Farnborough Airspace Proposal
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Fundamentally and despite any argument to the contrary this proposal by TAG has nothing to do with safety- it's all about maximising their asset value, nothing more and nothing less, they are a minority user of the airspace surrounding Farnborough and really ought to accept it- trying to influence matters by careful manipulation of statistics is disingenuous to say the least. The recent low level biz jet traffic south and west of the airfield of which I have observed an apparent marked increase, seems, on the whole to be arriving- not departing so the departure procedures would seem unrelated. I cannot see any simple reason for Farnborough traffic to be routed as has been the case recently, other than to somehow enhance their statistics in support of their application for airspace for which there is clearly no operational need. Based on the safety of other airspace users there is and can be no case for granting the requested areas.
On a different forum I came across a funny term (see subject above) to describe the phenomenon which TAG may be relying upon, carrying out this additional consultation. Revise the original proposal slightly, open the consultation, get fewer objections and Bob's your uncle.
I'm going to send in exactly the same response as last time, just so it's there.
/h88
I'm going to send in exactly the same response as last time, just so it's there.
/h88
120 movements on a weekday (Monday to Friday)? I don't think so. I have worked on the airfield perimeter for the last 3 years. Maybe 3 take-offs per hour, so cannot be many more landings due to parking limitations. Maybe these movements are outside normal working hours!
120 movements on a weekday (Monday to Friday)? I don't think so. I have worked on the airfield perimeter for the last 3 years. Maybe 3 take-offs per hour, so cannot be many more landings due to parking limitations. Maybe these movements are outside normal working hours!
In the 'in between' period I often sit in the tower at Fairoaks nowadays watching a continuous stream of Fanborough arrivals; Farnborough inform us of all inbound traffic on runway 24 and we limit the altitude of our departures to avoid conflicting with the Farnborough traffic.
I would often arrive at Farnborough at 6.45 am and aircraft would be sitting there with APUs running ready to get away asap after we opened and there would be inbounds holding close by when the radar came on line.
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Depends what times you are at work. Busiest periods when I worked in ATC there were 7 am - 8.30 am and 5 pm - 8pm with constant 'steady' traffic in between.
In the 'in between' period I often sit in the tower at Fairoaks nowadays watching a continuous stream of Fanborough arrivals; Farnborough inform us of all inbound traffic on runway 24 and we limit the altitude of our departures to avoid conflicting with the Farnborough traffic.
I would often arrive at Farnborough at 6.45 am and aircraft would be sitting there with APUs running ready to get away asap after we opened and there would be inbounds holding close by when the radar came on line.
In the 'in between' period I often sit in the tower at Fairoaks nowadays watching a continuous stream of Fanborough arrivals; Farnborough inform us of all inbound traffic on runway 24 and we limit the altitude of our departures to avoid conflicting with the Farnborough traffic.
I would often arrive at Farnborough at 6.45 am and aircraft would be sitting there with APUs running ready to get away asap after we opened and there would be inbounds holding close by when the radar came on line.
Thanks for the info.
If TAG were to be taxed for all of the airspace they want to grab, solely for their customers convenience, would they change their plans?
If someone brings in taxation for controlled airspace it would have to be for all not just odd bits. Would Heathrow be taxed? Would Biggin? or Exeter?
In 1981/2, the CAA and NATS (not Farnborough) wanted to put controlled airspace over Lasham with a base of 3,500ft.
Lasham objected and so for years, Southampton arrivals were forced to fly through small portions of what we now call Class G airspace until the Southampton CTAs could be re-designed.
Lasham and the BGA have always moaned and bitched about controlled airspace around them and any compromise suggested has been met with replies like 'well can we have (this bit) as well' or 'couldn't you move that boundary back by a couple of miles as it prevents us from tracking direct to various competition turning points'.
Whatever you do, whatever concessions you make, Lasham will always want more.
Lasham objected and so for years, Southampton arrivals were forced to fly through small portions of what we now call Class G airspace until the Southampton CTAs could be re-designed.
Lasham and the BGA have always moaned and bitched about controlled airspace around them and any compromise suggested has been met with replies like 'well can we have (this bit) as well' or 'couldn't you move that boundary back by a couple of miles as it prevents us from tracking direct to various competition turning points'.
Whatever you do, whatever concessions you make, Lasham will always want more.
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Recently, I was a bit bored and I opened up Planefinder to see what was about my area (Basingstoke). There had been a break in the weather and on that day it was basically sunny with broken cloud.
I was amazed to see approximately 40 gliders, plus a couple of tugs, in the air both to the north and south of where I live, approx 5 miles north of Lasham. My first thought was "how will Flybe cope with that?" on their flights into Southampton as many of their arrivals pass my house between Basingstoke and Lasham. It also occurred to me that not only would this be "awkward" for Flybe, the RAF fly helicopters more or less along the line of the M3 motorway to and from Odiham, probably at around 1,000 ft and of course there is also Popham in the vicinity.
