It is acceptable....
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It is acceptable....
...for a FTO to take almost two weeks (and counting) to gather the paperwork to send to the CAA once you passed your skills test, or am I justifiably getting frustrated?
Having never been here before, I don't really know if it's something they should do straight away, or if it's normal to take this long, but to me it doesn't seem reasonable or considerate towards a paying customer...
I work during away during the week so can only pick it up at weekends, so if it's not done by tomorrow then it'll be another week. The only reason given is that the CFI is spending all his time flying and will only be able to look at the paperwork when they are grounded due to WX.
Should I be getting cross with them by now?!
Having never been here before, I don't really know if it's something they should do straight away, or if it's normal to take this long, but to me it doesn't seem reasonable or considerate towards a paying customer...
I work during away during the week so can only pick it up at weekends, so if it's not done by tomorrow then it'll be another week. The only reason given is that the CFI is spending all his time flying and will only be able to look at the paperwork when they are grounded due to WX.
Should I be getting cross with them by now?!
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Hmmm.. Difficult one this.
If it's only a small training organisation I suppose they are up against it - especially as the poor weather has curtailed so much flying.
Maybe you have to turn the question around and ask whether you would have been happy to have your flying/skills test put on hold because the CFI was processing a licence application?
Hope it's all sorted for you soon Ds3 - if it's any comfort, I am near Cambridge & it's raining cats & dogs here at the moment. Every silver lining has a cloud?
If it's only a small training organisation I suppose they are up against it - especially as the poor weather has curtailed so much flying.
Maybe you have to turn the question around and ask whether you would have been happy to have your flying/skills test put on hold because the CFI was processing a licence application?
Hope it's all sorted for you soon Ds3 - if it's any comfort, I am near Cambridge & it's raining cats & dogs here at the moment. Every silver lining has a cloud?
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No
It doesn't sound like your FTO is very well organised. My school kept a file with my training records and straight after my skills test I filled in, along with the examiner, all the necessary paperwork (they even gave me a big brown envelope) to send off to the CAA. One hour after my test, all the necessary paperwork was in the post to the CAA recorded delivery and 2 weeks later I was flying with my mum as my first pax.
I think your CFI needs to pull his/her finger out.
Alex
I think your CFI needs to pull his/her finger out.
Alex
Last edited by Aspiring Pilot Alex; 4th Aug 2012 at 10:43.
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I recall it took my CFI a while to do the relevant paperwork for my PPL, mostly because re-checking my logbooks etc took some time. If you did your test at a different school to the place where you did most of your training, the CFI will need to check and verify your training records from both establishments.
From the tone of a few of your posts, it sounds like you need to learn to be a little more patient. In aviation not everything happens straight away. The weather can be a real downer, lovely when you're working and rubbish on weekends, leaving you frustrated on weekends and not able to fly for weeks and weeks. The aircraft you had booked might go tech, and then maintenance takes a month longer than they had anticipated. CFIs and FIs are only human, and they have many customers at any one time, and sometimes they cannot revolve around any one person. And the CAA will take their own sweet time...
Getting angry or hassling people in any of these situations will not help anyone. I would suggest that if you were to phone the CFI on a weekday when flying trade is less intense, to ask when would be best to collect your stuff, at least he/she will be able to give you a deadline to work to.
Note that if you do delay submission until after sept 17th, you'll get a lifetime EASA licence as opposed to a 5 year JAA licence, which would have to be changed to an EASA licence within that 5 years at an additional cost. So there could be a benefit to a long delay.
From the tone of a few of your posts, it sounds like you need to learn to be a little more patient. In aviation not everything happens straight away. The weather can be a real downer, lovely when you're working and rubbish on weekends, leaving you frustrated on weekends and not able to fly for weeks and weeks. The aircraft you had booked might go tech, and then maintenance takes a month longer than they had anticipated. CFIs and FIs are only human, and they have many customers at any one time, and sometimes they cannot revolve around any one person. And the CAA will take their own sweet time...
Getting angry or hassling people in any of these situations will not help anyone. I would suggest that if you were to phone the CFI on a weekday when flying trade is less intense, to ask when would be best to collect your stuff, at least he/she will be able to give you a deadline to work to.
Note that if you do delay submission until after sept 17th, you'll get a lifetime EASA licence as opposed to a 5 year JAA licence, which would have to be changed to an EASA licence within that 5 years at an additional cost. So there could be a benefit to a long delay.
Last edited by fwjc; 4th Aug 2012 at 10:48.
