IMC RATING
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Sorry can someone care to explain to me what this whole thread means? IMC rating will no longer be running from XX date? I have researched but nothing makes sense
Join Date: May 2005
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In a nutshell:
As from 1st July, you will only be able to add an IMC rating to a CAA licence - you won't be able to add it onto an EASA licence (which a JAA PPL will become), and you won't be able to use it on EASA aircraft.
So - if you want to fly anything but permit aircraft and exercise the privileges of the IMC rating, you need to get it on your JAA/EASA licence before the 30th of June.
If you want to fly a permit aircraft on a CAA UK licence with an IMC, you can add that to your licence post 30th June.
The IMC itself will be valid until 2014 - after that, it will cease to exist. As far as EASA licences are concerned, there is talk of grandfathering/converting the rating to some form of UK only restricted IR.
As from 1st July, you will only be able to add an IMC rating to a CAA licence - you won't be able to add it onto an EASA licence (which a JAA PPL will become), and you won't be able to use it on EASA aircraft.
So - if you want to fly anything but permit aircraft and exercise the privileges of the IMC rating, you need to get it on your JAA/EASA licence before the 30th of June.
If you want to fly a permit aircraft on a CAA UK licence with an IMC, you can add that to your licence post 30th June.
The IMC itself will be valid until 2014 - after that, it will cease to exist. As far as EASA licences are concerned, there is talk of grandfathering/converting the rating to some form of UK only restricted IR.
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Can anyone confirm that if you have already started an approved IMC course prior to 30th June that you can finish the course and have the IMCr added to your licence?
Join Date: May 2005
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As someone in the same situation, speaking with CAA PLD, you need to have the skills test passed, and the application form into the before them 30th June.
The IMC is valid for 25 months from date of test.
I'm not taking any chances, and will try and get the course, exam and test completed in early May and get it off to them with 6 weeks to spare (so I can hopefully have it in hand by the 30th June).
After the 30th June you can add it to a CAA national licence, but not an EASA one.
The IMC is valid for 25 months from date of test.
I'm not taking any chances, and will try and get the course, exam and test completed in early May and get it off to them with 6 weeks to spare (so I can hopefully have it in hand by the 30th June).
After the 30th June you can add it to a CAA national licence, but not an EASA one.
Last edited by Slopey; 18th Apr 2012 at 10:04.
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Interesting.
When you say it will cease to exist, you mean they'll no longer being training for it. Or everyone who has an IMC won't have it after that date? That's a shame, IR is much mroe expensive than IMC.
When you say it will cease to exist, you mean they'll no longer being training for it. Or everyone who has an IMC won't have it after that date? That's a shame, IR is much mroe expensive than IMC.
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(Currently) It will cease to exist in 2014 - there will be no such thing as the IMC rating after that date.
You can still train to fly aircraft by sole reference to the instruments, and fly approaches, but you won't be able to get a rating or licence endorsement by which you can use the training except for the IR.
You can still train to fly aircraft by sole reference to the instruments, and fly approaches, but you won't be able to get a rating or licence endorsement by which you can use the training except for the IR.
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I disagree with your summary
(Currently) It will cease to exist in 2014 - there will be no such thing as the IMC rating after that date.
You can still train to fly aircraft by sole reference to the instruments, and fly approaches, but you won't be able to get a rating or licence endorsement by which you can use the training except for the IR.
You can still train to fly aircraft by sole reference to the instruments, and fly approaches, but you won't be able to get a rating or licence endorsement by which you can use the training except for the IR.
The position today is that if you have a JAR licence (which is now officially an EASA PPL, even if it doesn't say so on the front), you can only add an IMC rating to it before 30 June 2012. If you have one on the licence by that time, you should be able to exercise its use until 2014. It's not agreed what happens after that but is extremely likely that the privileges will be continued (grandfathered) after that date. There is likely to be some benefit in getting this added/done before end June, because grandfather rights are expected to be continued in some form while new ratings after that date may be treated differently.
Since the CAA will start printing EASA licences on July 1st, I'd err on the side of caution and try to have any JAR-PPL licence change updated and issued by 30 June just in case the transition to the new system means that JAR-PPL licences can't be physically printed after that date. Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic, but if I were running the transition I'd want to make it binary and not have old/new systems running in parallel for any length of time. It's sure to involve more than just printing the licences on different coloured paper
After 1st July, new IMC ratings can continue to be trained for and examined. I don't see why this couldn't be done in EASA aircraft. But they would be added only to a UK PPL licence - so if you had only an EASA licence you would have to be issued with a parallel UK only one. If you had both an EASA and an UK licence, you could exercise the IMC (in EASA or Annex II aircraft) until April 2014.
Thereafter, the IMC could only be used after 2014 on Annex II aircraft. Hopefully, something better will be agreed in the next couple of months.
Having spent a lot of time, money and effort to get an IMC rating myself before the deadline, I do hope it's been worthwhile.
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I currently have an IMCR, which will expire in October 2012. Does anyone know what might happen in October with regard to getting it re-validated ? I presume I wouldnt be able to assume grandfather rights until 2014 on a rating which had a lapsed expiry date. I wasnt sure whether I would need to get it renewed by the end of June, thinking that perhaps all the IMCR examiners may have to give up this particular line of work.
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Recieved my log book and IMC rating back today via FedEx from the CAA, they have had it since 20th March, so just under a month.
