Light aircraft down at Chester?
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Both men have now been officially named.
Two men in Churton fatal aircraft collision named - Cheshire Constabulary
Sad sad news! Both lovely guys and will be sorely missed! x
Two men in Churton fatal aircraft collision named - Cheshire Constabulary
Sad sad news! Both lovely guys and will be sorely missed! x
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Saddened to hear about this.
I'll always remember John Green as a lovely bloke. He was the first person I met at Hawarden when I turned up on a whim one sunny Sunday afternoon to find out about how to get started flying
I remember him saying it was a shame I'd turned up so late as we could have gone up, but never mind, we could take a look at the Tomahawk and other aeroplanes resident in the 'Big hangar' and he did so for the next hour, enthusiastically discussing the aircraft there.
It was that enthusiasm and friendliness that ensured my return and he was my instructor for my very first flight and for a few of the hours that followed before I moved on to another instructor.
One of the times we flew will stay with me forever. He took the controls, aimed for a hole in the cloud and chased around one for a little while before heading back down below the cloud layer again. It doesn't sound like much but in my first few hours it was the most amazing thing ever.
Despite me being bloody awful in the beginning he had a lot of patience and professionalism and I thought him a really nice guy.
A really sad loss.
I'll always remember John Green as a lovely bloke. He was the first person I met at Hawarden when I turned up on a whim one sunny Sunday afternoon to find out about how to get started flying
I remember him saying it was a shame I'd turned up so late as we could have gone up, but never mind, we could take a look at the Tomahawk and other aeroplanes resident in the 'Big hangar' and he did so for the next hour, enthusiastically discussing the aircraft there.
It was that enthusiasm and friendliness that ensured my return and he was my instructor for my very first flight and for a few of the hours that followed before I moved on to another instructor.
One of the times we flew will stay with me forever. He took the controls, aimed for a hole in the cloud and chased around one for a little while before heading back down below the cloud layer again. It doesn't sound like much but in my first few hours it was the most amazing thing ever.
Despite me being bloody awful in the beginning he had a lot of patience and professionalism and I thought him a really nice guy.
A really sad loss.
Last edited by Phil Parry; 20th Aug 2012 at 15:51.
Shocked and saddened.
Fourteen years ago I embarked on my PPL with Chester flying school, John was my instructor who expertly guided me through those early days in my aviation career - I have many aviation first memories sat beside John at the controls of a Tomahawk, it was always a pleasure to fly with him. To this day I have always felt indebted to him for his contribution getting me to where I am today.
On my next flight as I paint my contrails across the skies, I will think of you John.
Fourteen years ago I embarked on my PPL with Chester flying school, John was my instructor who expertly guided me through those early days in my aviation career - I have many aviation first memories sat beside John at the controls of a Tomahawk, it was always a pleasure to fly with him. To this day I have always felt indebted to him for his contribution getting me to where I am today.
On my next flight as I paint my contrails across the skies, I will think of you John.
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Also extremely shocked and saddened to hear about this.
After completing half of my PPL at Bournemouth, I finished it at Hawarden, about 10 years ago, and John was my instructor.
A career instructor, he was always very calm, very safe, and very knowledgeable, and a pleasure to fly with. This is a hugh loss to general aviation
After completing half of my PPL at Bournemouth, I finished it at Hawarden, about 10 years ago, and John was my instructor.
A career instructor, he was always very calm, very safe, and very knowledgeable, and a pleasure to fly with. This is a hugh loss to general aviation
I first met John at Woodvale when he worked at West Lancs Aero Club, I didn't fly with him much but I always thought him a good bloke.
If anyone has funeral arrangements can you PM them to me if not public, one of his former colleagues is a friend of mine and wants to know about them.
Gary
If anyone has funeral arrangements can you PM them to me if not public, one of his former colleagues is a friend of mine and wants to know about them.
Gary
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Hi Gary, I knew John from Hawarden as my PPL Instructor, and also Karl as a Broughton employee and member of my local model aero club.
The plane seems to have impacted the ground wheels first, and the tail snapped off to the right. I hope the AAIB soon give their results, as many Instructors and Pupils are still using these planes. The HM Coroner's Inquest will be held in a few months time , when all the facts are known.
I think the funeral of John will be at Chester Crematorium at 15:00 on Wednesday 29th August.
Pete
The plane seems to have impacted the ground wheels first, and the tail snapped off to the right. I hope the AAIB soon give their results, as many Instructors and Pupils are still using these planes. The HM Coroner's Inquest will be held in a few months time , when all the facts are known.
I think the funeral of John will be at Chester Crematorium at 15:00 on Wednesday 29th August.
Pete
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I can confirm that John's funeral will be as mentioned above, 15:00 Wednesday 29th August at Chester Crematorium and afterwards to 'The Little Owl' which is a short car journey from the crematorium.
Also, it would be appreciated if speculation about what has happened could be discussed elsewhere.
Thanks.
Also, it would be appreciated if speculation about what has happened could be discussed elsewhere.
Thanks.
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The AAIB report has been released in the July Bulletin.
BBC News - Engine failure 'may have caused' Chester plane crash
Air Accidents Investigation: Piper PA-38-112 Tomahawk, G-BODP
BBC News - Engine failure 'may have caused' Chester plane crash
A light aircraft crash near Chester which killed two men last year may have been caused by engine failure, air accident investigators have said.
