How did you justify the cost of the PPL?
As several posters, have pointed out, it's not just the cost of the PPL, but also the subsequent costs.
I was very lucky in that my training didn't cost me anything (RAF Flying Scholarship followed by joining a UAS), but when I was bringing up a family and money was scarce, I was still able to fly, almost for free, by instructing in gliders and flying tow planes. I'm sure that if micro-lights were available back then, I would have gone that route.
Now that my family is adult and I have more money to spend on (frivolous) hobbies, I am able to do more flying, but I would never be able to justify it in financial terms. The justification comes from the memories I have. Examples of recent memorable flights that will stick with me forever include being 16,000' over Mt. Cook in a Duo Discus, flying a Spitfire and doing a run-in and break in a Vampire.
When I was discussing (not complaining about) the eye-watering costs of warbird flying, a Kiwi pilot friend was quick to point out "Remember, there are no pockets in a shroud, mate."
So my advice to anyone who wants to fly, is find the money and do it. The experiences and memories are worth the costs.
I was very lucky in that my training didn't cost me anything (RAF Flying Scholarship followed by joining a UAS), but when I was bringing up a family and money was scarce, I was still able to fly, almost for free, by instructing in gliders and flying tow planes. I'm sure that if micro-lights were available back then, I would have gone that route.
Now that my family is adult and I have more money to spend on (frivolous) hobbies, I am able to do more flying, but I would never be able to justify it in financial terms. The justification comes from the memories I have. Examples of recent memorable flights that will stick with me forever include being 16,000' over Mt. Cook in a Duo Discus, flying a Spitfire and doing a run-in and break in a Vampire.
When I was discussing (not complaining about) the eye-watering costs of warbird flying, a Kiwi pilot friend was quick to point out "Remember, there are no pockets in a shroud, mate."
So my advice to anyone who wants to fly, is find the money and do it. The experiences and memories are worth the costs.
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As a hobby it cannot possibly be "justified" - as everyone has said.
It is no use trying to explain it to parents or partner or girl/boy friend either. If they get it, they get it. If they don't, they don't, and never will. (I personally still find it astonishing that not everybody has a burning ambition to be a pilot).
Another way to understand the OP's question is to think about how the costs can be justified in terms of "How on earth can it be that expensive? Surely I'm being ripped off?" Nope - it really is that expensive, and pretty much everybody in recreational aviation is in it because they love it, not to make money (me included).
Gliding and micros are a bit less expensive and are good routes if you want to get airborne and don't mind the restrictions that go with them.
It is no use trying to explain it to parents or partner or girl/boy friend either. If they get it, they get it. If they don't, they don't, and never will. (I personally still find it astonishing that not everybody has a burning ambition to be a pilot).
Another way to understand the OP's question is to think about how the costs can be justified in terms of "How on earth can it be that expensive? Surely I'm being ripped off?" Nope - it really is that expensive, and pretty much everybody in recreational aviation is in it because they love it, not to make money (me included).
Gliding and micros are a bit less expensive and are good routes if you want to get airborne and don't mind the restrictions that go with them.
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I guess you've taken nice a step up in your weekly take home pay, I had something similar when I started flying, ended up with an extra €100 in my pocket at the end of the week. I decided that I'd spend that on flying, I had gotten used to living on the lower pay so just continued with the same lifestyle plus the flying.
Is there any cheaper options than £150/hr, I flew the Tecnam P2002 which is a fine airplane and on average cost me £85/hr. I'd recommend a flying club rather than a school, generally a lot cheaper and a nicer environment.
Is there any cheaper options than £150/hr, I flew the Tecnam P2002 which is a fine airplane and on average cost me £85/hr. I'd recommend a flying club rather than a school, generally a lot cheaper and a nicer environment.
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Few people can afford it. I certainly couldn't when I did my PPL in 1978. But it's the best money I ever spent. It's given me decades of flying fun, doing and seeing things very few others get to do and see.
