How to fly IFR during the Olympics?
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Shoreham lists only 2 per hour during its opening times, but only 1 per hour during the early morning (PPR) times.
This is more or less unusable.
With Z and Y banned, I am trying to work out a way of departing V and then changing to I, or changing to a new flight plan, enroute.
Is it actually illegal to commence a flight plan from a given airport without departing from its runway e.g. by being overhead and talking to it?
One foreign ATCO told me that if I file V on a pre-validated Eurocontrol route (which is obviously trivial) then changing it to I while I am flying is very easy.
The thing to which I have been completely unable to get an answer is whether the UK will be getting Eurocontrol to implement the Z/Y ban. If they don't, then I cannot see why one could not just file I from the start but actually remain VFR OCAS in UK airspace. That meets the olympic security
requirements, after all.
This is more or less unusable.
With Z and Y banned, I am trying to work out a way of departing V and then changing to I, or changing to a new flight plan, enroute.
Is it actually illegal to commence a flight plan from a given airport without departing from its runway e.g. by being overhead and talking to it?
One foreign ATCO told me that if I file V on a pre-validated Eurocontrol route (which is obviously trivial) then changing it to I while I am flying is very easy.
The thing to which I have been completely unable to get an answer is whether the UK will be getting Eurocontrol to implement the Z/Y ban. If they don't, then I cannot see why one could not just file I from the start but actually remain VFR OCAS in UK airspace. That meets the olympic security
requirements, after all.
Last edited by peterh337; 12th Jul 2012 at 08:01.
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Peter,
I hadn't thought about it until you posted, but it would certainly seem reasonable to file a flight plan from a ZZZZ airport (i.e. a random lat/lon), depart Shoreham VFR and then activate the flightplan when you are near that lat/lon.
Returning is probably more complex in that HMRC et al use the flightplan to understand where you are going to arrive. Once in the Olympic period, I would try a Z plan with the transition prior to the UK FIR. This certainly achieves the spirit of the regs (not over burdening London Control with too many aircraft and not having lots of people cancel IFR one waypoint before an airport and then stooge around at low level.
I suspect as well the IFR system for the small/distant airports will loosen up a bit (or may have very few slots booked).
I hadn't thought about it until you posted, but it would certainly seem reasonable to file a flight plan from a ZZZZ airport (i.e. a random lat/lon), depart Shoreham VFR and then activate the flightplan when you are near that lat/lon.
Returning is probably more complex in that HMRC et al use the flightplan to understand where you are going to arrive. Once in the Olympic period, I would try a Z plan with the transition prior to the UK FIR. This certainly achieves the spirit of the regs (not over burdening London Control with too many aircraft and not having lots of people cancel IFR one waypoint before an airport and then stooge around at low level.
I suspect as well the IFR system for the small/distant airports will loosen up a bit (or may have very few slots booked).
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Try emailing [email protected] for the official answer? They've published a 114 page guide as well.
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mm_flynn
That is a brilliant idea
Together with flying VFR (I mean OCAS
) from ZZZZ to the UK FIR boundary, that has to work.
Might have to do some aerobatics if say going to France, because if you turn up at say ALESO at FL074 you won't be able to call up (AFAIK) Paris Control; you will call up Lille and then ask for a climb say FL140 and then they will transfer you to Paris Control, whereas if you came off London Control you would get handed to Paris Control straight off. This has some impact on the kind of wx you are dealing with prior to ALESO; you don't want to be collecting ice at FL074 and with an unknown amount of IMC above you.
The return to the UK is not a problem, as it happens, because it is wholly legitimate to file IFR to e.g. LTQ and when overhead LTQ you divert to the intended UK (south coast, outside the olympic zone) destination. At the same time you cancel IFR. The Captain can divert anywhere he wants. That kind of thing is illegit only if you are breaching Schengen Customs rules etc.
So the flight to the UK is wholly VFR and not bound by slots.
If you want to make it even more proper, file the UK destination as the alternate on the flight plan and they will then have a copy of the flight plan. Not that that means anything because AFAIK filing some airport as the alternate doesn't mean anything, and doesn't do anything more than if you addressed that airport separately on the flight plan (or just phoned them of your ETA).
