35 U.S gallon tank capacity, but is it really?
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35 U.S gallon tank capacity, but is it really?
Howdy people,
just came back from the club………my hands (and now my keyboard) reek of fuel oil still ; as I just filled up my plane to the brim for the very 1st time.
I am gonna do a little X-country tomorrow, I guess the fuel quantity will be overkill……..but I deem it useful to know exactly what the plane´s capabilities are.
And what about that phrase "never too much fuel unless you`re on fire" or something rather…….??
Hoping for nice weather like last time; what is a PPRuNe-thread without a nice scenic pic???:
My question: how do you go about filling your plane up to a 100%, say for a long X-country? I must have spilled half a gallon (to say the least) here and there, and the plane was almost on an almost perfectly level floor (hangar).
I know tomorrow, I will be taxiing and leaving a trail of fuel behind over these bumps and I better fly perfectly level the 1st half an hour!
Any idea how much fuel could be lost by the above factors?
I would never fly it to its maximum range anyway, I guess that is why you keep that bit up your sleeve at any time.
But still, I was wondering if any of you have experience with this.
How realistic are the manufacturers numbers with regards to fuel capacity?
Cheers,
###Ultra Long Hauler###
just came back from the club………my hands (and now my keyboard) reek of fuel oil still ; as I just filled up my plane to the brim for the very 1st time.
I am gonna do a little X-country tomorrow, I guess the fuel quantity will be overkill……..but I deem it useful to know exactly what the plane´s capabilities are.
And what about that phrase "never too much fuel unless you`re on fire" or something rather…….??
Hoping for nice weather like last time; what is a PPRuNe-thread without a nice scenic pic???:
My question: how do you go about filling your plane up to a 100%, say for a long X-country? I must have spilled half a gallon (to say the least) here and there, and the plane was almost on an almost perfectly level floor (hangar).
I know tomorrow, I will be taxiing and leaving a trail of fuel behind over these bumps and I better fly perfectly level the 1st half an hour!
Any idea how much fuel could be lost by the above factors?
I would never fly it to its maximum range anyway, I guess that is why you keep that bit up your sleeve at any time.
But still, I was wondering if any of you have experience with this.
How realistic are the manufacturers numbers with regards to fuel capacity?
Cheers,
###Ultra Long Hauler###
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Getting 100% of the fuel in is rather aircraft type dependant, but for my experience not possible, or to be expected. If you do, and then leave the plane for any time, it will probably vent some overboard for reasons of aircraft attitude, temperature and pressure changes.
If you need all of that fuel for your planned flight, you're expecting too much from the plane. Concentrate more on very effective use of fuel and optimum power settings, rather than squeezing every last drop in, then plan your flight with the required and wise reserves, and you'll be fine. Some planes just cannot do some things, and range is certainly a limit for all types!
That said, I really like planes with mulitple tanks, so you can safely run some tanks bone dry, and then have a good idea what is left. A Cessna 310 I used to fly had 6 tanks. You could run 4 dry, and know the remaining fuel with some precision. Ideal arrangement if you managed it well.
If you need all of that fuel for your planned flight, you're expecting too much from the plane. Concentrate more on very effective use of fuel and optimum power settings, rather than squeezing every last drop in, then plan your flight with the required and wise reserves, and you'll be fine. Some planes just cannot do some things, and range is certainly a limit for all types!
That said, I really like planes with mulitple tanks, so you can safely run some tanks bone dry, and then have a good idea what is left. A Cessna 310 I used to fly had 6 tanks. You could run 4 dry, and know the remaining fuel with some precision. Ideal arrangement if you managed it well.
I'm with you, DAR. Absent a regularly checked digital fuel flow then multiple tanks is the way to go. I operate a PA31 with a digital FF and still run tanks dry. If it transpires that I should need the last bit of fuel, I'd rather have a depth of it in a single, known tank instead of a thin layer spread across many...
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If you need all of that fuel for your planned flight, you're expecting too much from the plane. Concentrate more on very effective use of fuel and optimum power settings, rather than squeezing every last drop in, then plan your flight with the required and wise reserves, and you'll be fine. Some planes just cannot do some things, and range is certainly a limit for all types!
That said, I really like planes with mulitple tanks, so you can safely run some tanks bone dry, and then have a good idea what is left. A Cessna 310 I used to fly had 6 tanks. You could run 4 dry, and know the remaining fuel with some precision. Ideal arrangement if you managed it well.
But I get your point, would be good to have.
Correct Pato!
But I took the extended range option--> "double tanks" in each wing, see above. It´s not really double though……….