And post PPL get into a group. I was lucky in that my interest isn't touring but visiting farm strips and aerobatting, so a share in a lovely Chipmunk served well. If that hadn't been available, I'd have gone for an LAA aerobatic type - even cheaper than the Chippy!
And post PPL get into a group. I was lucky in that my interest isn't touring but visiting farm strips and aerobatting, so a share in a lovely Chipmunk served well. If that hadn't been available, I'd have gone for an LAA aerobatic type - even cheaper than the Chippy!
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How can you justify keeping a wife or for that matter loosing one 
Will make flying seem like chicken feed !
You could always do what I do and go commercial then you get someone to pay you to fly their expensive business jets around the sky!
Life is short grab what you can and above all have a passion long winged or short skirted they are both expensive
Pace
Will make flying seem like chicken feed !
You could always do what I do and go commercial then you get someone to pay you to fly their expensive business jets around the sky!
Life is short grab what you can and above all have a passion long winged or short skirted they are both expensive
Pace
What, no-one told you to fly a hot air balloon yet?
The only thing you know about the flight before you take off is the take-off site.
The most completely useless form of aviation, but it does have the best view.
Oh, and there are always sub 115 microlights, and let me see, powered parachutes, and helicopters
Have you actually tried a trial lesson yet? Might be a good investment to try at least a glider, a microlight, and an SEP.
Don't be fooled by the minimum hours for any of them. All licences take the time needed for competency.
The only thing you know about the flight before you take off is the take-off site.
The most completely useless form of aviation, but it does have the best view.
Oh, and there are always sub 115 microlights, and let me see, powered parachutes, and helicopters
Have you actually tried a trial lesson yet? Might be a good investment to try at least a glider, a microlight, and an SEP.
Don't be fooled by the minimum hours for any of them. All licences take the time needed for competency.
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Anyway at your age of 73 are there any women you know who would worry about a french letter.
At the age of 73 I am still in the camp of flying being dangerous & sex being safe. Or perhaps that's just my flying
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I didn't justify it, just set a budget for year 1 of what I could afford. I know that the things I regret most are things I didn't do, opportunities I didn't take rather than things I did which perhaps didn't work out. I have wanted to learn fly for 20+ years but never had the combination of time and money until recently, I do wish I had started learning a few years ago even though I knew I couldn't commit much time to it.
If it helps it is much easier to learn when you are younger than say when retired which for many folks is when they finally have the time and the money available.
I dont think you can justify it as such and if you are looking to maybe its the wrong approach. If its something you want to do and you have the money to do it then go for it. You can always stop if needed but just make sure its something you are doing because you want to and enjoy it.
Good luck whatever you decide.
If it helps it is much easier to learn when you are younger than say when retired which for many folks is when they finally have the time and the money available.
I dont think you can justify it as such and if you are looking to maybe its the wrong approach. If its something you want to do and you have the money to do it then go for it. You can always stop if needed but just make sure its something you are doing because you want to and enjoy it.
Good luck whatever you decide.
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Roooob, don't do it.
The expense starts with lessons and just gets worse. If you have to fly you'll find a way. It's a drug. Driving an hour and spending money you can afford is the least of the commitments you'll make if you really, really need to fly. If it's just something you'd like to do, save your money and do something more sensible
The expense starts with lessons and just gets worse. If you have to fly you'll find a way. It's a drug. Driving an hour and spending money you can afford is the least of the commitments you'll make if you really, really need to fly. If it's just something you'd like to do, save your money and do something more sensible
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If you want to fly start now, don't wait for some far off day when you may have more disposable income.
Learning is expensive but post licence flying costs whatever you'd like it to. I have a 1/6th share in a microlight (an Ikarus C-42) which keeps costs down and I also cost share by taking other pilots flying with me and in return I fly with them so I can spend twice as much time in the air
Pilots who want to spend less have smaller shares in cheaper aircraft, those who want to spend more are sole or half owners.
Owning a share doesn't mean flying less, 3 of us in our group do more hours than most of the sole or half owners at our airfield but I don't think that's due to cost reasons, for some people owning an aircraft is more important than actually flying it.
