stall warning and when to panic
Firefly:
Unless I'm misreading what you are putting the load factor increases as the secant of the angle, not the stall speed. The stall speed is the square root of the load factor.
IE the load factor in a level 60 degree turn is 1/cos60 which is 2. So you are pulling 2g in a level 60 degree turn. The stall speed will increase by the square root of 2 which is 1.414. So if stall speed in level flight is 50kts, youre stall speed in a level 60 banked turn is 70kts.
Unless I'm misreading what you are putting the load factor increases as the secant of the angle, not the stall speed. The stall speed is the square root of the load factor.
IE the load factor in a level 60 degree turn is 1/cos60 which is 2. So you are pulling 2g in a level 60 degree turn. The stall speed will increase by the square root of 2 which is 1.414. So if stall speed in level flight is 50kts, youre stall speed in a level 60 banked turn is 70kts.
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There are pilots who know the POH off by heart, and pilots who know their aircraft. They are rarely one and the same. It won't change.
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Wot UA said.
Stall speed increases with wing loading, but if you don't load the wings - by not maintaining level flight - i.e. descending, then the load factor doesn't increase nor does stall speed. You could do a 60 degree bank to final as long as you are not trying to maintain altitude.
do a 60 degree wingover and you can have near enough zero IAS and no stall warner.
Stall speed increases with wing loading, but if you don't load the wings - by not maintaining level flight - i.e. descending, then the load factor doesn't increase nor does stall speed. You could do a 60 degree bank to final as long as you are not trying to maintain altitude.
do a 60 degree wingover and you can have near enough zero IAS and no stall warner.
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Perhaps not Dave but you'd be surprised the amount of pilots out their who really don't understand that concept and wet themselves as soon as you bank more than 30deg in the circuit.
UA
UA
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Just to clarify this (whilst not wanting to get into heated argument!) as I feel woefully under-qualified here ... 
65kts on final turn. I'd then be looking for 60kts IAS on the final approach in the 152 with 2 stages of flap. If I need it, third stage keeping 60kts. Bearing in mind I have lots of tarmac in front of me, I'm happy with that.
The POH states 60-70kts (no flaps) and 55-65kts flaps down. With short field 54kts with 30 degrees flap selected.
For both types of landing, it goes on to say:
"Slightly higher approach speeds should be used under turbulent conditions"
I probably should have made it clear that 65kts was/is not my final approach speed.
I'm going to ask next Saturday about the 800ft thing ... I'm sure I've probably been told before, but can't recall the reasoning.
True but how many students are given the figures for approach and landing by their club and they turn out to be 5 or even more knots higher than the POH?
The POH states 60-70kts (no flaps) and 55-65kts flaps down. With short field 54kts with 30 degrees flap selected.
For both types of landing, it goes on to say:
"Slightly higher approach speeds should be used under turbulent conditions"
I probably should have made it clear that 65kts was/is not my final approach speed.
I'm going to ask next Saturday about the 800ft thing ... I'm sure I've probably been told before, but can't recall the reasoning.
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Perhaps not Dave but you'd be surprised the amount of pilots out their who really don't understand that concept and wet themselves as soon as you bank more than 30deg in the circuit.
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I feel woefully under-qualified here ...
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I'm only a 200 odd hour guy myself but if I heard the stall warner turning finals I think I would have been in 'I have control' mode, regardless of the experience of the handling pilot. It's your neck on the line as well.
I'm no expert, but these are all lessons I don't think will every leave me due to the fact they have been shouted at me so many times!!!!
This thread proves what I often say about aviation - "Operating an aircraft safely is quite simple. It's just that there are a lot of people around trying to make it incredibly complicated".
The place and time to find out about lower speed characteristics of an aircraft is at a (safe) altitude.
Correct "normal" approach speeds are 30% above the stall speed!
There is a difference between the "signs of an approaching stall" and the "identification of a full stall". One sign of an approaching stall is the stall warner operating. Typically the stall warner operates at 5 to 10 kts above the stall speed.
As has been said previously there is a difference between the stall warner momentarily sounding or doing so continuously.
In a correctly flown circuit you shouldn't have to exceed thirty degrees of bank and I wouldn't want low hour students doing so. If you find yourself in that position better to level the wings (or reduce bank angle) and Go Around. Once settled back at circuit height do some analysis to trouble shoot how you got in that position to avoid same on next approach.
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I'm only a 200 odd hour guy myself but if I heard the stall warner turning finals I think I would have been in 'I have control' mode, regardless of the experience of the handling pilot. It's your neck on the line as well.
I'm only a 200 odd hour guy myself but if I heard the stall warner turning finals I think I would have been in 'I have control' mode, regardless of the experience of the handling pilot. It's your neck on the line as well.
If you did that in my aircraft, I would tear your arm off and beat you to death with the bloody stump........
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Nonetheless, I warn my passengers under what circumstances it's normal to hear the stall warner, and if I were a passenger in something where it's normal for it to be sounding all the way round the final turn I would appreciate advance warning from the pilot!
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If you did that in my aircraft, I would tear your arm off and beat you to death with the bloody stump
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If you did that in my aircraft, I would tear your arm off and beat you to death with the bloody stump........
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And where in your vast experience as a pilot have you developedthe ability to jump in and take control or have learned the necessary skills to make the decision that you are in danger?
Those of us who have been teaching and examining for thousands of hours still have to make margin calls on that one.
Your action of an elbow in the chops while illegally taking command of an aircraft are likely to get you and the commander killed......
Those of us who have been teaching and examining for thousands of hours still have to make margin calls on that one.
Your action of an elbow in the chops while illegally taking command of an aircraft are likely to get you and the commander killed......
You would have to be quick as the 'I have control' would probably be accompanied by an elbow in the chops.
141 Every person in an aircraft must obey all lawful commands which the commander of
that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of
persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air
navigation.
that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of
persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air
navigation.
142 A person must not while in an aircraft:
(a) use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew
of the aircraft;
(b) behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting or disorderly manner towards a
member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(c) intentionally interfere with the performance by a member of the crew of the
aircraft of the crew member's duties.
(a) use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew
of the aircraft;
(b) behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting or disorderly manner towards a
member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(c) intentionally interfere with the performance by a member of the crew of the
aircraft of the crew member's duties.
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So the answer is let a deaf pilot spin you into the ground? I think an airspeed call (shout) would have been appropriate in this instance. x amount of hours shouldnt come into it.
The stall warner is there for a reason, if its constantly blurring during a turn you are approaching or at the stall. If the guy flying cant hear it and there is no visual indicator article 142 wont get you out the **** that is potentially developing.
The stall warner is there for a reason, if its constantly blurring during a turn you are approaching or at the stall. If the guy flying cant hear it and there is no visual indicator article 142 wont get you out the **** that is potentially developing.
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Tek now
Low hour duffer here also, but remember the POH is for gross weight which probably does not make much odds in a 152 with 2 folks in it, but flying it alone with 1/4 tanks probably leaves you 250-300lbs under gross which if I was flying I would knock 1mph off the approach speeds for every 80lbs I am undermax weight, not sure if this is the correct procedure but it does seem to get me in slower and pulled up quicker.
[SIZE=My advice is worth exactly what you pay for it[/SIZE]
The POH states 60-70kts (no flaps) and 55-65kts flaps down. With short field 54kts with 30 degrees flap selected.
[SIZE=My advice is worth exactly what you pay for it[/SIZE]