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@ Duckeggble, my skills test was delayed by over a month due to their disorganisation 
Since I posted, it's started raining heavily here too so you never know lol!
@fwjc, I think that's a little harsh without knowing the specifics of my situation. Over the last 6 months there have been some very significant delays at my FTO that have been entirely avoidable. I completely appreciate there are alwys delays such as weather and tech issues, however other delays can easily be mitigated by running a vaguely efficient organisation. The test was done at the same school where every hour of my training was flown eventually.
Naturally I have already phoned my FTO during the week, they have said they will call me back four times (make that five today) and haven't done so once, and the only message I have been given is that he is waiting for bad weather.
I know CFIs are only human, but at the end of the day surely part of their job is the paperwork as well as the flying and they should manage their workload around that, rather than relying solely on bad weather. They had almost £10k of my money over the last year and all I'm asking is for them to spend the last what, 30 minutes, hour? to get my paperwork together so I can move forward...
Very interesting point regarding delaying the application though. Will everything I've done by valid for the EASA license and it's simply a matter of waiting to submit it then? It'd be annoying having to wait until then, but I may have to do a bit more research to way up the benefits of doing so.
Since I posted, it's started raining heavily here too so you never know lol!@fwjc, I think that's a little harsh without knowing the specifics of my situation. Over the last 6 months there have been some very significant delays at my FTO that have been entirely avoidable. I completely appreciate there are alwys delays such as weather and tech issues, however other delays can easily be mitigated by running a vaguely efficient organisation. The test was done at the same school where every hour of my training was flown eventually.
Naturally I have already phoned my FTO during the week, they have said they will call me back four times (make that five today) and haven't done so once, and the only message I have been given is that he is waiting for bad weather.
I know CFIs are only human, but at the end of the day surely part of their job is the paperwork as well as the flying and they should manage their workload around that, rather than relying solely on bad weather. They had almost £10k of my money over the last year and all I'm asking is for them to spend the last what, 30 minutes, hour? to get my paperwork together so I can move forward...
Very interesting point regarding delaying the application though. Will everything I've done by valid for the EASA license and it's simply a matter of waiting to submit it then? It'd be annoying having to wait until then, but I may have to do a bit more research to way up the benefits of doing so.
Last edited by Ds3; 4th Aug 2012 at 11:07.
...for a FTO to take almost two weeks (and counting) to gather the paperwork to send to the CAA once you passed your skills test, or am I justifiably getting frustrated?
I would suggest that you are lucky that they actually did it for you!
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Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, I'm not waiting for him to submit the application to the CAA. I'm waiting for him to give me the relevant paperwork so I can do so.
Last edited by Ds3; 4th Aug 2012 at 11:21.
If the school is running a worthwhile system of training records and keeping them up to date, then only one further piece of information will be required on completion of the skills test......the results of that test.
As the Skills Test may only be attempted once all other training requirements have been met, I used to use the applicant's planning time to check that all his exams had been completed, marked and signed for by the examiners and that he had achieved all the hours requirements, Q X-C etc. Also that he had everything else which was needed to send off to the Authority assuming that his Skill Test was successful.
The FE charges a lot of money for sitting and watching a Skill Test. So it's only fair that he/she confirms that the applicant is able to take the test and that all paperwork is in order during the debrief. Those who just turn up, give the applicant the brief, take the cheque, fly the trip and then hand over the Skill Test report before disappearing are letting the side down, Whopity.
But why don't FIs check the application checklist with the applicant in advance? How often have simple things like proof of identity been overlooked? Or personal flying log books been in rag order. Or exams completed, but no examiner's signature in the PPL application form...
Quality assessment of a school should include noting the average time between an applicant passing the Skill Test and receiving the licence.
The FE charges a lot of money for sitting and watching a Skill Test. So it's only fair that he/she confirms that the applicant is able to take the test and that all paperwork is in order during the debrief. Those who just turn up, give the applicant the brief, take the cheque, fly the trip and then hand over the Skill Test report before disappearing are letting the side down, Whopity.
But why don't FIs check the application checklist with the applicant in advance? How often have simple things like proof of identity been overlooked? Or personal flying log books been in rag order. Or exams completed, but no examiner's signature in the PPL application form...
Quality assessment of a school should include noting the average time between an applicant passing the Skill Test and receiving the licence.
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My club had all my paperwork ready for the day I did my skills test and I took it away with me that day.
In my opinion, anything other than this is completely unacceptable.
