Proviation customer care problems

[JDA2012]

As I already posted, my only experience with Proviation was a positive one, however regarding the number of "one post wonders", I would like to point out that the top five results for "Proviation" on Google, without adding any additional words, are currently:

1) Proviation website
2) This thread
3) Proviation Twitter
4) Proviation Facebook
5) TrustPilot

If you add "Problems" this thread becomes the top result, followed by TrustPilot, then Twitter, TrustPilot (Polish), ResellerRatings, and THEN the Proviation website.

It does seem possible that this thread might attract those with problems, or those who are just curious; as such, it is also possible means that those with problems may be over-represented here as they may find this thread before more official communication channels.

Draw your own conclusions, but in any case, it is unfortunate for Proviation that this site is so high up in the results as it cannot be desirable having such bad publicity so publically associated with your company name. I do hope that such problems as may exist are sorted out since I was perfectly satisfied with my own experience...

[Blues&twos]

Each customer with a problem is a customer with a problem! They can't be over represented in a thread specifically about customers with a problem.

It is also apparent that all of the posters of negative comments have put a good deal of effort into using official channels of communication - with little or no success. That itself is one of the main causes of complaint.

[abgd]

I've posted a little in the past, and perhaps without sufficient explanation, about my experiments with stylistic analysis, which I continue to find endlessly amusing.

For discussions of what stylometry is, see the Wikipedia article:

Stylometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or perhaps:

The Professor Who Declared, It's J.K. Rowling - Technology - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Whilst it's always possible that there are a few people who are posting under false pretences (e.g. commercial competitors), one thing that comes out clearly is that a lot of different individuals have contributed to the thread. If there is any such fraud, it's either not widespread (i.e. superfluous) or it is rather sophisticated.

Most contributors seem to echo my own personal experience of the company, which is why I tend to believe that the vast majority of posts here are genuine.

[echo-romeo]

Flight Bag Order with Proviation

Hi,

Flightbag ordered 15th July 2013 - a couple of e-mails followed advising a delay of a few days - then total silence - e-mails and phone calls ignored - no-one answers the phone no one answers e-mails.

Started a dispute procedure via Paypal last week.

Last week Proviation finally responded to one of my e-mails (Or perhaps the Paypal dispute ?) requesting a refund and asked if they could complete the order if they got the goods to me by the end of the week which was 23rd August 2013 - nothing received and no more e-mails or phone calls.

Finally took out a dispute via Paypal and got my money back today 26th August 2013.

Not an happy experience. I wouldn't recommend using this company at all really - but if you do, make sure it's by Credit Card or Paypal - but why bother - just go to a company with a good record - it would be much easier.

[CaptainChaos981]

Proviation

I found this thread after typing in proviation problems after HAVING a problem. I do this with nearly every large purchase now prior to purchasing.

At the end of the day the review above summaries many of this threads Prune user issues. Placed order, took money, no goods, cannot get money back.

OH and if you type into Google "Proviation reviews", top results are

Resellerratings.com ratings = LOW,
Scambook,
Scam advisor

Draw your own conclusions. I have

[bushwakker]

proviation online shop

i have recently had a bad experience with these people, they do not answer the phone or emails. the only way to contact them is via their text box on their site, but even then all they tried to do is stall for extra time and could not tell me even after 2 weeks when my order would be delivered. a few more days seems to be all they can say. stay well away is my advice.

[First_Principal]

...one thing that comes out clearly is that a lot of different individuals have contributed to the thread. If there is any such fraud, it's either not widespread (i.e. superfluous) or it is rather sophisticated.

@abgd, thanks for the pointers to Stylometry, most interesting.

I should think that some correlation with IP numbers of Poster's, and other such detail, would be valuable in terms of providing additional authority to your thesis. While I imagine this information is available to site admins it may not be of sufficient importance to employ here, although I can think of other threads and/or erstwhile users of the site that might bear a closer look...

FP.

[echo-romeo]

Hi,

Strange that there should be doubt or conspiracy concerning Proviation - My message above is very genuine and was intended to prevent others having a bad experience. If anyone has any doubts about these threads then buy something from Proviation, e-mail them, phone their landline - 01582 204986 - just see what happens and then judge for yourself - but do use a credit card or Paypal !!

BTW A Proviation competitor despatched a Flight Bag to me within a couple of hours of receiving my order and were excellent on communication.
Quite a simple and pleasant business practice really !

Cheers

[echo-romeo]

Hi,

One final warning for any Paypal transaction that goes wrong......... There is a 45 day limit to make your claim - so don't be strung along by suppliers saying that your goods will be with you shortly if you would be prepared to wait a little bit longer - set a target date for your goods arriving and when you will claim your money back if they don't - don't take it to the 45 day limit to prevent arguments.

Cheers
Paul

[GAAV8R]

I just picked up the tail end of this thread, but I bought my PPL manuals (some time ago) from Proviation and they arrived quickly - no hassles. I bought some charts off them - no probs.