Last edited by PapaEchoNovember; 11th Jul 2013 at 18:51.
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Noticed that they haven't picked up on how much fuel which was in the tanks if it did spin.
If you have anymore than above the middle of the X in the tanks the spin is shall we say extreme. I have never done one with 30 mins out of a tank and the other full but I have only once done one with a bit more than the X which I never repeated due to the level of excitement in fact after that I tried to keep spinning to an hour in the tanks and 30 min reserve.
If it did spin with full tanks I wouldn't be surprised if the engine did stop due to fuel either the float chamber or the weight of it being to much for the fuel pump.
If you have anymore than above the middle of the X in the tanks the spin is shall we say extreme. I have never done one with 30 mins out of a tank and the other full but I have only once done one with a bit more than the X which I never repeated due to the level of excitement in fact after that I tried to keep spinning to an hour in the tanks and 30 min reserve.
If it did spin with full tanks I wouldn't be surprised if the engine did stop due to fuel either the float chamber or the weight of it being to much for the fuel pump.
Last edited by mad_jock; 12th Jul 2013 at 10:33.
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Fuel
'Refuelled to full tanks 2 flying hours prior to the last flight.'
Sounds as though it had been flown for 2 hrs prior to the last flight, so approx 2.5 hrs from full tanks up to the accident? It's not overly clear, but that's how I read it??
Sounds as though it had been flown for 2 hrs prior to the last flight, so approx 2.5 hrs from full tanks up to the accident? It's not overly clear, but that's how I read it??
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Yep your right re-reading it 69ltrs which would have been over the cross though I think full tanks is 115ltrs from a very distant memory.
About the same as when I had my interesting "spin".
Mine was on purpose from 6000ft and took 4000ft to come out. The plane did 2 turns with full rudder applied and stick forward slightly before it started to spin faster as it was coming out. It stopped spinning at 3000ft and we recovered to S&L at 2000ft, we were over the sea.
Whole thing took 15 seconds and we did 5-6 rotations I think. With 1.5 hours fuel in the tanks the normal would have been 2000ft lost and 3 rotations in the same time.
About the same as when I had my interesting "spin".
Mine was on purpose from 6000ft and took 4000ft to come out. The plane did 2 turns with full rudder applied and stick forward slightly before it started to spin faster as it was coming out. It stopped spinning at 3000ft and we recovered to S&L at 2000ft, we were over the sea.
Whole thing took 15 seconds and we did 5-6 rotations I think. With 1.5 hours fuel in the tanks the normal would have been 2000ft lost and 3 rotations in the same time.
Last edited by mad_jock; 12th Jul 2013 at 11:19.
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Engine failure?
"AAIB = Stall demo, wing drop, accidental spin, too low to recover.
At least that's what I read
BBC says engine problem"
Now I get it. In BBC speak, stall=engine failure
At least that's what I read
BBC says engine problem"
Now I get it. In BBC speak, stall=engine failure
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The BBC's report is consistent with the AAIB's report.
"The engine did not appear to have been operating with any significant power when the aircraft struck the ground, and may not have been turning at all. No cause for an engine failure could be found but the POH states that the engine may stop while the aircraft is spinning. However, it was not possible to determine when the engine power reduced", and in the conclusion: "an engine failure prior to the loss of control of the aircraft could not be ruled out."
"The engine did not appear to have been operating with any significant power when the aircraft struck the ground, and may not have been turning at all. No cause for an engine failure could be found but the POH states that the engine may stop while the aircraft is spinning. However, it was not possible to determine when the engine power reduced", and in the conclusion: "an engine failure prior to the loss of control of the aircraft could not be ruled out."
Last edited by wb9999; 12th Jul 2013 at 21:20.
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Hi, Piper's May 2012 revision to the POH says that you should recover by 4000ft. If you are slow flying, and a stall/spin is likely, that means that you should add a further 1500ft. i.e. start the manoeuvre above 5500ft.
The implication is that any slow flight below 5500ft is dangerous in a Tomahawk, which makes landing it a bit difficult.
I had an encounter with a vortex from the A380 building at Hawarden, whilst John was instructing, I lost about 100ft of the 150ft whilst crossing the fence on final.... We were both lucky that day.
The implication is that any slow flight below 5500ft is dangerous in a Tomahawk, which makes landing it a bit difficult.
I had an encounter with a vortex from the A380 building at Hawarden, whilst John was instructing, I lost about 100ft of the 150ft whilst crossing the fence on final.... We were both lucky that day.
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I can't see them surviving much longer.
If you have any problems with the nose gear that needs a replacement that's the aircraft scrapped.
It not dangerous per say but you have to be switched on as an instructor and also fly the thing properly. Any pissing about hoofing the rudder pedals while slow and low is a tad silly.
Shame really, as they are an extremely good initial trainer. And in my opinion produce a better pilot than some of the other more benign trainers.
If you have any problems with the nose gear that needs a replacement that's the aircraft scrapped.
It not dangerous per say but you have to be switched on as an instructor and also fly the thing properly. Any pissing about hoofing the rudder pedals while slow and low is a tad silly.
Shame really, as they are an extremely good initial trainer. And in my opinion produce a better pilot than some of the other more benign trainers.