Learning is expensive but post licence flying costs whatever you'd like it to. I have a 1/6th share in a microlight (an Ikarus C-42) which keeps costs down and I also cost share by taking other pilots flying with me and in return I fly with them so I can spend twice as much time in the air
Pilots who want to spend less have smaller shares in cheaper aircraft, those who want to spend more are sole or half owners.
Owning a share doesn't mean flying less, 3 of us in our group do more hours than most of the sole or half owners at our airfield but I don't think that's due to cost reasons, for some people owning an aircraft is more important than actually flying it.
Last edited by The Fenland Flyer; 10th Apr 2013 at 19:12.
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Every time I have the impulse to put pen to paper and try and pencil up the numbers to quantify or justify how much I spend on flying being the sole owner of a half decent spam-can who flies about 100 hours a years, i get a little light headed and have to lie down till the dizziness passes !!
The problem with flying is that it is more than a passion, vocation or hobby the damn thing is like crack cocaine, it is sheer unbridled addiction and once you are hooked your knackered.
So if you can find a way to afford to fly, go for it, but remember there is no rehab and the addiction will last a lifetime, but I truly cant think of anything else in my life other than family that has given me a good grounding in discipline and procedures that are useful in other aspects of life not to mentioned the best friends and business connections I have made that came predominately thru flying and being an airport/airport bar rat.
The problem with flying is that it is more than a passion, vocation or hobby the damn thing is like crack cocaine, it is sheer unbridled addiction and once you are hooked your knackered.
So if you can find a way to afford to fly, go for it, but remember there is no rehab and the addiction will last a lifetime, but I truly cant think of anything else in my life other than family that has given me a good grounding in discipline and procedures that are useful in other aspects of life not to mentioned the best friends and business connections I have made that came predominately thru flying and being an airport/airport bar rat.
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we are luckier here in the USA...renting a plane with gas is about HALF of what you pay in the UK
save up, come to the USA and take a few lessons here and you get a trip to America.
you cant' justify it...you can't make it make money for you...but you can't justify owning a boat, or even paying too much for coffee, or taking a girl out on a date.
read: stick and rudder by wolfgang langweische and that will save you some money.
save up, come to the USA and take a few lessons here and you get a trip to America.
you cant' justify it...you can't make it make money for you...but you can't justify owning a boat, or even paying too much for coffee, or taking a girl out on a date.
read: stick and rudder by wolfgang langweische and that will save you some money.
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Thanks everyone, very helpful. I know I will be able to afford it at some point in my life, I just don't know whether to do it now when I can just about afford it, or if I should put some money aside each month and do it in a few years, when i'll have money saved up.
Just a few questions:
@grafity- I found a local flying club (which I didn't know existed till I googled it) but their price is the same as my local flying school. Are 'clubs' just as commercial as 'schools' ? (ie. Do they normally have websites and operate as a business, or are they more private and you have to ask around to find them?)
@sevenstrokeroll- I haven't thought of doing it in America. Do your prices include fuel? After i've paid for the flights, accommodation and training costs, would it work out much cheaper?
@ Anyone who wants to answer- How much are we talking for a share in an aircraft? I know it depends on how many people are buying it, but what is a reasonable cost to assume? (I don't know if it's £1,000, £10,000, £100,000 or £1,000,000
)
Just a few questions:
@grafity- I found a local flying club (which I didn't know existed till I googled it) but their price is the same as my local flying school. Are 'clubs' just as commercial as 'schools' ? (ie. Do they normally have websites and operate as a business, or are they more private and you have to ask around to find them?)
@sevenstrokeroll- I haven't thought of doing it in America. Do your prices include fuel? After i've paid for the flights, accommodation and training costs, would it work out much cheaper?
@ Anyone who wants to answer- How much are we talking for a share in an aircraft? I know it depends on how many people are buying it, but what is a reasonable cost to assume? (I don't know if it's £1,000, £10,000, £100,000 or £1,000,000
)
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Justify the cost of learning to fly??? To whom? Either YOU want to do that or you don't!
