I need your advice regarding volunteering
Any 17 year old who gets out and about under their own steam should be applauded but I do think it's a shame that you've thrown in the (tea) towel after such a short time.
I imagine that one day you'd be very proud, sitting in the left hand seat of your Airbus saying: "You know what? I started off washing dishes at..."
But, on the other hand, perhaps that's for some one else.
I imagine that one day you'd be very proud, sitting in the left hand seat of your Airbus saying: "You know what? I started off washing dishes at..."
But, on the other hand, perhaps that's for some one else.
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Some companies out there are going to "use" people offering to volunteer, of course they are but be aware that some will also be like others have said just be testing how well you look after the one small job of cleaning dishes.
If you are unable to be trusted to do this small job to the best of your abilities and not moan about it then how are they ever going to offer you anything else
Personally I would get a part time job and volunteer at the club one day also, gets your name about and after 3 months its still as bad then try somewhere else or give it up!?
If you are unable to be trusted to do this small job to the best of your abilities and not moan about it then how are they ever going to offer you anything else
Personally I would get a part time job and volunteer at the club one day also, gets your name about and after 3 months its still as bad then try somewhere else or give it up!?
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If you are unable to be trusted to do this small job to the best of your abilities and not moan about it then how are they ever going to offer you anything else
So I don't think this means I am 'unable to be trusted' to do the job, it just means that I didn't want to do it.
If I had been breaking glasses, missing bits or not putting things in the right places then that would be showing I couldn't be trusted to do the job.
Moaning about a job and being trusted to do it is two different things. I can moan as much as I like about a job but that doesn't mean I can't be trusted to do it. When I had a Christmas job in retail I used to moan about it when I got home- that doesn't mean I couldn't be trusted to do it.
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Thanks for understanding dp! One of the Uni courses I applied to had 'Pilot Training' as part of it. It's an aerospace degree and as part of the course you learn the PPL ground school and get flying lessons (You have to pay, but you get them discounted).
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J.A.F.O., I'm not sure if being a commercial pilot is for me. After being on this forum it looks like it's pretty tough to get a job without a lot of hours. I'll be focusing on a PPL for the time being, maybe if I get the money and time I could look towards being a flying instructor/ running a little flying school.
Last edited by Flyaways; 21st Jan 2013 at 08:09.
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Yes I don't specifically mean that all the pots and pans are clean and you didn't break anything and so they trust you, I mean they may be trying you out with something like this to see how you get on before they let you loose doing different more varied tasks.
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Flyaways,
Dont listen to the comments putting you down on here!
You approached a COMMERCIAL organisation and basically they ripped the p1ss out of you as regards wages! It was below minimum wage as some have already stated, you could probably shop them in if you wanted to, give them a wake up call! You gave a shift a go, realised what their business model was and have moved on. Thats life!
A genuine organisation would have fairly compensated you for your volunteering! The fact they said that you will never get off the dishes says to me they have no interest except lining their own pockets and not helping out genuine newcomers.
I dont think you have come across as privledged or stuck in any of your posts. Its upto you how you fund your flying, be it dishes, retail, driving a taxi, etc ... Common sense says pick the option that is going to get you to your goal quickest or get you their learning more than you would have the convential route - not washing up!
J.
Dont listen to the comments putting you down on here!
You approached a COMMERCIAL organisation and basically they ripped the p1ss out of you as regards wages! It was below minimum wage as some have already stated, you could probably shop them in if you wanted to, give them a wake up call! You gave a shift a go, realised what their business model was and have moved on. Thats life!
A genuine organisation would have fairly compensated you for your volunteering! The fact they said that you will never get off the dishes says to me they have no interest except lining their own pockets and not helping out genuine newcomers.
I dont think you have come across as privledged or stuck in any of your posts. Its upto you how you fund your flying, be it dishes, retail, driving a taxi, etc ... Common sense says pick the option that is going to get you to your goal quickest or get you their learning more than you would have the convential route - not washing up!
J.
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I'm sorry, Flyaway, that you are so reluctant to do washing up. Who does it at home? do you leave your dirty clothes on the floor for your mum to deal? do you walk the dog without moaning? do you do anything without moaning?
This is a GRANNY RANTING. I've had to wash dishes and clean up **** all my life, and make the best of it, and do a good job of it. And never got paid a penny. I'm still doing exactly that, without complaining.
