Real cost of gaining PPL in the UK 2014
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First time posting in this side of the forum, I wanted to say was that there are ways of doing these things that can save vast amounts of money. It depends on the school you go to, and how it is run.
If you are able to find yourself an instructor who is willing to teach you on someones aircraft (who is willing to let you), the savings will be massive. They're not hard to get hold of. Just don't be traditional and go to a school who are charging you a fortune at every opportunity.
What about 45 hours @ £120 instead?
A fuel surcharge? I didn't pay one of those.
Equipment and books £0 (share with a fellow human?)
Skills test - fair enough.
Medical - pretty sure I paid about £55 for my class 2?
Club membership is usually included in the cost of the hire for the day, or it certainly was where I learnt?
Headset you don't absolutely have to buy, but I got a lovely David Clarke for a couple of hundred. Certainly don't need Bose written on anything you own apart from maybe a Range Rover sound system.
Where are you paying that? I got a quote for tailwheel training on a Chipmunk at Duxford for that price?
So...there are big differences and its really dependant on where you go. It's easy for me to say, I basically had my PPL paid for by the idiots at the MOD, but don't just accept that you are going to spend enough for a small house deposit.
As I say, find yourself an aircraft and an instructor and you're laughing. If you can find someone letting you fly an aircraft at a sensible rate once qualified then that's even better.
p.s. If you're in the London area and you want to fly, you could fly with RS for £80 an hour + instruction in a very smart PA38? If you're paying over £130 an hour for flying anything up to PA28 size, you're just wasting money. There are ways around it.
If you are able to find yourself an instructor who is willing to teach you on someones aircraft (who is willing to let you), the savings will be massive. They're not hard to get hold of. Just don't be traditional and go to a school who are charging you a fortune at every opportunity.
58 hours @ £155 per hour (Cessna 152) = £8990
58 hours fuel surcharge @ £6 per hour average = £348
Equipment & Books (not including headset) = £297
Skills Test (including 2 .5 hours rental, examiner & CAA fee) = £483
Medical £170
Club membership fee = £115
Headset £915 (Bose A20)
58 hours fuel surcharge @ £6 per hour average = £348
Equipment & Books (not including headset) = £297
Skills Test (including 2 .5 hours rental, examiner & CAA fee) = £483
Medical £170
Club membership fee = £115
Headset £915 (Bose A20)
What about 45 hours @ £120 instead?
A fuel surcharge? I didn't pay one of those.
Equipment and books £0 (share with a fellow human?)
Skills test - fair enough.
Medical - pretty sure I paid about £55 for my class 2?
Club membership is usually included in the cost of the hire for the day, or it certainly was where I learnt?
Headset you don't absolutely have to buy, but I got a lovely David Clarke for a couple of hundred. Certainly don't need Bose written on anything you own apart from maybe a Range Rover sound system.
Let's say it takes 60 hours at £175
So...there are big differences and its really dependant on where you go. It's easy for me to say, I basically had my PPL paid for by the idiots at the MOD, but don't just accept that you are going to spend enough for a small house deposit.
As I say, find yourself an aircraft and an instructor and you're laughing. If you can find someone letting you fly an aircraft at a sensible rate once qualified then that's even better.
p.s. If you're in the London area and you want to fly, you could fly with RS for £80 an hour + instruction in a very smart PA38? If you're paying over £130 an hour for flying anything up to PA28 size, you're just wasting money. There are ways around it.
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Where are you paying that?
It's easy for me to say, I basically had my PPL paid for by the idiots at the MOD
It's easy if you've been in aviation all of your adult life. Imagine yourself doing something you've never done before or ever had any connection with nor any idea about. It's a daunting task just thinking about doing a PPL. I'm assuming that you are like me, probably serving or ex RAF, surrounded by aircraft and aircrew all of your working life. Just by the inevitable networking that goes on you get to know people who can do this that and the other for you if you can do this that and the other for them. Not everyone else has that background.
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Thing,
Firstly I apologise if my reply was a bit...fierce or blunt. I'm was coming to terms with the horror or ATPL funding (unless I manage to bag myself a job with BA in the morning) when I came across the thread.
I quite agree that it is a daunting experience for even the most confident of people. I have a brief but useful background on a UAS, but left with 70 hours with some fantastic teaching. I was lucky (sort of). When I tried to turn up at a civilian airfield for the first time I was terrified quite frankly. Square circuits still hurt my brain.
I didn't quite mean walking up to someone whilst they were getting out of their pride and joy and asking them for a few flights in exchange for fuel, but there are options out there.
Share groups exist where ab-initio trainees can use aircraft at sensible rates.
The point I was trying to get at - do not simply just go to your local flight school and take whatever the price is. Consider your options. A friend in Wales is going to do an intensive course in Yorkshire where he can get an hour with instruction at £130 an hour rather than £175 at his local.
Like I said there are alternatives such as the TomaHawk share at £80 an hour wet. I'd take that over a microlight at £75 any day.
Firstly I apologise if my reply was a bit...fierce or blunt. I'm was coming to terms with the horror or ATPL funding (unless I manage to bag myself a job with BA in the morning) when I came across the thread.
