The ferrying of my new aircraft to California - a pictorial.
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Yes, that was expensive at somewhere around $6.20/gal, but I had no choice. A, I didn't have enough fuel to go to a smaller field, and B, if you don't uplift fuel they won't waive their overnight fee, so it negates any savings you might do by filling her cheaply. Think we filled 147 gals, if memory serves. All the FBO's at bigger airport charge a premium. These were not the worst, either. I've been quoted up to $8/gal at the real fancy ones. Normally, self serve is around $5.50/gal, but in Texas and some of the states closer to the Gulf one can find Avgas for under $5/gal at times. Cheapest I've ever seen was $4.50/gal. Avgas is normally around $1-1.5/gal more expensive than premium Mogas. These are the taxes levied at the pump. I guess even at $8/gal it's still cheaper than in Europe, so in that regard it's easier here. I could never afford having a twin in Europe. Or at least not afford to fly it much. What's the fuel price for Avgas in the UK now?
It's always cheaper to fly to smaller airfields with no fancy stuff and fill yourself up, but that needs to be balanced against having some conveniences. Many of these smaller airports are in smaller towns that might not have a car service or even a motel (if it's really small), so if one wants to spend the night, it's sometimes just easier to go to a bigger airport and suffer the handling/overnight fees. I've spent a few nights in my sleeping bag in the back of the Commander when I couldn't get any hotel/pickups. I have to say that the USA is pretty good even at the smaller airports in this regard - there's almost always a free courtesy car you can use and even the smallest towns tend to have some kind of motel and a fast food joint to clog up your arteries.
It's always cheaper to fly to smaller airfields with no fancy stuff and fill yourself up, but that needs to be balanced against having some conveniences. Many of these smaller airports are in smaller towns that might not have a car service or even a motel (if it's really small), so if one wants to spend the night, it's sometimes just easier to go to a bigger airport and suffer the handling/overnight fees. I've spent a few nights in my sleeping bag in the back of the Commander when I couldn't get any hotel/pickups. I have to say that the USA is pretty good even at the smaller airports in this regard - there's almost always a free courtesy car you can use and even the smallest towns tend to have some kind of motel and a fast food joint to clog up your arteries.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 7th Jul 2013 at 18:10.
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Avgas
Avgas is much more expensive here in the UK.
It averages around £1.95 Litre (Aprox £7.40 US Gallon) whereas your paying about $1.63 Litre @ $6.20 US Gal. (£1.09 Litre @ £4.16 US Gal) Interesting you mention Self-Serve. I havent experienced anything else here?
How do you get on with Maintenance flying/owning a Twin? Are the schedules more or less the same? You must have to budget a huge amount of cash for the engine fund(s).
I think in general, aviation is much more affordable in the US. Landing fees here in the UK vary enormously. From the large(ish) International Airports - Exeter £27.40 <1Ton, Inverness £17.50, Cambridge £25, Bristol £35 to name a few. Smaller GA fields vary from £5 - £20 depending on facilities.
It averages around £1.95 Litre (Aprox £7.40 US Gallon) whereas your paying about $1.63 Litre @ $6.20 US Gal. (£1.09 Litre @ £4.16 US Gal) Interesting you mention Self-Serve. I havent experienced anything else here?
How do you get on with Maintenance flying/owning a Twin? Are the schedules more or less the same? You must have to budget a huge amount of cash for the engine fund(s).
I think in general, aviation is much more affordable in the US. Landing fees here in the UK vary enormously. From the large(ish) International Airports - Exeter £27.40 <1Ton, Inverness £17.50, Cambridge £25, Bristol £35 to name a few. Smaller GA fields vary from £5 - £20 depending on facilities.
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Anytime one buys an old aircraft where the previous owner has skimped on the upkeep for financial reasons, which is the case with almost all aircraft that get sold, one is in for a couple of steep annuals. Once caught up, so to speak, the operating costs go down. My old Commander was no different. She was extremely reliable the last year, I have to say. And I've put a lot of hours on her in the 2.5 years I've owned her. We've been all across the US and even to Canada. The reason the last annual was hefty was because I had to do some metal work and comply with a few AD's and overhaul the props and the magnetos. Everything else was chicken feed compared to that. If it hadn't been for those things, the annual would have been less than $4K, probably.
