Deadlines not to miss for UK ppl holders.
JAR-FCL 3 compliant medical certificates will be deemed to be EASA Part-MED Medical Certificates on 8th April 2012; i.e. they will become EASA Medical Certificates
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: london
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the reply. Nothing is unclear about that statement that refers to April 2012.
My question was about the meaning of the text that applies to the July 2012 statement re medicals. It says from the 1st July 2012 existing JAA class I and II holders can revalidate or renew to obtain an EASA medical certificate. The meaning of the English suggests that revalidation as an EASA certificate may be required even where the existing JAA medical is regarded as an EASA part-med certificate.
I suspect I am the only one that this is not obvious to, but just thought I would ask.
My question was about the meaning of the text that applies to the July 2012 statement re medicals. It says from the 1st July 2012 existing JAA class I and II holders can revalidate or renew to obtain an EASA medical certificate. The meaning of the English suggests that revalidation as an EASA certificate may be required even where the existing JAA medical is regarded as an EASA part-med certificate.
I suspect I am the only one that this is not obvious to, but just thought I would ask.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have hoped that when you renew your JAA Class 1 or 2 medical then you will automatically get the EASA version, i.e. nothing actually changes and there isn't anything you need to do.
Is that correct?
AFAIK EASA is nothing nothing of great significance on the medical front. They are retaining the stupid Class 1 audiogram for the IR.
There is some fun stuff regarding renewing a medical in a different country. The foreign AME will need to be briefed by your home AME. No doubt there will be a charge for that
But it is to discourage medical tourism.
Is that correct?
AFAIK EASA is nothing nothing of great significance on the medical front. They are retaining the stupid Class 1 audiogram for the IR.
There is some fun stuff regarding renewing a medical in a different country. The foreign AME will need to be briefed by your home AME. No doubt there will be a charge for that
But it is to discourage medical tourism.
The only significance of 1 July is that is the date that the UK has decided to bring into force the Annexes to the Aircrew Regulation (e.g. Part-FCL, Part-MED, etc.). The Regulation itself will become EU law on 8 April and there is nothing that anyone can now do to prevent that. The option to delay the implementation of the Annexes was agreed by the EC EASA Committee last year but depends on an amendment to the Aircrew Regulation being in place by 8 April - this is by no means certain and if the amendment isn't in place, the Annexes will also become law on 8 April. This is one of the reasons why there is confusion (not to say a certain degree of panic) within the CAA.
From the date that Part-MED becomes EU law (either 8 Apr or 1 Jul depending on whether the amendment is issued in time) medical examinations will be conducted in accordance with Part-MED. However, any medical certificates issued in accordance with JAR-FCL prior to the implementation date of he Annexes (whatever it is) will be deemed to have been issued in accordance with Part-MED. There is nothing anywhere that suggests that the holder of a valid medical certificate issue under JAR-FCL 3 should have to do anything other than renew it in accordance with the existing arrangements.
From the date that Part-MED becomes EU law (either 8 Apr or 1 Jul depending on whether the amendment is issued in time) medical examinations will be conducted in accordance with Part-MED. However, any medical certificates issued in accordance with JAR-FCL prior to the implementation date of he Annexes (whatever it is) will be deemed to have been issued in accordance with Part-MED. There is nothing anywhere that suggests that the holder of a valid medical certificate issue under JAR-FCL 3 should have to do anything other than renew it in accordance with the existing arrangements.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where is the 2 year derogation on the EASA dual papers requirement for N-reg pilots etc, and is that similarly affected?
Incidentally I have not found anything on the 15hr IR conversion route (which is quite a big deadline for some pilots) but it seems that it is just carrying on because nobody knows what else to do...
Incidentally I have not found anything on the 15hr IR conversion route (which is quite a big deadline for some pilots) but it seems that it is just carrying on because nobody knows what else to do...
The derogation for non-commercial operation by third country licence holders is already written into the Regulation (Article 12, para 4).
The so called '15 hr IR conversion route' is unlikely to be affected in practice - the actual requirement at present is that training is at the discretion of the FTO but may not be less than 15 hours. Whilst Article 8 of the Regulation suggests that the competent authority should itself determine the credit to be awarded to each applicant, based upon a recommendation from an ATO, the decision is, in fact, likely to be delegated entirely to the ATO provided that a certain minimum training time is observed (e.g. 15 hours).