In Portuguese, it describes the additional 40 liters in the below document:
http://www.aerobravo.com.br/imagens/patriot_pdf.pdf
Which by the way, explains my user name, HAHA!
###Ultra Long Hauler###
Your operating technique (leaning, power settings, flying in balance etc) is more likely to affect available endurance & range than the limited amount that would spill or overflow.
If you're really curious about it, run the tank dry while the aircraft is in a level position on the ground and then fill the tanks afterwards. Even though the ground attitude is likely to be a little different to in-flight attitudes it's not likely to be significant given the range of possible straight & level pitch attitudes.
If you're really curious about it, run the tank dry while the aircraft is in a level position on the ground and then fill the tanks afterwards. Even though the ground attitude is likely to be a little different to in-flight attitudes it's not likely to be significant given the range of possible straight & level pitch attitudes.
Moderator
After my very favourable C310 flying, and getting happily use to managing six fuel tanks, a friend and I ferried a Cessna 303 eastbound across the Atlantic via Greenland and Iceland. The trip was within the aircraft's internal fuel range capability, with appropriate alternates. But, it is still un-nerving having only two tanks (left and right), and seeing the quantity indicators bouncing between 1/4 and empty, and not seeing Iceland yet! I would rather have had four empty, and two surely indicating more than half full!
That would make my hackles rise. It's an interesting experience trying to explain the logic of a C310/402 fuel system to someone not familiar with it. Then something 'clicks' and they seem to understand it.
If they really get it, then ask them how to access fuel from the opposite aux. tank during single engine ops. The manual says it can't be done but there's a way.
If they really get it, then ask them how to access fuel from the opposite aux. tank during single engine ops. The manual says it can't be done but there's a way.
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Correct Pato!
But I took the extended range option--> "double tanks" in each wing, see above. It´s not really double though……….
But I took the extended range option--> "double tanks" in each wing, see above. It´s not really double though……….
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Go there and get back without worrying about juice.
You get better food whilst flying the coast though……..
Well, we did the trip……..I left the plane where she was for the pre-flight; nice and level. Fuel was leaking a bit through the vent during my warm up and taxiing. It sure made my passenger look worried at that vent pipe now and then……….although I explained to him numerous times what the story was.
But once airborne, that was it, the flow stopped……..so I estimate the total loss at about a gallon or so.
Next time I will know when to quit!
5000RPM, 30 inches manifold pressure--> 6,2 gallons an hour according to my sensors, all in all not bad.
Cheers,
###Ultra Long Hauler###
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What I have found is that parking in a hot place causes a significant fuel loss.
Avgas expands about 0.1% per degC so if you take on fuel (to max capacity) from a say +10C tank and then park in the sun and the wings reach +40C, you can expect to lose 3% of your tank volume.
If your wings are black then all bets are off. You could lose 5-6%.
The most I have seen is about 2 USG i.e. 1 USG from each tank. That is about 2.3% (my usable fuel is 86.2 USG). The drop in the fuel level was about 1" and on a later occassion I measured how much that is worth, by filling up 1" short and noting the pump reading, then filling right up.
You get bigger errors from 3rd World pumps though. I recall one bowser which was 6% out. I vaguely recall that was in Hania (LGSA) in Greece. Funnily enough the error is always against you
Well, except one, which was a bowser on the IOM which under-read by 7% In the UK and Germany the pumps are always within 1%.
I have a fuel totaliser which is accurate to about 1% so I see all kinds of funny stuff. In practice it is difficult to get better than 2% of what you think you have, due to fuel expansion and resulting losses. And the engine power is mass flow dependent whereas fuel metering is volume dependent
Avgas expands about 0.1% per degC so if you take on fuel (to max capacity) from a say +10C tank and then park in the sun and the wings reach +40C, you can expect to lose 3% of your tank volume.
If your wings are black then all bets are off. You could lose 5-6%.
The most I have seen is about 2 USG i.e. 1 USG from each tank. That is about 2.3% (my usable fuel is 86.2 USG). The drop in the fuel level was about 1" and on a later occassion I measured how much that is worth, by filling up 1" short and noting the pump reading, then filling right up.
You get bigger errors from 3rd World pumps though. I recall one bowser which was 6% out. I vaguely recall that was in Hania (LGSA) in Greece. Funnily enough the error is always against you
Well, except one, which was a bowser on the IOM which under-read by 7% In the UK and Germany the pumps are always within 1%.I have a fuel totaliser which is accurate to about 1% so I see all kinds of funny stuff. In practice it is difficult to get better than 2% of what you think you have, due to fuel expansion and resulting losses. And the engine power is mass flow dependent whereas fuel metering is volume dependent