I have today been told that Eurocontrol will not only enforce the Z/Y ban but will also enforce the slots so if e.g. the airport has 2 slots for 0900-1000 and 1 person files IFR for 0905 and another files IFR for 0930 then when you try to file IFR for 0945, Eurocontrol will refuse to accept the flight plan. This really suprised me...
That is a brilliant idea
Together with flying VFR (I mean OCAS
) from ZZZZ to the UK FIR boundary, that has to work.Might have to do some aerobatics if say going to France, because if you turn up at say ALESO at FL074 you won't be able to call up (AFAIK) Paris Control; you will call up Lille and then ask for a climb say FL140 and then they will transfer you to Paris Control, whereas if you came off London Control you would get handed to Paris Control straight off. This has some impact on the kind of wx you are dealing with prior to ALESO; you don't want to be collecting ice at FL074 and with an unknown amount of IMC above you.
The return to the UK is not a problem, as it happens, because it is wholly legitimate to file IFR to e.g. LTQ and when overhead LTQ you divert to the intended UK (south coast, outside the olympic zone) destination. At the same time you cancel IFR. The Captain can divert anywhere he wants. That kind of thing is illegit only if you are breaching Schengen Customs rules etc.
So the flight to the UK is wholly VFR and not bound by slots.
If you want to make it even more proper, file the UK destination as the alternate on the flight plan and they will then have a copy of the flight plan. Not that that means anything because AFAIK filing some airport as the alternate doesn't mean anything, and doesn't do anything more than if you addressed that airport separately on the flight plan (or just phoned them of your ETA).
I have today been told that Eurocontrol will not only enforce the Z/Y ban but will also enforce the slots so if e.g. the airport has 2 slots for 0900-1000 and 1 person files IFR for 0905 and another files IFR for 0930 then when you try to file IFR for 0945, Eurocontrol will refuse to accept the flight plan. This really suprised me...
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Shoreham probably has a lot more IFR traffic than say Thruxton or Old Sarum but unless I really need to leave at a certain time I'm not too bothered about the possibility of having to alter my timings by an hour or two to get an IFR slot. By all means try and get around the system but would it really be worth the trouble compared to just adjusting one's plans accordingly? Unless of course all the slots are taken...
This whole "co-ordination" thing for these small airfields is such tosh though; I mean yes the London area probably needs rationing but for people going South from the coast towards Europe at light aircraft altitudes FL80-140 etc I really don't see how we are bothering London control too much.
I'd curious to see if all this talk of lots of private jet traffic at Biggin Hill etc actually materialises...
This whole "co-ordination" thing for these small airfields is such tosh though; I mean yes the London area probably needs rationing but for people going South from the coast towards Europe at light aircraft altitudes FL80-140 etc I really don't see how we are bothering London control too much.
I'd curious to see if all this talk of lots of private jet traffic at Biggin Hill etc actually materialises...
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How are air shows affected by this ?
Or are they affected at all ?
I was thinking of Duxford aerodrome as that is covered by this blanket ban.
When airshows are on, there are a few pilots that fly in.
Am I correct in thinking that VFR flights can be taken as long as a flight plan is sent to the relevant powers that be ?
Or are they affected at all ?
I was thinking of Duxford aerodrome as that is covered by this blanket ban.
When airshows are on, there are a few pilots that fly in.
Am I correct in thinking that VFR flights can be taken as long as a flight plan is sent to the relevant powers that be ?
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For the benefit of any miscreant that does not follow the rules - these guys will probably be delighted to explore a deep meaningful conversation with you.
Incidently anyone know exactly what those pointy things are
Images © Associated Newspapers Ltd: Owners of Daily Mail
Incidently anyone know exactly what those pointy things are
Images © Associated Newspapers Ltd: Owners of Daily Mail
Last edited by UL730; 13th Jul 2012 at 18:10.
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The chap on the left has changed guns between shots. Starts of with an Accuracy International rifle then goes to some AR looking variant . The other fellow has a semi auto 12 bore, presumably a winchester or remmington. I can't see what use the shotgun would be for anything other than bothering people past about 50 yards. Perhaps he keeps guard of the helicopter if they have to land in a built up area...