The so called '15 hr IR conversion route' is unlikely to be affected in practice - the actual requirement at present is that training is at the discretion of the FTO but may not be less than 15 hours. Whilst Article 8 of the Regulation suggests that the competent authority should itself determine the credit to be awarded to each applicant, based upon a recommendation from an ATO, the decision is, in fact, likely to be delegated entirely to the ATO provided that a certain minimum training time is observed (e.g. 15 hours).
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Popham
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was about to wander down to the Gatwick Joke Factory to trade-up my UK-PPL for a JAR-PPL.
(* I do acknowledge the weasel-wording-ness of using the word "saved" in that context)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Irv
Oh good someone who knows what they are talking about and who won't tell me I should have read all the previous threads (which, of course, I should have done already!)
I have had a UK-PPL since the 1980s and never had any desire to pay the CAA for a JAR licence. I fly mostly EASA a/c so I understand that after 8.4.14 I will not be able to so unless I have an EASA licence.
BUT I also have an IMC rating which I would also like to continue using in EASA a/c - well at least until EASA abolishes it!
The CAA FCL person that I spoke to seem to indicate that there would be NO fee to issue a EASA-PPL to a JAR-PPL holder. (I find it fairly unbelievable that the CAA will do anything for FREE!)
The general opinion at my flying club is that I should apply for a JAR licence now in order to continue using the IMC rating after 8.4.14. as the CAA will not issue JAR licences after 01.07.12. There was also some cencern that an EASA licence would not be issued against a UK licence.
I have just got my SRG1199 English Level 6 signed by an examiner but not yet applied for a JAR licence.
So Irv, do I really need to throw £181 at the CAA in order to continue using my IMC rating? Your help would be much appreciated, please.
Oh good someone who knows what they are talking about and who won't tell me I should have read all the previous threads (which, of course, I should have done already!)
I have had a UK-PPL since the 1980s and never had any desire to pay the CAA for a JAR licence. I fly mostly EASA a/c so I understand that after 8.4.14 I will not be able to so unless I have an EASA licence.
BUT I also have an IMC rating which I would also like to continue using in EASA a/c - well at least until EASA abolishes it!
The CAA FCL person that I spoke to seem to indicate that there would be NO fee to issue a EASA-PPL to a JAR-PPL holder. (I find it fairly unbelievable that the CAA will do anything for FREE!)
The general opinion at my flying club is that I should apply for a JAR licence now in order to continue using the IMC rating after 8.4.14. as the CAA will not issue JAR licences after 01.07.12. There was also some cencern that an EASA licence would not be issued against a UK licence.
I have just got my SRG1199 English Level 6 signed by an examiner but not yet applied for a JAR licence.
So Irv, do I really need to throw £181 at the CAA in order to continue using my IMC rating? Your help would be much appreciated, please.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
distaff_beancounter
You sum up my position too!
I can't see a reason to convert to JAR before July until the IMC migration issue is resolved.
You sum up my position too!
I can't see a reason to convert to JAR before July until the IMC migration issue is resolved.
I have a lapsed IMC rating. I have a current lifetime CAA pre-JAR license, with class 2 JAR medical. Am I correct in that the CAA pre-JAR license will continue, (with the attached IMC if I revalidate it), in parallel with the EASA PPL I expect to get?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a lapsed IMC rating. I have a current lifetime CAA pre-JAR license, with class 2 JAR medical. Am I correct in that the CAA pre-JAR license will continue, (with the attached IMC if I revalidate it), in parallel with the EASA PPL I expect to get?
So while theoretically you could use your IMC in those non-EASA aircraft most of those will be 'Permit' aircraft that are only certified for 'DAY-VFR' and cannot legally be flown IFR in IMC!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Popham
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You sum up my position too!
I can't see a reason to convert to JAR before July until the IMC migration issue is resolved.
I can't see a reason to convert to JAR before July until the IMC migration issue is resolved.
PERSONAL OPINION: If you have an IMC rating in a JAA PPL now, it will last (in EASA aircraft) until April 2014 OR until the JAA PPL expires, OR until you apply for any new rating in the JAA PPL from July 2012. If the JAA PPL expired in say Dec 2012, you would receive an EASA PPL, which could not have an IMC rating in it, but I think/hope you will be issued with a CAA UK PPL at the same time, with an IMC rating in it, to take you through to April 2014 in EASA aircraft. One reason I think that is because the CAA changed the ANO in 2000 to stop themselves issuing a CAA UK PPL, but their recent consultation on changing the ANO for 2012 includes letting them issue CAA UK PPLs again, and I think that is part of a solution to buy more time to sort out a permanent solution.
