Keeping gliding options open from 2015
Thread Starter
Keeping gliding options open from 2015
I'd be grateful for any advice. I've spent ages reading the BGA website but I'm little wiser!
I'm in my mid fifties and stopped flying gliders about ten years ago. At that point I had a Silver C and a BI rating. I also had the BGA issued "Glider Pilot's Licence" for what it was worth!
I've always had it in mind to get back in the cockpit but I'm unlikely to do that before the new licence comes into effect in 2015.
What is the best course of action to keep my options open?
Obviously I realise I will need significant dual flying before going solo again but I would prefer to avoid having to retake exams etc.
Thanks.
I'm in my mid fifties and stopped flying gliders about ten years ago. At that point I had a Silver C and a BI rating. I also had the BGA issued "Glider Pilot's Licence" for what it was worth!
I've always had it in mind to get back in the cockpit but I'm unlikely to do that before the new licence comes into effect in 2015.
What is the best course of action to keep my options open?
Obviously I realise I will need significant dual flying before going solo again but I would prefer to avoid having to retake exams etc.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
I was advised by the BGA that your glider licence never expires, I completed my Silver 'C' and was considering starting again after 30+ years, when I contacted the BGA they had my details on file and advised it was a case of training as required to solo again.
I would have expected that to be the case in the past but I had understood (maybe wrongly) that you needed to be current to migrate to the new legal licence.
Obviously currently there is no legal requirement to have any kind of licence to fly a glider but that is going to change.
Also, I don't understand the reference to "Annex II"
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TF, I don’t know if anybody knows for certain for your circumstances, but your best plan might be to get current again soon, so that your BGA licence can be converted to an EASA licence by what would then be “grandfather rights” without further tests and examinations, before April 2015. Don’t leave it to the last minute.
The reference to Annex 2 is to certain old glider types (listed in Annex 2 of the relevant legislation) which will be able to be flown after 2015 without an EASA licence. It would be rather restrictive. I don’t see how you could get to fly one after 2015 if you had not already become current again – your retraining would be on current (Annex 1) gliders, and to resolo I would expect you would have to do that on the gliding club’s training glider, which would be Annex 1.
But somebody else may know better.
HTH.
Chris N
The reference to Annex 2 is to certain old glider types (listed in Annex 2 of the relevant legislation) which will be able to be flown after 2015 without an EASA licence. It would be rather restrictive. I don’t see how you could get to fly one after 2015 if you had not already become current again – your retraining would be on current (Annex 1) gliders, and to resolo I would expect you would have to do that on the gliding club’s training glider, which would be Annex 1.
But somebody else may know better.
HTH.
Chris N
Thread Starter
TF, I don’t know if anybody knows for certain for your circumstances, but your best plan might be to get current again soon, so that your BGA licence can be converted to an EASA licence by what would then be “grandfather rights” without further tests and examinations, before April 2015. Don’t leave it to the last minute.
My current plan was to get back into gliding in about five years time. I don't fully understand the proposed conversion process but there seemed to be requirements for log book evidence to be signed by a club CFI etc.
Not relevant to me but what would happen in the case of somebody who was current but flew independently of a BGA club? I know the BGA like to think they have a monopoly and total control but actually they don't!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For you, then you will have to take your chance and find out eventually what will be needed. Don’t be surprised if it is not only flying retraining already discussed, but also EASA examinations and flight test.
For your last query, again I don’t know for certain but if current and they have a BGA licence I believe that they could convert, They might find that easier if they were to join a BGA club at the time. They couldn’t reasonably expect the BGA to work for their conversion if they are not members of a BGA club. Their alternative AIUI would be to continue flying but only in Annex 2 gliders.
As for your last comment, you evidently have a biased and distorted view of those of us in the BGA. We do not think we have a monopoly, some of us have over the years been involved in helping non-BGA clubs to join but certainly we could not make them. I think I know a lot more about that than you are likely to, and certainly I know more than you give any credit for.
Chris N
For your last query, again I don’t know for certain but if current and they have a BGA licence I believe that they could convert, They might find that easier if they were to join a BGA club at the time. They couldn’t reasonably expect the BGA to work for their conversion if they are not members of a BGA club. Their alternative AIUI would be to continue flying but only in Annex 2 gliders.