I was going to make a suggestion that a different sort of flying organisation that exists mostly on everybody mucking in and doing the dirty work might offer more flying opportunities, and does indeed offer more flying opportunities to teenagers who are willing to get stuck in and show up reliably. And use initiative to invent paying jobs on the airfield, if only washing cars.
But I don't think you have the qualities required.
This is a GRANNY RANTING. I've had to wash dishes and clean up **** all my life, and make the best of it, and do a good job of it. And never got paid a penny. I'm still doing exactly that, without complaining.
I was going to make a suggestion that a different sort of flying organisation that exists mostly on everybody mucking in and doing the dirty work might offer more flying opportunities, and does indeed offer more flying opportunities to teenagers who are willing to get stuck in and show up reliably. And use initiative to invent paying jobs on the airfield, if only washing cars.
But I don't think you have the qualities required.
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you could probably shop them in if you wanted to, give them a wake up call!
Thanks for the positive words!
I'm sorry, Flyaway, that you are so reluctant to do washing up. Who does it at home? do you leave your dirty clothes on the floor for your mum to deal? do you walk the dog without moaning? do you do anything without moaning?
This is a GRANNY RANTING. I've had to wash dishes and clean up **** all my life, and make the best of it, and do a good job of it. And never got paid a penny. I'm still doing exactly that, without complaining.
I was going to make a suggestion that a different sort of flying organisation that exists mostly on everybody mucking in and doing the dirty work might offer more flying opportunities, and does indeed offer more flying opportunities to teenagers who are willing to get stuck in and show up reliably. And use initiative to invent paying jobs on the airfield, if only washing cars.
But I don't think you have the qualities required.
This is a GRANNY RANTING. I've had to wash dishes and clean up **** all my life, and make the best of it, and do a good job of it. And never got paid a penny. I'm still doing exactly that, without complaining.
I was going to make a suggestion that a different sort of flying organisation that exists mostly on everybody mucking in and doing the dirty work might offer more flying opportunities, and does indeed offer more flying opportunities to teenagers who are willing to get stuck in and show up reliably. And use initiative to invent paying jobs on the airfield, if only washing cars.
But I don't think you have the qualities required.
Volunteering
I would say that judging by the way light aviation is going 'Kitchen Work' will be of more use than 'hanging around' not flying.You can progress to 'Macs' and then the sky's the limit.
You may try 'helping out' at the 'fixing' dept with the possibility of air tests,plus learn what makes the machines tick (quite useful).
So there you have it;progress from washing plates to washing aircraft (someone may even pay you for it)
You may try 'helping out' at the 'fixing' dept with the possibility of air tests,plus learn what makes the machines tick (quite useful).
So there you have it;progress from washing plates to washing aircraft (someone may even pay you for it)
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Perhaps cleaning the dishes and drying them was abit like sanding the floor and painting the fence for Mr Miyagi in the karate kid film? They were just training you in some bizzare way for something 
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In a nutshell, they've got the planes, you've not got the money. So if you want to fly their planes, you do what you have to. It's their train set.
If you want to turn that around and get another job, then pay them to fly their planes, then so be it. Although that other job will likely keep you well away from the airfield for hours on end rather than at least on-site. IMHO, pilots around the club are more likely to remember people behind the counter (in whatever role), than just another PPL student. But it depends what you want out of it/them. If you're looking to back-seat or go up with someone, then being on-site is going to be more useful than just turning up for a lesson once every few weeks.
From what I remember washing dishes in a restaurant in my youth, there was plenty time to get to know the regulars and make contacts. Not every second of it is necessarily spent in front of a sink, especially when it's quieter. And in my case, it was a test. A few weeks of washing up, and I was promoted to the bar.
If you want to turn that around and get another job, then pay them to fly their planes, then so be it. Although that other job will likely keep you well away from the airfield for hours on end rather than at least on-site. IMHO, pilots around the club are more likely to remember people behind the counter (in whatever role), than just another PPL student. But it depends what you want out of it/them. If you're looking to back-seat or go up with someone, then being on-site is going to be more useful than just turning up for a lesson once every few weeks.
From what I remember washing dishes in a restaurant in my youth, there was plenty time to get to know the regulars and make contacts. Not every second of it is necessarily spent in front of a sink, especially when it's quieter. And in my case, it was a test. A few weeks of washing up, and I was promoted to the bar.
Last edited by Slopey; 22nd Jan 2013 at 10:16.