Still personal opinion, I think/hope that if you apply from scratch for a new IMC rating after July 2012 and before April 2014 (or until there is some final solution), I think/hope you will get it issued inside a UK PPL, either one that you have now, or in a new UK PPL they will issue with it.
As things stand right now (i.e. disregarding the sterling efforts BEagle and others to make sense of the disaster area that is EASA) distaff-beancounter's statement is correct - an IMC rating cannot be attached to an EASA licence. However, it is not necessary to retain a JAA licence to ensure that the privileges may be exercised until 2014 as the IMC rating may also be attached to a UK national licence. There will, of course, have to be a full structure of UK national licences (PPL, CPL and ATPL) to allow the operation of Annex II aircraft by pilots who cannot or will not obtain an EASA licence. National licences (including any ratings entered in them) will be valid for use on any EASA aircraft until 8 April 2014 and on EASA aircraft that are within the privileges of the LAPL until 8 April 2015 by which time, it is hoped, common sense might have prevailed.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to Irv and BillieBob for making things a bit clearer!
I just want to carry on flying EASA aircaft and I presently hold just a UK-PPL+IMCrating.
I think that I now understand the situation on the IMCr - that is, after 8th April 2014 it cannot be used in EASA aircraft (although it seems likely that the CAA/EASA may move the goal posts again before 2014!)
When I phoned the CAA-FCL a few weeks ago the woman to whom I spoke implied that the CAA would not issue an EASA-PPL direct from a UK-PPL, only from a JAA-PPL. While the upgrade from UK-PPL to JAA-PPL would cost £181, the upgrade from JAA-PPL to EASA-PPL would be free of charge. Hence I assumed that I should apply for a JAR-PPL before 1st July 2012 (the latest date for issuing JAA licences) to ensure that I can continue flying EASA aircraft after 8th April 2014.
So if I do nothing now, I will save £181, but will I put myself at a disadvantage for later on?
I just want to carry on flying EASA aircaft and I presently hold just a UK-PPL+IMCrating.
I think that I now understand the situation on the IMCr - that is, after 8th April 2014 it cannot be used in EASA aircraft (although it seems likely that the CAA/EASA may move the goal posts again before 2014!)
When I phoned the CAA-FCL a few weeks ago the woman to whom I spoke implied that the CAA would not issue an EASA-PPL direct from a UK-PPL, only from a JAA-PPL. While the upgrade from UK-PPL to JAA-PPL would cost £181, the upgrade from JAA-PPL to EASA-PPL would be free of charge. Hence I assumed that I should apply for a JAR-PPL before 1st July 2012 (the latest date for issuing JAA licences) to ensure that I can continue flying EASA aircraft after 8th April 2014.
So if I do nothing now, I will save £181, but will I put myself at a disadvantage for later on?
National licences (including any ratings entered in them) will be valid for use on any EASA aircraft until 8 April 2014 and on EASA aircraft that are within the privileges of the LAPL until 8 April 2015
I was under the impression that the 3 year derogation only applied if the use of the licence was within the privileges of the LAPL, not the type of aircraft. An IMC rating, or an IR, can't be used in EASA aircraft after 8th April 2014
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Popham
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if I do nothing now, I will save £181, but will I put myself at a disadvantage for later on?
In the same document, pages 19 and 20 tell you what they expect you to do to get an EASA PPL from a UK Non-JAR PPL (last line of table, bottom of page 20 is the PPL), which is that you need 70 hours total time and 'demonstrate use of radio aids' - just like getting a JAA-PPL from a UK non-JAA PPL today.
Also if you look back at the top of that table on page 19, you will see you must have the English Proficiency, and demonstrate a knowledge of FCL and OPS, and of course elsewhere you'll find you have to have the correct medical current at the time.
This 'demonstrate FCL and OPS' may well be a link to both main documents and you signing to say you have read/understood them, but we'll see.... that was certainly how they got people to say they understood JAR-FCL, if you look at today's form (1104) to get a UK CAA PPL to UK JAA PPL today, section 7 of the form says:
"I certify that I have studied the relevant parts of the JAA Requirements (PPL(A) – see AMC FCL 1.125, PPL(H) see AMC FCL 2.125) and
have assimilated the knowledge required for the issue of a JAR-FCL PPL.
Signature ........................."
have assimilated the knowledge required for the issue of a JAR-FCL PPL.
Signature ........................."