I'm sure this new one will be similar. Pretty much right off the bat I'll have to do the engines, so that's a very big cost. The annuals are also a bit more complex on the Aerostar. The last one was about $10K, so I should assume next years annual will be in that region, barring any big things. They can probably be worked down to around $5-6K on a well maintained specimen, even less if you do owner-assisted ones.
Engine funds - I don't do them.
Far too depressing - I just grunt and suffer. And I try to delay it as long as possible - top overhauls etc. I'm not afraid of flying over TBO if they're behaving and not making metal. And in the case of my Commander I'm selling now, it will be sold with engines over TBO. So in essence, except for the loss in value that entails, I didn't have any engine costs at all. Well, that's not entirely true because I did top both engines, but you catch my drift. An engine O/H is never going to increase the value of the hull by more than the cost to O/H, so financially it almost always makes more sense to sell the aircraft with the engines not done.
I'm sure this new one will be similar. Pretty much right off the bat I'll have to do the engines, so that's a very big cost. The annuals are also a bit more complex on the Aerostar. The last one was about $10K, so I should assume next years annual will be in that region, barring any big things. They can probably be worked down to around $5-6K on a well maintained specimen, even less if you do owner-assisted ones.
Engine funds - I don't do them.
Far too depressing - I just grunt and suffer. And I try to delay it as long as possible - top overhauls etc. I'm not afraid of flying over TBO if they're behaving and not making metal. And in the case of my Commander I'm selling now, it will be sold with engines over TBO. So in essence, except for the loss in value that entails, I didn't have any engine costs at all. Well, that's not entirely true because I did top both engines, but you catch my drift. An engine O/H is never going to increase the value of the hull by more than the cost to O/H, so financially it almost always makes more sense to sell the aircraft with the engines not done.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 8th Jul 2013 at 07:57.
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Aerostar makes complete sense!
I had the idea to see what was going on with you after seen you were selling the old gal... I made the mistake of starting to read this thread and just like a great novel, I could not stop reading it!
Congratulations on the new bird! The Aerostar design indeed is an interesting story, somewhere must be an Aerostar historian buff like Barry Coleman who would add to what I have noticed about the first and the last airplane Ted Smith designed (and made to production).
If you look closely at the "blue goose" (the very first ever Aero Commander) also known as the L-3805 (one of the few prototypes that were also certified and even sold) also the one used for the stunt where they flew from Bethany Oklahoma to DC on one engine (the prop was not even bolted, it was inside the aircraft) well my friend it IS the nose and fuselage of an Aerostar!
It seems he drifted from the original design with later models, but eventually came back to it... so your transition from a 520 to an Aerostar makes perfect sense!
Here is a picture and see what you think, meanwhile...
Buena suerte con la nueva novia!
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
(I apologize if this already has shown up... not on my end...)
Congratulations on the new bird! The Aerostar design indeed is an interesting story, somewhere must be an Aerostar historian buff like Barry Coleman who would add to what I have noticed about the first and the last airplane Ted Smith designed (and made to production).
If you look closely at the "blue goose" (the very first ever Aero Commander) also known as the L-3805 (one of the few prototypes that were also certified and even sold) also the one used for the stunt where they flew from Bethany Oklahoma to DC on one engine (the prop was not even bolted, it was inside the aircraft) well my friend it IS the nose and fuselage of an Aerostar!
It seems he drifted from the original design with later models, but eventually came back to it... so your transition from a 520 to an Aerostar makes perfect sense!
Here is a picture and see what you think, meanwhile...
Buena suerte con la nueva novia!
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
(I apologize if this already has shown up... not on my end...)
Last edited by Peter Bichier; 9th Jul 2013 at 22:40.
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Peter - you missed the opportunity to buy the 520!
Well, just an update.
I just dropped the plane off for dual engine overhaul two weeks ago. Flew the engines 420hrs over TBO (to about 2200hrs) and they still ran fine with no squawks and would probably have gone on for quite a bit longer. What made me decide to do it in the end was nothing in particular. One reason was I had put newly O/H props on about a month ago (from another Aerostar that a guy is rebuilding into a turboprop single), and ever since I swapped, the left engines rpm took extra long to come up on T/O. It was lagging about 2-300rpm behind the right all the way up until rotation. It did always come up in the end, but was a little unsettling the first times until I knew the score. Couldn't really figure out what it was as the dome pressure etc all checked out. Consensus seem to be that it probably had something to do with oil pressure or oil sludge in the engine etc. The other factor was the anaemic climb after 15500-17500ft. This is more a turbo problem, but still, they're part of it. Also, the left engine was starting to show oil pressures at the very bottom of the green arc and consuming a little more. All in all, I thought it was time. And with the sale of my old plane, I had some cash to put in towards the overhaul.