After all the comments, and your replies, you come across as another loser with a sense of entitlement. It's time for you to start growing up and being a man.
Here's an (extreme) example.
Prince Harry shows he is 'one of the guys' and not afraid to help out with mundane chores | Mail Online
Here's an (extreme) example.
Prince Harry shows he is 'one of the guys' and not afraid to help out with mundane chores | Mail Online
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I've made the right decision in terms of numbers- It would take me 45 months (Nearly 4 years) to do the PPL on the volunteering scheme. It would take just under 2 years if funded by a p-t job.
In terms of flying experience (back seat etc) I can't say if i've made the right decision yet. I guess I will never really know, but i'm fine with that.
On a positive note, I have a job interview coming up soon (Quick, eh!)
If that's what you think then that's fine, but doing the dishes at a flying club who is only half bothered about helping me learn to fly isn't going to get me far, especially as this is a hobby, not a career.
& OK, I see that example but in my defence, it's not washing up
I did have to clean the work tops and tables too before the customers came in, but nobody on this thread knows that because I didn't complain about that bit 
But when customers come in, it's back to the sink until the end of the day.
In terms of flying experience (back seat etc) I can't say if i've made the right decision yet. I guess I will never really know, but i'm fine with that.
On a positive note, I have a job interview coming up soon (Quick, eh!)
Originally Posted by oxo
After all the comments, and your replies, you come across as another loser with a sense of entitlement. It's time for you to start growing up and being a man.
& OK, I see that example but in my defence, it's not washing up
I did have to clean the work tops and tables too before the customers came in, but nobody on this thread knows that because I didn't complain about that bit But when customers come in, it's back to the sink until the end of the day.
Washing Planes
Oh i forgot to mention;there was a person who cleaned aircraft, and did so well he ended up with his own fleet !!.
Its all about 'added vaule'. How much value do you add to a plate compared to the same effort/time on a £50,000 aircraft.
Most aircraft i see have screens that make quite good IMC trainers,perhaps you could offer a service there, and enjoy it aswell.
Not sure about all this washing up business,perhaps they thought you were interested in being an Air traffic controller.
Its all about 'added vaule'. How much value do you add to a plate compared to the same effort/time on a £50,000 aircraft.
Most aircraft i see have screens that make quite good IMC trainers,perhaps you could offer a service there, and enjoy it aswell.
Not sure about all this washing up business,perhaps they thought you were interested in being an Air traffic controller.
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I've made the right decision in terms of numbers- It would take me 45 months (Nearly 4 years) to do the PPL on the volunteering scheme. It would take just under 2 years if funded by a p-t job.
Anyone who enquires about a volunteer program, or work experience, should do so with the experience and the future prospects in mind, not the numbers. Otherwise no one would ever do an apprenticeship as the wages are really really low (lower than standard minimum wage) but it's about the experience. You think an apprentice mechanic is changing an engine on his first day? Or do you think he's doing the washing up and making cups of tea whilst observing what is going on.
From the school's point of view, you asked about volunteering, they perhaps didn't have an established volunteer scheme, so simply found you something to do. When you turn 18 and after a year of this volunteering, you could easily have found yourself working behind the bar or restaurant, on a proper wage for your age, and meeting some very experienced pilots and getting exposure to the industry you want to enter.
Rather than sucking it up and pursuing this opportunity, you have chosen to chase a job in retail, which you admit you will hate. This will keep you busy and away from the airfield, and you will find the money in your account is far more tempting to spend on girls and beer, so your PPL will probably still take 4 years anyway.
Last edited by RTN11; 22nd Jan 2013 at 21:02.
I can't say if i've made the right decision yet
You see, you came here for advice from some people who'd been around a bit longer than you. I give you full credit for that, really I do. But then you ignored the advice when it didn't match up with what you wanted. That's the bit to learn from.
It may be they were seeing what you were made of, it may be they were taking the pi$$, I don't know. What I do know is that if I could talk to my seventeen year old self I would tell me to hang around the airfield in whatever way I could, fly with everybody I could, in everything I could, let the avgas, oil and dishwater sink into every neuron while I lapped up everything that was aviation, got to know people, found out about the world. If I was working in the kitchen it would be even better, I'd never go hungry.
I might not have listened but, there again, I was a bit of an ar$e who thought he knew best. Some times I still think I know best but on the occasions that I get advice and the, less frequent, times that I ask for it, I try to learn from it.
