Currency requirements

[PilotPieces]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice regarding the currency of my licence.

I obtained my PPL June 2010 and flew 50 hours P1 + 2 hours P/UT in the first 12 months. In the next 12 months (June 2011-June 2012) I have only flown 5 hours P1.

I am currently in Canada and most likely will be until past June 2012. So my understanding is that I need to complete 12 hours (7 hours more) from now until June 2012 + 1 hour with an instructor and have a signiture from an examiner?

If I was to obtain a temporary Transport Canada licence, issued under the conditions of my JAA licence, would any hours accumulated count towards that 12 hour requirement? I assume so, but then what about the examiners signiture?

I am completely out of the loop with the EASA changes so need to do my homework with that respect but does that throw another spanner in the works?

Any help greatly appreciated

[BillieBob]

Any hours gained in Canada will count towards the experience requirements for revalidation. However, the hour with an instructor must be done with a JAA FI and the licence must be signed by a JAA authorised examiner. Revalidation/renewal requirements under EASA are pretty much the same as under JAR-FCL except that the flight experience must be gained in an EASA aircraft and mandatory refresher training is required to renew an expired type or class rating.

[BackPacker]

PP, the other way to revalidate your class rating is by simply doing a flight test with an examiner. Funnily enough, there is no minimum duration for that test, so if you are current you may well find that doing the exam is cheaper than the one hour with an instructor. And a lot cheaper if you add in the additional 7 hours you're lacking for the reval by experience anyway.

You could even consider letting the whole thing expire until you get back, and do the exam then. If your class rating is expired for less than five years, the exam for getting it renewed again is still pretty simple.

For a plain JAR-FCL PPL like you EASA is not going to make a big difference. From april 2012 onwards you will have to abide by EASA Part-FCL and EASA Part-MED but at your level they're virtually identical to the JAR regulations that are currently in the ANO. And when you eventually renew your PPL in 2015 it will say EASA instead of JAR.

[S-Works]

where in Canada are you? I will be in Halifax (Debert actually) and Vancouver in April/May. I can do a skill test or your hours instructional flight. Drop me a PM.

[peterh337]

the flight experience must be gained in an EASA aircraft

Does that mean EASA-reg aircraft? Or ones with an EASA TC?

[dublinpilot]

Also watch out that the examiner needs to sign the class rating page in your log book BEFORE it expires.

It's no use getting them to sign it the following day. One it expires you need to go fly with an examiner to get your class rating back.

[Maoraigh1]

the flight experience must be gained in an EASA aircraft

Is that certain? (Meaning EASA type)

[BillieBob]

An EASA aircraft in this context is any aircraft not listed in Annex II to the Basic Regulation and yes, it is certain.

[ifitaintboeing]

the flight experience must be gained in an EASA aircraft

This is inaccurate, as experience gained in any SEP will count, so LAAers and any Annex II pilots can use experience on those aircraft to revalidate - this was one of the things which was amended.

See 3.5 here

[peterh337]

The thing which is important to me is whether one can prolong one's UK/JAA PPL and UK/JAA IR by flying an N-reg aircraft, on the privileges of FAA papers.

I am not sure if this worked in the past for the PPL. I let my UK PPL lapse by more than 5 years (and then had to renew with an examiner) but the big Q is whether at some point I would have had to re-set all the PPL exams?

On the JAA IR, I have understood that if you never renew it (using the annual flight test) but are flying IFR on foreign papers, then you never have to re-sit the exams and can just renew the IR by doing the annual flight test, but (a) I have never seen this clearly written down and (b) am not sure if this will continue under EASA.

Does anyone have any references for this?

[mad_jock]

peter they have changed that rule.

There is a thread in the middle east forum about it.

Overnight the caa went from saying that an ICAO IR kept your exams live to you will have to sit them again if your JAR IR is out by 7 years. As you might expect this has screwed quite a few pros in the middle east.

[BillieBob]

This is inaccurate, as experience gained in any SEP will count

The reference that you quote states that "....the CAA considers that all hours flown in the specified capacity in any aircraft of the relevant class/type using the EASA licence may be credited". I understand that you may interpret this as including flights in Annex II aircraft (assuming that the UK CAA makes EASA licences valid on those aircraft) but this is not the view of EASA. Some changes were made to allow for some Annex II SEP experience to be accepted for the LAPL requirements but this did not extend to other licences and ratings. With that single exception, the basic premise remains that Part-FCL relates only to EASA aeroplanes, as stated in the Basic Regulation.