As for your last comment, you evidently have a biased and distorted view of those of us in the BGA. We do not think we have a monopoly, some of us have over the years been involved in helping non-BGA clubs to join but certainly we could not make them. I think I know a lot more about that than you are likely to, and certainly I know more than you give any credit for.
Chris N
Thread Starter
As for your last comment, you evidently have a biased and distorted view of those of us in the BGA. We do not think we have a monopoly, some of us have over the years been involved in helping non-BGA clubs to join but certainly we could not make them. I think I know a lot more about that than you are likely to, and certainly I know more than you give any credit for.
Re your last paragraph:
No, not at all. I was always a member of a BGA club and regularly visited a couple of others. However I could see both sides. At the time I was very involved, at the highest levels, with my own professional body which was in a similar position to the BGA. You didn't have to be a member and we didn't have any statutory powers but did our best to gloss over that!
To convert you will need Bronze badge + cross country endorsement & certified logbook evidence of previous launches to gain equivalent launch rating (& a medical of course.) It is likely that the person certifying your logbook evidence & signing the conversion form will have to be the club CFI (ie head of training.)
There may or may not be a currency requirement. I'm betting not, & that you would be issued with an LAPL(S) or SPL but that you would have to fulfil EASA sailplane recency requirements before exercising the privileges.
If you don't manage to convert in time you can still fly EASA gliders as an unlicensed student at an ATO, effectively a BGA club. You would be under the supervision of an instructor, ie local soaring in the same way as a power pilot does solo circuit practice. Your power licence will give you about half off the 15 hours minimum training to get a sailplane licence. Some exams are common to all aircraft types, you would have to take the sailplane versions of the others.
Once you are licenced there would be no requirement to operate within a BGA club. You could self launch off a farm strip or aerotow behind a qualified tug pilot if you wanted to, but the rolling recency requirement, including two training flights with an instructor in the previous 24 months, would still apply.
There may or may not be a currency requirement. I'm betting not, & that you would be issued with an LAPL(S) or SPL but that you would have to fulfil EASA sailplane recency requirements before exercising the privileges.
If you don't manage to convert in time you can still fly EASA gliders as an unlicensed student at an ATO, effectively a BGA club. You would be under the supervision of an instructor, ie local soaring in the same way as a power pilot does solo circuit practice. Your power licence will give you about half off the 15 hours minimum training to get a sailplane licence. Some exams are common to all aircraft types, you would have to take the sailplane versions of the others.
Once you are licenced there would be no requirement to operate within a BGA club. You could self launch off a farm strip or aerotow behind a qualified tug pilot if you wanted to, but the rolling recency requirement, including two training flights with an instructor in the previous 24 months, would still apply.
Thread Starter
To convert you will need Bronze badge + cross country endorsement & certified logbook evidence of previous launches to gain equivalent launch rating (& a medical of course.) It is likely that the person certifying your logbook evidence & signing the conversion form will have to be the club CFI (ie head of training.)
There may or may not be a currency requirement. I'm betting not, & that you would be issued with an LAPL(S) or SPL but that you would have to fulfil EASA sailplane recency requirements before exercising the privileges.
There may or may not be a currency requirement. I'm betting not, & that you would be issued with an LAPL(S) or SPL but that you would have to fulfil EASA sailplane recency requirements before exercising the privileges.
The CFI of my former club (who signed off by BI acceptance etc) has sadly died and I've never even met the club's current incumbent, even if he would be allowed to do it for a non member.
Also, I don't have a power licence. One additional reason for not wanting to lose what I have got is to get credit towards a power licence if I ever wanted to go down that route in the future
Last edited by Thoughtful_Flyer; 25th Jun 2013 at 06:15.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 61
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in a similar position - Silver 'C', BGA Glider Pilot Licence but haven't flown gliders for 4-5 years.
Though no-one has given me a definitive answer the current best "guess" is that, when the new rules come into force, there will be a transition period - during which anyone who meets the requirements (including currency) will be able to get the EASA licence as a paperwork (plus payment) exercise.
If you wait until after the transition period then it's likely there will be training requirements / exams / ... needed.