In my opinion, anything other than this is completely unacceptable.
Last edited by stevelup; 4th Aug 2012 at 11:52.
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He did so some checks whilst I was preparing, such as checking I'd done adequate solo hours etc. And they know I've done all the exams.
This is why I'm getting a little frustrated. I don't really understand what it is they need to do that's taking so much time, other than gather a few bits together and sign a form or two.
This is why I'm getting a little frustrated. I don't really understand what it is they need to do that's taking so much time, other than gather a few bits together and sign a form or two.
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Booze ups, breweries etc. etc. Stand over him while he does it, if he attempts to go home at the end of a day's flying without doing it, nail his feet to the floor.
It's years since I did my PPL but I wouldn't have tolerated a day's delay on the paperwork nor did I suffer it, I even had the same day for IMCR and IR.
It's years since I did my PPL but I wouldn't have tolerated a day's delay on the paperwork nor did I suffer it, I even had the same day for IMCR and IR.
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I would say not acceptable. Before an FI submits a student for test, they should make sure that all i's are dotted and t's are crossed so all the examiner should do is check and sign the application form, and check and sign the logbook. Then the student can (as long as the RT test has been done) chuck it all in an envelope and send it off, before having a well deserved cold beer. (and then spend 3 weeks getting angry at the CAA for relieving you of lots of money and then still taking lots of time to print several sheets of paper).
The CFI/examiner needs to make time to complete his/her paperwork, that is part of the job that you are paying (very good money) for them to do. I think a 2 week wait for them to even put a couple of signatures down and hand you back the paperwork is completely out of order!
Also £10,000 for a PPL, did you have any particular troubles/delays during your PPL? or are they simply ludicrously expensive?
The CFI/examiner needs to make time to complete his/her paperwork, that is part of the job that you are paying (very good money) for them to do. I think a 2 week wait for them to even put a couple of signatures down and hand you back the paperwork is completely out of order!
Also £10,000 for a PPL, did you have any particular troubles/delays during your PPL? or are they simply ludicrously expensive?
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Well I'm glad most people seem to share my view. After expressing my frustration today I finally had a call back inviting me to go and and sit and wait in the clubhouse tomorrow until the CFI has a convenient moment between flights to get it sorted!
GingerFI, despite making great progress in 2011 I have suffered a lot of delays in 2012 - some of which are down to WX, but also to lack of instructors and disorganisation - I've flown about 60 hours many of which were down to my desire to keep flying, rather than actual progress towards my PPL. The club is reasonably priced at £136 dual.
I won't name the club in this thread, but I'm sure that if anyone local searched my previous posts they wouldn't have any trouble deducing where it was.
GingerFI, despite making great progress in 2011 I have suffered a lot of delays in 2012 - some of which are down to WX, but also to lack of instructors and disorganisation - I've flown about 60 hours many of which were down to my desire to keep flying, rather than actual progress towards my PPL. The club is reasonably priced at £136 dual.
I won't name the club in this thread, but I'm sure that if anyone local searched my previous posts they wouldn't have any trouble deducing where it was.
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Ok so now I will name the club, which is Peterborough Sibson, and ask advice on if there is anyway to lodge an official complaint about an FTO?
Despite stern words and repeatedly broken promises my paperwork still hasn't been sent off, nor will the CFI give me the paperwork to send off myself. He hasn't given any reasonable excuse for this other than he still needs to do some work on it, and is too busy flying.
It's been three weeks now, not only am I getting seriously ****** off, I'm also starting to get very suspicious about why it's not being done. I don't believe there's any issue with my training per se, I've definitely done all the excercises, passed all exams, and got the temp slip to confirm I passed the skills test, but maybe there's any issue with the club or his licensing??
I need to move this forward, but short of violence (joking, obviously) or staging a sit-in protest I'm a little short on ideas - any suggestions welcome please...
Despite stern words and repeatedly broken promises my paperwork still hasn't been sent off, nor will the CFI give me the paperwork to send off myself. He hasn't given any reasonable excuse for this other than he still needs to do some work on it, and is too busy flying.
It's been three weeks now, not only am I getting seriously ****** off, I'm also starting to get very suspicious about why it's not being done. I don't believe there's any issue with my training per se, I've definitely done all the excercises, passed all exams, and got the temp slip to confirm I passed the skills test, but maybe there's any issue with the club or his licensing??
I need to move this forward, but short of violence (joking, obviously) or staging a sit-in protest I'm a little short on ideas - any suggestions welcome please...