[Aware]

Morning Peter, Just had this situation with a student of mine, who found renewing JAR IR expensive every year, he had a multi so about £1500.00 a throw. He does not have his own aircraft. Also has an FAA IR which of course is self renewing according to approaches etc:

Answer was this from CAA:

Up to 5 years IRE can renew.
Over 5 years CAA Staff test again.
Over 7 years CAA Staff test again + retake all the exams.

He like me is hoping for the IMC to transfer to an EASA licence, at some stage, as all this becomes expensive.

And if you do no need airways, or do long distances IMC usually does the job.

[BEagle]

No, the CAA have said that any experience in the relevant class will count towards revalidation criteria, irrespective of whether the aircraft is EASA or non-EASA.

However, in response to a query from the Swiss, EASA stated that this will be clarified by FCL.002. Which won't be until 2013 at the earliest....

[Aware]

Not sure about the FAA situation regarding exams, but seven years seems to have always been the term at which you needed to do them again, under JAR anyway. Im sure its a revenue making exercise all this exams expiring nonsense. I could understand if the exams were relevant to what your were actually doing, but as we know they are not. They are just another hoop to jump through.

[peterh337]

Overnight the caa went from saying that an ICAO IR kept your exams live to you will have to sit them again if your JAR IR is out by 7 years. As you might expect this has screwed quite a few pros in the middle east.

I have heard this from elsewhere, very recently, too, affecting some non-UK ATPs.

Surely that is legally actionable, if the pilot can find a written statement on the previous situation? We are talking a very big economic loss in re-doing the stuff.

Answer was this from CAA:

Up to 5 years IRE can renew.
Over 5 years CAA Staff test again.
Over 7 years CAA Staff test again + retake all the exams.

That is super info, thank you, but presumably you want to get that in writing so if they go back on it you can pursue it appropriately

What I am thinking is that I don't need to renew the JAA IR until the EASA FCL dual-paper requirement is clarified, which won't be before April 2014. An IR check flight will be £150 for the IRE plus the flight. I don't mind the flight (the practice is always good) but the £150 seems a waste if you don't need it. I can bang ILSs for far less than that, with a free safety pilot.

He like me is hoping for the IMC to transfer to an EASA licence, at some stage, as all this becomes expensive.

And if you do no need airways, or do long distances IMC usually does the job.

It did me pretty well for my pre-2006 long trips, but having had the IR since then I would not want to go back to "official VFR" because of various foreign ATC practices which screw one up right when least expected.

It's totally perverted that one puts all that work into getting the IR, only to do trips like this where one logs ~20hrs of which ~10mins is instrument time.

If one did such a trip under VFR, the instrument time would be a lot higher (but obviously you would not want to log it ) and there would be a much higher risk of icing, etc, because you don't have airspace access.

Not sure about the FAA situation regarding exams,

They never lapse. If you fall out of the 6/6 IR rolling currency, you do an IPC. The PPL ones never expire; you just do a BFR at any time. Demonstrated competence = very sensible. But the regulator makes no money out of that, because the renewal is done with a freelance instructor...

but seven years seems to have always been the term at which you needed to do them again, under JAR anyway.

I don't think so - if you flew on another ICAO IR in the meantime and could prove it.

Yes the exams are rubbish.

[mad_jock]

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/46...n-7-years.html

here is the thread.

[peterh337]

Interesting reading.

Legal action must be the way.

Doing the 7 IR exams, for anybody but especially a long serving airline pilot, is bonkers. Their relevance to the real world is somewhere between zilch and zero and I know - I've just done them. And read through the 3000 pages of the GTS study material (goode olde ex RAF 1950s finest PPSC stuff).

One could understand various safeguards but resitting those hugely irrelevant exams?

[mad_jock]

I disagree they are useless I have used quite a bit from them

But agree that if you are working there isn't much point repeating what ever licsense you hold.

[PilotPieces]

Thanks to everyone for the info. I just want to clarify the bridge between revalidating my licence to fitting in with the EASA change over.

So in the next few months I either do my 7 hours + 1 with an instructor and get the examiners signiture OR let it lapse and just to the skills test. Assuming I do the skills test in June, my JAA licence is still valid for 3 years and I just have my class rating valid for another 12 months. As far as EASA is concerned nothing really effects me until I renew my actual licence?

Off to Transport Canada shortly to get a temporary licence here...they told me all I have to do is show up with all paperwork and I will be issued one but I suspect what they mean is show up and they will issue one in a months time. I think I can see myself letting it lapse and doing the skills test back in the UK anyway.

Cheers

PP