I was amazed to see approximately 40 gliders, plus a couple of tugs, in the air both to the north and south of where I live, approx 5 miles north of Lasham. My first thought was "how will Flybe cope with that?" on their flights into Southampton as many of their arrivals pass my house between Basingstoke and Lasham. It also occurred to me that not only would this be "awkward" for Flybe, the RAF fly helicopters more or less along the line of the M3 motorway to and from Odiham, probably at around 1,000 ft and of course there is also Popham in the vicinity.
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Recently, I was a bit bored and I opened up Planefinder to see what was about my area (Basingstoke). There had been a break in the weather and on that day it was basically sunny with broken cloud.
I was amazed to see approximately 40 gliders, plus a couple of tugs, in the air both to the north and south of where I live, approx 5 miles north of Lasham. My first thought was "how will Flybe cope with that?" on their flights into Southampton as many of their arrivals pass my house between Basingstoke and Lasham. It also occurred to me that not only would this be "awkward" for Flybe, the RAF fly helicopters more or less along the line of the M3 motorway to and from Odiham, probably at around 1,000 ft and of course there is also Popham in the vicinity.
I was amazed to see approximately 40 gliders, plus a couple of tugs, in the air both to the north and south of where I live, approx 5 miles north of Lasham. My first thought was "how will Flybe cope with that?" on their flights into Southampton as many of their arrivals pass my house between Basingstoke and Lasham. It also occurred to me that not only would this be "awkward" for Flybe, the RAF fly helicopters more or less along the line of the M3 motorway to and from Odiham, probably at around 1,000 ft and of course there is also Popham in the vicinity.
Flybe/Southampton Traffic? They're in controlled airspace from the TMA to the Solent CTA/CTR so they are irrelevant to this discussion as Gliders at Lasham do not fly in controlled airspace.
Odiham have comprehensive LOAs with Lasham and the working relationship is very good, Odiham use Online Glider Network for situational awareness and very rarely are Chinooks in similar areas to Gliders, their standard operating height in the Lasham area is 500-1000ft, well clear of any gliders unless the Chinooks are in the Lasham Circuit
Popham traffic has just as much right to be there as Lasham traffic, on fly in days the whole local area can be full of microlights, the opposite is true with Gliding Competitions.
Those are the facts, not that this has much relevance as the issue here is Farnborough not Lasham's relationships with other airfields (which by the way are generally in support of Lasham's cause)
Above all, you should never be suprised with the density of traffic from Lasham, I hear their figures are well in excess of 50,000 movements a year putting them in the top 20 of all airfields in the UK, unsuprisingly therefore they are very much a big player in the south's airspace infrastructure and won't go down quietly.
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planesandthings: Get off your high horse. Just for a minute.
I was merely relating what I have seen frequently. This particular day saw an unusually high number of gliders. The area in which they were flying included the same patch of earth that the occasional Flybe aircraft fly through on their way to Southampton. I know this to be true as I often see them between my house and Lasham. Similarly, the corridor along which helicopters move to and from Odiham are between my house and Lasham. Again, I know this as I frequently see them (except for the odd occasion when they come over my house!)
My post was merely an observation, prompted by earlier posts and was in no way aiming to have a dig at Lasham gliding.
I was merely relating what I have seen frequently. This particular day saw an unusually high number of gliders. The area in which they were flying included the same patch of earth that the occasional Flybe aircraft fly through on their way to Southampton. I know this to be true as I often see them between my house and Lasham. Similarly, the corridor along which helicopters move to and from Odiham are between my house and Lasham. Again, I know this as I frequently see them (except for the odd occasion when they come over my house!)
My post was merely an observation, prompted by earlier posts and was in no way aiming to have a dig at Lasham gliding.
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planesandthings: Get off your high horse. Just for a minute.
I was merely relating what I have seen frequently. This particular day saw an unusually high number of gliders. The area in which they were flying included the same patch of earth that the occasional Flybe aircraft fly through on their way to Southampton. I know this to be true as I often see them between my house and Lasham. Similarly, the corridor along which helicopters move to and from Odiham are between my house and Lasham. Again, I know this as I frequently see them (except for the odd occasion when they come over my house!)
My post was merely an observation, prompted by earlier posts and was in no way aiming to have a dig at Lasham gliding.
I was merely relating what I have seen frequently. This particular day saw an unusually high number of gliders. The area in which they were flying included the same patch of earth that the occasional Flybe aircraft fly through on their way to Southampton. I know this to be true as I often see them between my house and Lasham. Similarly, the corridor along which helicopters move to and from Odiham are between my house and Lasham. Again, I know this as I frequently see them (except for the odd occasion when they come over my house!)
My post was merely an observation, prompted by earlier posts and was in no way aiming to have a dig at Lasham gliding.
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Flybe aircraft into Southampton are at about 10-12000' as they pass Lasham. There appeared to be a competition at Lasham on Saturday with a task involving turns at Lyneham and the Yeovil area. Looking at the gaggle, most were leaving Lasham somewhere between 3-4000'.