You might as well learn from the mistakes of others because you'll be either very old or very dead before you've managed to make them all yourself.
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Well, as it's getting near bedtime, it's time for another story. This one is not directed at the OP, He/she has received my comments, both good and bad. This story (not mine) is directed to any other young ones reading...
The story goes that the employer of the aging gem cutter wanted the gem cutter to pass on his skills and knowledge to an apprentice before he retired. The gem cutter was not the least interested in this, he just wanted to work on his own. However, the employer insisted, and assigned the most serene young fellow they could find.
The apprentice reports for work, and the old gem cutter is less than welcoming. Knowing that he has no choice but to mentor the young fellow, he hands the apprentice an uncut gem, and directs him to sit in the corner. Predictably, the young apprentice eventually asks when he can cut a stone. "When I think you're ready" comes the reply.
This goes on for a few weeks, with the apprentice becoming increasingly frustrated with his apparent lack of advancement, and the gem cutter still telling him "When you're ready".
One day, having again been sent to the corner with the uncut stone, the apprentice returns to the gem cutter and says: "I notice that this is not the same stone that you gave me yesterday...".
"You're ready....."
The story goes that the employer of the aging gem cutter wanted the gem cutter to pass on his skills and knowledge to an apprentice before he retired. The gem cutter was not the least interested in this, he just wanted to work on his own. However, the employer insisted, and assigned the most serene young fellow they could find.
The apprentice reports for work, and the old gem cutter is less than welcoming. Knowing that he has no choice but to mentor the young fellow, he hands the apprentice an uncut gem, and directs him to sit in the corner. Predictably, the young apprentice eventually asks when he can cut a stone. "When I think you're ready" comes the reply.
This goes on for a few weeks, with the apprentice becoming increasingly frustrated with his apparent lack of advancement, and the gem cutter still telling him "When you're ready".
One day, having again been sent to the corner with the uncut stone, the apprentice returns to the gem cutter and says: "I notice that this is not the same stone that you gave me yesterday...".
"You're ready....."
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If that's what you think then that's fine, but doing the dishes at a flying club who is only half bothered about helping me learn to fly isn't going to get me far, especially as this is a hobby, not a career.
Nothing to do with arrogance or snobbery, as some of the above posts imply. In the real world people don't go to work for the fun of it. They go for the $$$! I knew that when I started my first paying part-time job aged 16 and I certainly know it now. What sort of moneygrubbing flying school takes on teenagers to do their washing up for free?! If they had any sense they'd be giving your proper experience to court your business as a prospective PPL student!
OP you're doing well. A lot of 17 year olds sit on their arses at home playing computer games. You've already achieved more than that by looking at volunteering and now making a mature assessment about whether it's worth continuing.
A paying part time job at 17 will give you self respect, a work ethic, confidence and money in your pocket. That work ethic can be your launchpad to a career, as a pilot or otherwise, a place to live and a lifestyle. Once you're set up with these things, you can think about where to go from there!
Best of luck.
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Originally Posted by J.A.F.O
We can.
You see, you came here for advice from some people who'd been around a bit longer than you. I give you full credit for that, really I do. But then you ignored the advice when it didn't match up with what you wanted. That's the bit to learn from.
You see, you came here for advice from some people who'd been around a bit longer than you. I give you full credit for that, really I do. But then you ignored the advice when it didn't match up with what you wanted. That's the bit to learn from.
Everyone has given me advice on this thread, whether they say I was right to stop or I was wrong to stop. It's advice, not instructions. I read the advice which then influences my decision. In the way you're speaking, I can't win. If I had carried on with the scheme then I'd have 'ignored' the advice of those who suggested I stop. I have decided not to carry on, which means I have 'ignored' the advice of people who advised me to carry on.
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It could have turned out to be a great volunteering scheme and I end up with a lot of experience and contacts in the industry. On the other hand, it could turn out terrible and i'd be stuck out of sight washing the dishes every day.
Heck, I don't see anything that indicates you even talked it over with the manager. He might have given you a more realistic view of the job and the future.
I think that's what annoyed most of the posters on this thread. Not the fact that you made a decision one way or another, but the fact that you started whining about it so quickly, without giving it a few days/shifts to see how it would turn out.
It was certainly my reason for getting involved with this thread.
Last edited by BackPacker; 23rd Jan 2013 at 12:30.