If someone who is in control or influence over your income / wealth calls it into question you should wonder whether they are in control over your life.
In aviation there's a saying - "if there's a doubt, there's NO doubt - don't do it."
Either this is something you can afford to do and will afford to go on doing after you gain a licence, or STOP NOW! Too many gain a licence and stop flying within a year or so. That's a waste of money.
If someone who is in control or influence over your income / wealth calls it into question you should wonder whether they are in control over your life.
In aviation there's a saying - "if there's a doubt, there's NO doubt - don't do it."
Either this is something you can afford to do and will afford to go on doing after you gain a licence, or STOP NOW! Too many gain a licence and stop flying within a year or so. That's a waste of money.
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renting in the USa, we call it "WET HOBBS TIME". A meter, hooked to the oil pressure gauge, runs when the engine is running and the rental location pays for the fuel you use. If you travel far enough to buy fuel , you keep the receipt and the cost is deducted upon return.
you mentioned the price in pounds sterling, and it comes out to half that in US dollars...I think you can get a trainer for 120 dollars which is about half of your pounds...give or take.
our weather is better...you can tell the girls you went to the US, took some flying lessons, looked around and then came home for what you would have paid for a few hours in the UK...
mind you, if you want a british private pilot license...that might be different.
when I learned to fly, 12 dollars would rent a brand new piper cherokee with gasoline for one hour. but my pay was such that I had to work 8 hours for one hour of plane rental (after school job...so I saved up for a full course and got my ppl, went on to the airlines...but it costs!)
good luck...take a few lessons, don't make a big commitment. When I was teaching, there was a "special" for 10 hours of dual instruction...people paid money in advance and found out they didn't like flying and didn't get theirm oney back.
hard to believe, but some people are really not into flying!
you mentioned the price in pounds sterling, and it comes out to half that in US dollars...I think you can get a trainer for 120 dollars which is about half of your pounds...give or take.
our weather is better...you can tell the girls you went to the US, took some flying lessons, looked around and then came home for what you would have paid for a few hours in the UK...
mind you, if you want a british private pilot license...that might be different.
when I learned to fly, 12 dollars would rent a brand new piper cherokee with gasoline for one hour. but my pay was such that I had to work 8 hours for one hour of plane rental (after school job...so I saved up for a full course and got my ppl, went on to the airlines...but it costs!)
good luck...take a few lessons, don't make a big commitment. When I was teaching, there was a "special" for 10 hours of dual instruction...people paid money in advance and found out they didn't like flying and didn't get theirm oney back.
hard to believe, but some people are really not into flying!
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Going to America is good if you want to do it quickly - as you can whip through everything without weather getting in the way, but by the time you have added all the incidental expenses, it rarely works out much cheaper.
Also, you will have had no preparation whatsoever for the crazy UK weather and our silly airspace, not to mention the different RT - so you'll be wanting some familiarisation training when you get back anyway.
@ Anyone who wants to answer- How much are we talking for a share in an aircraft? I know it depends on how many people are buying it, but what is a reasonable cost to assume? (I don't know if it's £1,000, £10,000, £100,000 or £1,000,000 )
)
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Are 'clubs' just as commercial as 'schools' ? (ie. Do they normally have websites and operate as a business, or are they more private and you have to ask around to find them?)
Thats probably a case of "how longs a piece of string"! However, I will answer it from the perspective of what I know - the club I belong to! We are indeed a Limited Company; however, that is more for convenience sakes and dates from 1960 when we were founded. We also have a website. However, don't run away with thinking we're commercial at all! We are a club run for the members by the members, and the one thing that unites us is a love of flying!
I guess it really depends on the individual club, and its worth asking around, visiting different establishments and seeing which you think you would fit into best, whose friendly? Who takes an interest in you? Who lets you look at their aircraft.....
Hope this helps
GQ