I now have an additional sheet for IMC rating revalidation to go with the SEP rating piece of paper.. Is this correct or should I have sent my SEP sheet in so they could have endorsed that instead with the expiry date of the rating?
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Yes I now also have an additional Rating Revalidation sheet with just "IMC" entered on it. Don't know if this will be amalgamated with the SEP one at some point in the future.
There was no requirement to send the licence with the IMCr application form, so I expect this is all ok.
There was no requirement to send the licence with the IMCr application form, so I expect this is all ok.
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They never reprint the SEP rating on your page unless you are sending the paperwork in for that purpose.
If the SEP rating is revalidated by an examiner, either by experience or proficiency check, he signs your ratings page and you send a form off to notify the CAA.
My understanding is that this is simply kept on record and not necessarily even processed unless they need to for some reason in the future. Next time you get your SEP revalidated, you could get the examiner to add it to the page with any other relevant ratings so you only have one page to worry about.
If the SEP rating is revalidated by an examiner, either by experience or proficiency check, he signs your ratings page and you send a form off to notify the CAA.
My understanding is that this is simply kept on record and not necessarily even processed unless they need to for some reason in the future. Next time you get your SEP revalidated, you could get the examiner to add it to the page with any other relevant ratings so you only have one page to worry about.
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I now have an additional sheet for IMC rating revalidation to go with the SEP rating piece of paper.. Is this correct
Slopey, virtually all of your post is totally incorrect:
The CAA will have no physical method of being able to print JAR-FCL licences after 30 Jun, so the IMCR will have to be included in a supplementary UK licence unless the CAA has found a simpler solution by then. However, you will be able to use it on EASA aircraft until at least Apr 2014.
Wrong! The situation regarding PtoF aircraft is a separate issue and has nothing to do with EASA. LAA has made certain proposals for flying PtoF aircraft in IMC, but this is very much Work in Progress.
The IMCR will NOT 'cease to exist' after 2014. However, how it may be used on EASA aeroplanes after that date is under debate.
As from 1st July, you will only be able to add an IMC rating to a CAA licence - you won't be able to add it onto an EASA licence (which a JAA PPL will become), and you won't be able to use it on EASA aircraft.
So - if you want to fly anything but permit aircraft and exercise the privileges of the IMC rating, you need to get it on your JAA/EASA licence before the 30th of June. If you want to fly a permit aircraft on a CAA UK licence with an IMC, you can add that to your licence post 30th June.
The IMC itself will be valid until 2014 - after that, it will cease to exist. As far as EASA licences are concerned, there is talk of grandfathering/converting the rating to some form of UK only restricted IR.
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I was involved in a "save the IMCR" campaign a few years ago, which was started by Fuji here.
Some people thought it was stupid and I got some phone calls suggesting I should not be involved but some good lobbying and awareness raising was done.
Reading this debate ebbing and flowing, I don't see anything has actually changed since that infamous EASA+CAA "IMCR conference" in 2008 (which I went to) at which Eric Sivel famously said to a packed hall that he is in favour of the IMCR "but don't tell anybody because it will cause me trouble"
At the time the IMCR was going to disappear once EASA took over, unless it became pan-European (which would obviously never happen).
The one thing which possibly has changed is the CAA realising that the IMCR can continue on non-CofA planes post-EASA, but that is a virtually useless privilege since nearly all of them cannot fly IFR legally.
We have also got the FCL008/CBM IR proposal but that will never be a direct IMCR replacement because the final test is the full UK CAA IR flight test, which takes a fair bit of training to have any chance of passing.
I think the IMCR will be saved at the last minute - largely because EASA has much less power today than in 2008 when they could just be totally arrogant - through some paperwork dodge.
Some people thought it was stupid and I got some phone calls suggesting I should not be involved but some good lobbying and awareness raising was done.
Reading this debate ebbing and flowing, I don't see anything has actually changed since that infamous EASA+CAA "IMCR conference" in 2008 (which I went to) at which Eric Sivel famously said to a packed hall that he is in favour of the IMCR "but don't tell anybody because it will cause me trouble"
At the time the IMCR was going to disappear once EASA took over, unless it became pan-European (which would obviously never happen).
The one thing which possibly has changed is the CAA realising that the IMCR can continue on non-CofA planes post-EASA, but that is a virtually useless privilege since nearly all of them cannot fly IFR legally.
We have also got the FCL008/CBM IR proposal but that will never be a direct IMCR replacement because the final test is the full UK CAA IR flight test, which takes a fair bit of training to have any chance of passing.
I think the IMCR will be saved at the last minute - largely because EASA has much less power today than in 2008 when they could just be totally arrogant - through some paperwork dodge.
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Thanks for the clarifications all, I was incorrect in thinking that you couldn't use an IMC on a non-EASA licence on an EASA aircraft. Apologies, and Item 5 on the interim statement clarifies that nicely.
As noted by others above, I'm going to attempt to err on the side of caution and get the IMC added to my existing JAA licence prior to the 30th June. (Although if not, I now understand I can get it added to a CAA licence post that date and use it until 2014).
As noted by others above, I'm going to attempt to err on the side of caution and get the IMC added to my existing JAA licence prior to the 30th June. (Although if not, I now understand I can get it added to a CAA licence post that date and use it until 2014).