I quite agree that it is a daunting experience for even the most confident of people. I have a brief but useful background on a UAS, but left with 70 hours with some fantastic teaching. I was lucky (sort of). When I tried to turn up at a civilian airfield for the first time I was terrified quite frankly. Square circuits still hurt my brain.
I didn't quite mean walking up to someone whilst they were getting out of their pride and joy and asking them for a few flights in exchange for fuel, but there are options out there.
Share groups exist where ab-initio trainees can use aircraft at sensible rates.
The point I was trying to get at - do not simply just go to your local flight school and take whatever the price is. Consider your options. A friend in Wales is going to do an intensive course in Yorkshire where he can get an hour with instruction at £130 an hour rather than £175 at his local.
Like I said there are alternatives such as the TomaHawk share at £80 an hour wet. I'd take that over a microlight at £75 any day.
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Didn't think you were being blunt, it's just that I see and hear that way of thinking a lot with the reprobates that I fly with! Easy to forget that not everyone else has a squillion hours flying fast jets or what have you. 
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When budgeting for a PPL, you should always budget for the worst case scenario and not assume you will be able to get things cheaper or be able to borrow something.
If you budget low for the PPL and get 3/4 of the way through it and then run out of money, not only is that money wasted but when you decide to start up again in the future you will be re-learning some of it. Also, never assume 45 hours for a PPL. Where I learnt there were probably 20 or 30 students that I met up with regularly and not one of those students completed it in 45 hours. One or 2 of them are still on-going now.
When I started my PPL I budgeted on the fact it would take me 70 hours because I had read that that was sort of the upper end of the average. It took me 58 hours but to be honest, I probably could have knocked about 5 hours or so off of that but I had lots of lessons cancelled due to weather so I just did some circuits to keep in practise because I couldn't do what I was supposed to do.
Going to a club or training school that is slightly cheaper does not always save you money. I could have gone to another school and got an hour in a 152 for £130 instead of £155. But it would have cost me about £15 each way in travel and sometimes I would have had to stay up there costing me more money in accommodation so I would not have really been saving.
I actually missed one cost off my previous costs and that was ground exams which at the time was £20 per exam.
Borrow what you can but always be sure it is going to be available when you need it. In the UK, there are going to be times when you cannot fly and things get cancelled so if you are going to borrow an aircraft you will need to make sure it's available when you need it and maybe at short notice.
It is very normal for a club or school to charge a yearly membership fee. All the clubs I have approached charged some sort of fee.
Also, watch for added extras. I had fuel surcharge but didn't have to pay landing fees. A lot of places you have to pay landing fees and when you are practising circuits, that can amount to quite a bit.
If you budget low for the PPL and get 3/4 of the way through it and then run out of money, not only is that money wasted but when you decide to start up again in the future you will be re-learning some of it. Also, never assume 45 hours for a PPL. Where I learnt there were probably 20 or 30 students that I met up with regularly and not one of those students completed it in 45 hours. One or 2 of them are still on-going now.
When I started my PPL I budgeted on the fact it would take me 70 hours because I had read that that was sort of the upper end of the average. It took me 58 hours but to be honest, I probably could have knocked about 5 hours or so off of that but I had lots of lessons cancelled due to weather so I just did some circuits to keep in practise because I couldn't do what I was supposed to do.
Going to a club or training school that is slightly cheaper does not always save you money. I could have gone to another school and got an hour in a 152 for £130 instead of £155. But it would have cost me about £15 each way in travel and sometimes I would have had to stay up there costing me more money in accommodation so I would not have really been saving.
I actually missed one cost off my previous costs and that was ground exams which at the time was £20 per exam.
Borrow what you can but always be sure it is going to be available when you need it. In the UK, there are going to be times when you cannot fly and things get cancelled so if you are going to borrow an aircraft you will need to make sure it's available when you need it and maybe at short notice.
It is very normal for a club or school to charge a yearly membership fee. All the clubs I have approached charged some sort of fee.
Also, watch for added extras. I had fuel surcharge but didn't have to pay landing fees. A lot of places you have to pay landing fees and when you are practising circuits, that can amount to quite a bit.
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The costs don't appear to have changed much over the last 5 years from what I've seen. One way I can think of to save money on the PPL is to fly with a club that has a membership fee that includes circuit and landing charges. I spent over £2k on circuits and landings alone. It's not something I even considered before starting training.
There are some benefits to learning at busier commercial airports but you don't get any training benefit from watching jets take-off and land whilst paying £2.50/min.
If I were to do it all again I'd probably start with gliding and then take the SLMG/NPPL route and later upgrade as required to a full PPL. Won't ultimately save you much over a cheap straight PPL but it will give you a better range of experience and would probably be more fun.
There are some benefits to learning at busier commercial airports but you don't get any training benefit from watching jets take-off and land whilst paying £2.50/min.
If I were to do it all again I'd probably start with gliding and then take the SLMG/NPPL route and later upgrade as required to a full PPL. Won't ultimately save you much over a cheap straight PPL but it will give you a better range of experience and would probably be more fun.