In the end I decided to go with a shop called One Stop Aviation in CA. They have a good reputation and gave a good quote. $23,675.00 for overhaul incl. accessories. Thats pretty competitive. Add to this the turbos at around $1600/piece (there's 4 of them), installing GAMI injectors, overhauling the wastegates, oil scavenger pumps, NDT engine mounts, hoses, airboxes and labour, and we're looking at at least $60-65K for the overhaul. But that's the price you pay to play, I suppose. Comparably, this is not that bad all things considered, but still a h**l of a lot of money.
It's probably going to take another month or so before she's done, and it will probably take another month before I've managed to pay it! I've had no real problems with her in the short period of about 70hrs I've owned her. And we've already done quite a few really long range tours (one to NY and back). A leaking O-ring, but that's about it.
I hope she stays good.
Well, just an update.
I just dropped the plane off for dual engine overhaul two weeks ago. Flew the engines 420hrs over TBO (to about 2200hrs) and they still ran fine with no squawks and would probably have gone on for quite a bit longer. What made me decide to do it in the end was nothing in particular. One reason was I had put newly O/H props on about a month ago (from another Aerostar that a guy is rebuilding into a turboprop single), and ever since I swapped, the left engines rpm took extra long to come up on T/O. It was lagging about 2-300rpm behind the right all the way up until rotation. It did always come up in the end, but was a little unsettling the first times until I knew the score. Couldn't really figure out what it was as the dome pressure etc all checked out. Consensus seem to be that it probably had something to do with oil pressure or oil sludge in the engine etc. The other factor was the anaemic climb after 15500-17500ft. This is more a turbo problem, but still, they're part of it. Also, the left engine was starting to show oil pressures at the very bottom of the green arc and consuming a little more. All in all, I thought it was time. And with the sale of my old plane, I had some cash to put in towards the overhaul.
In the end I decided to go with a shop called One Stop Aviation in CA. They have a good reputation and gave a good quote. $23,675.00 for overhaul incl. accessories. Thats pretty competitive. Add to this the turbos at around $1600/piece (there's 4 of them), installing GAMI injectors, overhauling the wastegates, oil scavenger pumps, NDT engine mounts, hoses, airboxes and labour, and we're looking at at least $60-65K for the overhaul. But that's the price you pay to play, I suppose. Comparably, this is not that bad all things considered, but still a h**l of a lot of money.
It's probably going to take another month or so before she's done, and it will probably take another month before I've managed to pay it! I've had no real problems with her in the short period of about 70hrs I've owned her. And we've already done quite a few really long range tours (one to NY and back). A leaking O-ring, but that's about it.
I hope she stays good.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 6th Oct 2013 at 20:50.
Hi Adam,
thought it might be a good idea after some of your posts. Hope you'll be fine now with the newly overhauled engines.
So back to the Commander for a few or did you sell it already?
thought it might be a good idea after some of your posts. Hope you'll be fine now with the newly overhauled engines.
So back to the Commander for a few or did you sell it already?
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The Commander is tentatively sold. I have a buyer who's put down a deposit. She's still in my possession, though. In fact, I just flew her the other day. Took her up for a little spin just to keep the engines in good shape. She flies like a dream. Very different than the Aerostar, and it took a few landings to get back into the groove. But what a great plane. I had a 15-20kts headwind taking off from Hawthorne the other day and this old girl climbed out like some demented angel. I was at 1000ft by the end of the rwy, almost. Insane. I had forgotten what an excellent bush plane she is. A lumbering, roomy bush plane. No chance of being at 1000ft at the end of the threshold in the Aerostar!
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Adam
Thanks from me for your posts too Love the AeroStar especially the one with the Machen conversion which are real hot rods.
They were going to make a jet conversion which I believe the designer had originally designed the aircraft to go jet at the start but do not know what happened with that conversion?