I'm going to pay for a week course, to get current again in a club glider, and then apply for the EASA licence - seems the safest course of action to me.
OC619
Though no-one has given me a definitive answer the current best "guess" is that, when the new rules come into force, there will be a transition period - during which anyone who meets the requirements (including currency) will be able to get the EASA licence as a paperwork (plus payment) exercise.
If you wait until after the transition period then it's likely there will be training requirements / exams / ... needed.
I'm going to pay for a week course, to get current again in a club glider, and then apply for the EASA licence - seems the safest course of action to me.
OC619
Thread Starter
I'm going to pay for a week course, to get current again in a club glider, and then apply for the EASA licence - seems the safest course of action to me.
Given that the BGA must (presumably) have all the evidence on file from my bronze, cross country endorsement, silver and "licence" why does it need to be certified again?
The cynic in me (and ChrisN won't like this!) wonders if the BGA has a policy of only helping those currently in an affiliated club and making it hard / impossible for others?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 61
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Both the clubs I'm considering flying at will include 3 months membership and affiliation in the price of the course - so the CFI will (hopefully) be happy to certify and the BGA will be happy I'm affiliated.
At least that's how I'm hoping it will work.
OC619
At least that's how I'm hoping it will work.
OC619
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Inverness-shire
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi TF
Most gliding clubs I know keep some form of records of launches and hours flown (if for no better reason than being able to charge for launches and flying time). Your old club may therefore have enough information to be able to check sample entries in your log book.
Even if you're not a member any more the current CFI may be willing to sign off at least some of your flying on that basis. There's no harm in asking!
I know my current CFI won't be in a position to verify all my 3000-odd launches spread over 30 years at several different gliding clubs in several different countries! Ultimately responsibility for logbook accuracy rests with the applicant. I believe that in power/commercial flying, people have been prosecuted for forgery/uttering false documents when they've been caught fiddling logbooks so I guess the same could apply to glider pilots applying for the new licence.
We will be having to apply to the CAA/EASA and not the BGA for this new ****** licence. So I guess that even if the BGA has the information, we will still have to supply the details of gliding certificates (date, number, copy of the little green FAI book?) to EASA.
Most gliding clubs I know keep some form of records of launches and hours flown (if for no better reason than being able to charge for launches and flying time). Your old club may therefore have enough information to be able to check sample entries in your log book.
Even if you're not a member any more the current CFI may be willing to sign off at least some of your flying on that basis. There's no harm in asking!
I know my current CFI won't be in a position to verify all my 3000-odd launches spread over 30 years at several different gliding clubs in several different countries! Ultimately responsibility for logbook accuracy rests with the applicant. I believe that in power/commercial flying, people have been prosecuted for forgery/uttering false documents when they've been caught fiddling logbooks so I guess the same could apply to glider pilots applying for the new licence.
We will be having to apply to the CAA/EASA and not the BGA for this new ****** licence. So I guess that even if the BGA has the information, we will still have to supply the details of gliding certificates (date, number, copy of the little green FAI book?) to EASA.
Last edited by astir 8; 26th Jun 2013 at 11:06.
You need certified logbook evidence for each launch endorsement (winch/car, aerotow, bungee & self-launch) you want to include on an EASA sailplane licence during the conversion.
You will be asking somebody to put their name to a legal document attesting to the bona fides of some bloke they only met 5 minutes ago, on the basis of a few dog-eared 10 year old documents. They're unlikely to have launch records from 10 years ago so it would probably help if there are people who remember you. I'm sure the BGA & clubs would like to be helpful but a helicopter instructor was recently sent to prison for being too helpful.
OC619, your best guess is the definitive answer. I recommend the comversion guide from this BGA web page.
You will be asking somebody to put their name to a legal document attesting to the bona fides of some bloke they only met 5 minutes ago, on the basis of a few dog-eared 10 year old documents. They're unlikely to have launch records from 10 years ago so it would probably help if there are people who remember you. I'm sure the BGA & clubs would like to be helpful but a helicopter instructor was recently sent to prison for being too helpful.
OC619, your best guess is the definitive answer. I recommend the comversion guide from this BGA web page.
Thread Starter
OC619, your best guess is the definitive answer. I recommend the comversion guide from this BGA web page.