8-9 km. It was reasonably hazy, and I was grateful for the traffic service I had for the afternoon flight in the afternoon which was mostly in a westerly direction (towards low sun in haze) because spotting stuff was hard enough even knowing where to look.
Statistically unlikely in open FIR but the airspace designers seem to want to push us into smaller and smaller areas under the LTMA and between airports where the density of VFR traffic makes mid-airs much more likely. Personally, I route away from such areas, even if it means a substantial diversion around London. Thankfully, in poor viz, Farnborough now seem more willing to give a traffic service but this can't overcome the fact that you have to put your head down to read a map, write down a squalk and then put it into the transponder, check your heading, change tanks, change frequency........ all things that keep you from looking out.
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Bob, why write down the squawk code? Just dial it up.
Same with radio frequencies, count the clicks from the previous one, then take a quick look inside to confirm and correct if needed.
Same with radio frequencies, count the clicks from the previous one, then take a quick look inside to confirm and correct if needed.
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Usually "the sky is a big place and the chance of two aeroplanes being in the exactly the same place at exactly the same height at exactly the same time" keeps us safe from this sort of tragedy. But in areas of heavy traffic, sometime's it doesn'
Not saying any of the above would have changed the outcome in the tragedy in this particular thread and condolences to the friends and families.
Fly safe, little things may make the difference
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ShyTorque
9 times out of 10 when I'm given a squawk, I'm also given a QNH. I was taught that reading back both comes before dialling in the new squawk. If I don't write both down, 9 times out of 10, I will have forgotten the squawk by the time I've read back the QNH, and certainly by the time I've reset the QNH! Others may have better short term memories and recall though. I have to say that modern transponders with buttons for the numbers are a huge improvement on ones with dials. Worst are the ones where you have to press a knob to select the digit, turn it for the digit required, press again for the next digit etc.
9 times out of 10 when I'm given a squawk, I'm also given a QNH. I was taught that reading back both comes before dialling in the new squawk. If I don't write both down, 9 times out of 10, I will have forgotten the squawk by the time I've read back the QNH, and certainly by the time I've reset the QNH! Others may have better short term memories and recall though. I have to say that modern transponders with buttons for the numbers are a huge improvement on ones with dials. Worst are the ones where you have to press a knob to select the digit, turn it for the digit required, press again for the next digit etc.
Avoid imitations
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ShyTorque
9 times out of 10 when I'm given a squawk, I'm also given a QNH. I was taught that reading back both comes before dialling in the new squawk. If I don't write both down, 9 times out of 10, I will have forgotten the squawk by the time I've read back the QNH, and certainly by the time I've reset the QNH! Others may have better short term memories and recall though. I have to say that modern transponders with buttons for the numbers are a huge improvement on ones with dials. Worst are the ones where you have to press a knob to select the digit, turn it for the digit required, press again for the next digit etc.
9 times out of 10 when I'm given a squawk, I'm also given a QNH. I was taught that reading back both comes before dialling in the new squawk. If I don't write both down, 9 times out of 10, I will have forgotten the squawk by the time I've read back the QNH, and certainly by the time I've reset the QNH! Others may have better short term memories and recall though. I have to say that modern transponders with buttons for the numbers are a huge improvement on ones with dials. Worst are the ones where you have to press a knob to select the digit, turn it for the digit required, press again for the next digit etc.
It's often obvious on the radio who is fumbling with their pen before reading back the figures to ATC due to the delay in replying. As well as blocking a busy frequency, it's all extra time "eyes in" because you then have you back inside a second time to change the settings.
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It's often obvious on the radio who is fumbling with their pen before reading back the figures to ATC due to the delay
Avoid imitations
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Looks like I was taught wrong then. I'll let my instructor know.
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you then have you back inside a second time to change the settings.
Avoid imitations
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Can you still find him?!
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To be fair, although I don't write down the squawks and QNHs in the air now, I did do so throughout my training and earlier on in my flying career.
I don't know when it happened, but it was probably at around the 100-125 hour mark, and I wasn't doing it deliberately, it just happened, I think as a result of becoming more familiar with what to expect on the radio.
What also helps is push button transponders rather than the rotary knob types. I find myself keying in the squawk directly as I read it back. Fannying around with the knobs is more time consuming and doesn't lend itself to simultaneous reading back.
On the ground I do write down complex clearances especially at unfamiliar airports. As often as not I have to refer to the plate in those circumstances when they give a specific taxiway and holding point that I'm unfamiliar with.
Only a couple of weeks ago I was given the wrong taxiway, holding point and runway by an ATCO running on autopilot. As the wind was calm, I saw no reason to question it at the time, so I wrote it down, and read it back while writing it down. On taxying, I saw other traffic and questioned the instructions, glad I did... and I had the evidence.
I don't know when it happened, but it was probably at around the 100-125 hour mark, and I wasn't doing it deliberately, it just happened, I think as a result of becoming more familiar with what to expect on the radio.
What also helps is push button transponders rather than the rotary knob types. I find myself keying in the squawk directly as I read it back. Fannying around with the knobs is more time consuming and doesn't lend itself to simultaneous reading back.
On the ground I do write down complex clearances especially at unfamiliar airports. As often as not I have to refer to the plate in those circumstances when they give a specific taxiway and holding point that I'm unfamiliar with.
Only a couple of weeks ago I was given the wrong taxiway, holding point and runway by an ATCO running on autopilot. As the wind was calm, I saw no reason to question it at the time, so I wrote it down, and read it back while writing it down. On taxying, I saw other traffic and questioned the instructions, glad I did... and I had the evidence.
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Yes, sorry, Westerly. edited.
If the Cardinal was over Tempsford, Sywell is WNW. Would seem logical he was heading westerly.
Does anyone know where it came from?
If the Cardinal was over Tempsford, Sywell is WNW. Would seem logical he was heading westerly.
Does anyone know where it came from?