Pace
Thanks from me for your posts too
Love the AeroStar especially the one with the Machen conversion which are real hot rods.They were going to make a jet conversion which I believe the designer had originally designed the aircraft to go jet at the start but do not know what happened with that conversion?
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In fact, I just flew her the other day.
I was doing some multi refresher SE on the VOR approach!
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Correct, she's back at El Monte.
Pace - Aeostar Corp showed off their jet prototype last year and it has flown. There's talk of certifying it. It has two small P&W fanjets and as you can see in the clip around 5:10, it climbs at 5000ft/min showing 190kts IAS! Real little pocket rocket.
Pace - Aeostar Corp showed off their jet prototype last year and it has flown. There's talk of certifying it. It has two small P&W fanjets and as you can see in the clip around 5:10, it climbs at 5000ft/min showing 190kts IAS! Real little pocket rocket.
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I live roughly downwind abeam the tower for 19. With my windows open, there's no mistaking that ship for anything else. It's a good spot, on Sunday I sat out front and watched Gabe do short approaches in the Stearman.
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Oh, great! Yeah, she is loud with those augmentor tubes. I've gotten noise violations from Long Beach.
Gabe is a good pilot and handles that Stearman like it's a little aerobat. Every time I'm at the airport, he's always there. I almost think he lives there.
Gabe is a good pilot and handles that Stearman like it's a little aerobat. Every time I'm at the airport, he's always there. I almost think he lives there.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 3rd Nov 2013 at 14:20.
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You mention purchasing this aircraft due to fuel economy, speed, pressurization, etc. However you dont mention why you chose a twin over a pressurized single. Just curious as to why?
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Aircraft ownership has its ups and downs and is not always for the faint of heart. It sure as h*ll can be a time eater.
After a 7 month long wait is was time to fire her up with two newly overhauled engines. I loaded in my CFII with me (as I hadn't flown for almost 5 months) and off we went. Box climb above the airport up to 2000ft.
Engines oil pressure barely in the green at full power, and well below green on both engines at cruise. Right engine runs much hotter than left, but otherwise behaving. Cut it short after 20mins and land. Manage to do a good landing after being away for 5 months, which pleased me.
When they pull oil filters, the left engine showed excessive aluminium and steel that my mechanic was not happy with. Engine was sent back to overhauler for further inspection. Turns out there's something called an oil jet that directs oil to the bottom of the pistons for cooling on the S1A5. The one on cylinder 3 had come loose from the oil galley and created a gaping hole - that was the reason the engine could not make oil pressure. The metal in filter came from case damage as the oil jet nozzle exited. They decided to replace case and crank. Right engine was suspected to have the oil jet thingys mis-torqued as well, so it was also opened up for precautionary reasons.
At least they've been very speedy in rectifying it and it is part of warranty. I should be able to do new test flight end of this week if all goes to plan. I hope all goes well then. I'm done waiting.
After a 7 month long wait is was time to fire her up with two newly overhauled engines. I loaded in my CFII with me (as I hadn't flown for almost 5 months) and off we went. Box climb above the airport up to 2000ft.
Engines oil pressure barely in the green at full power, and well below green on both engines at cruise. Right engine runs much hotter than left, but otherwise behaving. Cut it short after 20mins and land. Manage to do a good landing after being away for 5 months, which pleased me.
When they pull oil filters, the left engine showed excessive aluminium and steel that my mechanic was not happy with. Engine was sent back to overhauler for further inspection. Turns out there's something called an oil jet that directs oil to the bottom of the pistons for cooling on the S1A5. The one on cylinder 3 had come loose from the oil galley and created a gaping hole - that was the reason the engine could not make oil pressure. The metal in filter came from case damage as the oil jet nozzle exited. They decided to replace case and crank. Right engine was suspected to have the oil jet thingys mis-torqued as well, so it was also opened up for precautionary reasons.
At least they've been very speedy in rectifying it and it is part of warranty. I should be able to do new test flight end of this week if all goes to plan. I hope all goes well then. I'm done waiting.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 13th May 2014 at 15:15.
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Very interesting to follow your Commander and Aerostar ownership, Adam. How is the Aerostar coming along now?
I have a few hours in one, they're great planes!
I have a few hours in one, they're great planes!