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Cheap ! Or rip-off ?
It's all very well finding the cheapest deal but what do you get for this? Just what corners are being cut to achieve this aim ?
I have seen some of the results of such training one of who was not able to land a PA38 on what he described as the very short runway at EGTB.
The trouble is that the student knows next to nothing about flying when he starts and so is in no position to judge the quality of the training he is receiving or the state of the aircraft he is flying.
The bottom line is that there is a minimum cost to doing the job to an reasonable standard and some of the things written above suggest that all the costs are not being taken into account or corners are being cut to a point that an acceptable standard of training can't be achieved.
I have seen some of the results of such training one of who was not able to land a PA38 on what he described as the very short runway at EGTB.
The trouble is that the student knows next to nothing about flying when he starts and so is in no position to judge the quality of the training he is receiving or the state of the aircraft he is flying.
The bottom line is that there is a minimum cost to doing the job to an reasonable standard and some of the things written above suggest that all the costs are not being taken into account or corners are being cut to a point that an acceptable standard of training can't be achieved.
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John_TT, the price that you pay, like the cost of your training, should not be measured only in terms of quids.
Having been taught by very experienced fast jet instructors, at a military airfield with a huge runway and no landing fees, I know that I was very lucky, but you could be lucky too.
I'm now a member of three clubs, one of them Military, one Civil Service and one Civvy. Each have their own benefits.
Check your PMs
Having been taught by very experienced fast jet instructors, at a military airfield with a huge runway and no landing fees, I know that I was very lucky, but you could be lucky too.
I'm now a member of three clubs, one of them Military, one Civil Service and one Civvy. Each have their own benefits.
Check your PMs
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I learnt slowly (my own choice) over 2 years - flying within my means. Completed my PPL 1 year ago. I fly about the same amount per month now as I did during training, so I know my limitations. Over the extended time I flew 3 quite different types and had 2 main instructors, with some others from time to time.
I enjoyed the training!
"Ground School" can be all self taught at the moment (although that is becoming more structured so it might not be like that for ever). The only more formal classroom teaching I had was for briefings before / after lessons.
During my time I also did some aeros, got involved in doing some basic owner maintenance (mainly aircraft washing) and joined a group (yes - you can learn to fly in a Permit to Fly aircraft, that is in a group, but you probably need to marry your instructors daughter so you don't have to pay them fees
).
Took me 66 hours and cost about £11K all in, although I wasn't counting. That includes trial lessons, extra time needed to convert between types, relearn things forgotten and keep up currency (took me extra time to sit some exams) as well as landings, memberships, medical, exam fees.
At most places you are essentially charged for time in the air, so the only dissadvantage of being at a large international airport is that you might have to "orbit" if you are coming into land at the same time as a commercial operator. Landing fees at my "international airport" are actually less than at some smaller airports. However it is worth checking. I probably did 250 landings during training (i didn't count them at the beginning - hence the guess). Can be a good time to practice "steep turns"...
Some people do learn more quickly than others, but you give yourself the best chance at minimum hours if you do it quickly. Me - I was happy to spread the cost over time and I enjoyed the training so the extra time didn't bother me!
Should say - if you can, keep to as few instructors as possible. Clubs / schools will try to standardise as much as possible, but each instructor will have their own, slightly different way of doing things. Sometimes a change is necessary - perhaps that different way just clicks with you - but more likely it will confuse. Must say - all my instructors were brilliant, and complemented each other, but having a "primary" one helped a lot.
Best of luck
RR
I enjoyed the training!
"Ground School" can be all self taught at the moment (although that is becoming more structured so it might not be like that for ever). The only more formal classroom teaching I had was for briefings before / after lessons.
During my time I also did some aeros, got involved in doing some basic owner maintenance (mainly aircraft washing) and joined a group (yes - you can learn to fly in a Permit to Fly aircraft, that is in a group, but you probably need to marry your instructors daughter so you don't have to pay them fees
).Took me 66 hours and cost about £11K all in, although I wasn't counting. That includes trial lessons, extra time needed to convert between types, relearn things forgotten and keep up currency (took me extra time to sit some exams) as well as landings, memberships, medical, exam fees.
At most places you are essentially charged for time in the air, so the only dissadvantage of being at a large international airport is that you might have to "orbit" if you are coming into land at the same time as a commercial operator. Landing fees at my "international airport" are actually less than at some smaller airports. However it is worth checking. I probably did 250 landings during training (i didn't count them at the beginning - hence the guess). Can be a good time to practice "steep turns"...
Some people do learn more quickly than others, but you give yourself the best chance at minimum hours if you do it quickly. Me - I was happy to spread the cost over time and I enjoyed the training so the extra time didn't bother me!
Should say - if you can, keep to as few instructors as possible. Clubs / schools will try to standardise as much as possible, but each instructor will have their own, slightly different way of doing things. Sometimes a change is necessary - perhaps that different way just clicks with you - but more likely it will confuse. Must say - all my instructors were brilliant, and complemented each other, but having a "primary" one helped a lot.
Best of luck
RR
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The best and most accurate breakdown of ppl costings.