But that was some time ago and, while I haven't read the whole thread, if they are not supplying on time and going very silent, it could be the sign of financial instability???

[PaulKerry]

When something you order from them arrives quickly, it is probably down to the genuine retailer. When something does not arrive on time, it is most likely because Proviation are not aware that the genuine retailer does not have the stock or... cannot be bothered to update their webpage to reflect the fact that the genuine retailer doesn't have the stock (they get your money anyway, right? And if they hang on and deflect you for long enough, the retailer might obtain the stock and ship it).

What am I talking about when I say "genuine" retailer? Proviation appear to be the kind of drop-shipping merchant you might find on eBay only not as conscientious. On eBay one cannot simply flag poor feedback and make it vanish so they're motivated to provide good service from the outset.

My advice would be to cut out the middle man - he's taking your money for doing basically nothing - go directly to the genuine retailer. It's a far more reliable way of doing business and nowhere near as much hassle when things go wrong (and they so frequently do with Proviation - Current TrustPilot ratings: 5th out of 5 in the category Aviation and 32nd out of 43 in the category Hobby ).

Paul..

[ROAR Performance]

I run three small companies and have suppliers in 14 countries. Proviation is the worst company I have ever had the misfortune to work with. I ordered a Go Pro on 22th June, which after two weeks didn't arrive (despite showing in stock). I cancelled the order in early July and have been trying desperately since to get my refund. I have sent over 10 emails and called close to 50 times. Only twice actually managing to speak to anyone. THIS IS THE WORST COMPANY I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH! DO NOT USE THEM!

[Mojo_69]

Advertising Standards Authority

(despite showing in stock)

Exactly. I ordered a £300 transceiver from Proviation a month ago, which showed as "Product Available from Stock ✓". Only after they'd taken my money did I found out over the next days that they did not have it in stock, and neither did their suppliers. I cancelled my order, and still haven't received my refund, one calendar month later. I subsequently ordered the radio from a real online retailer (that actually did have it in stock), and of course received it within days.

When I complained, Proviation explained their practice in an email to me:
"The in-stock position reflects the fact that we have drop-ship arrangements in place with suppliers if we ever sell out in our own stockroom. On this occasion our main supplier is also out of stock, the delay stemming at Yaesu UK."

I have no problem at all with Proviation acting as a middleman - a 'drop-ship' supplier, as it affords me a greater choice of products, as Proviation themselves point out.

However, claiming "Product Available from Stock ✓" for individual products is purposely misleading - they know full well that they're not in stock, nor do they seem to have any system for checking if even the real suppliers have it in stock (which they did not). The claim is completely disconnected from any stock levels, and Proviation will not correct their advertising, even when they know it to be untrue (the webpage still makes the same claim now). That is purposely misleading, and as far as I'm concerned amounts to scamming me out of my money, which I now seem unable to get back (nor can I get through to them by telephone).

I gave Proviation the chance to change their webpage to reflect that they don't have the product in stock. However, they seem to believe that their practice is acceptable, so (as I told them I would) I have now reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority, to let them decide.

It's a pity; they seem like a sincere company, but they seem unaware that making false claims as a standard business practice is always going to end badly for them. I imagine many of the posters in this thread would be perfectly content if they had chosen to go into their purchases knowing that they would have to wait 'x' months before delivery - they would then have had the choice to proceed with the transaction or go elsewhere (and would hardly be complaining when the lead time was as expected). Instead, however, Proviation seem determined to run their reputation (further) into the ground by pretending that they can supply items that are actually unavailable.

[PaulKerry]

perfectly content if they had chosen to go into their purchases knowing that they would have to wait 'x' months before delivery - they would then have had the choice to proceed with the transaction or go elsewhere

Right. That's called informed choice.
To claim that I have something for sale when I do not and to take your money for a product you expect to be dispatched within a day or two when there is absolutely no chance of that happening and to do so knowingly is (in my book) nothing short of deception. I have spent many hours going over this with Nick and as you reported of your own conversations, he isn't interested in changing his approach, preferring instead to bleat about how damaging poor reviews are to his reputation - It seems that he cannot understand that he is rightly earning these poor reviews and that his treatment of customers is beneath contempt.

Paul..

[Jonzarno]

I gave Proviation the chance to change their webpage to reflect that they don't have the product in stock. However, they seem to believe that their practice is acceptable, so (as I told them I would) I have now reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority, to let them decide.

If your problem is as you describe, you should also report them to the Trading Standards authority in their (not your) area.

As I understand it, the Advertising Standards Authority can only make them stop misleading advertising, the Trading Standards Authority have a very much wider remit.

[cockney steve]

Private prosecution, county court, small claims procedure. Quick, easy, cheap...as soon as your plaint is lodged, the fee is payable by the loser.

IIRC, fees on a sliding scale from under £30. It concentrates the minds of those who have a cavalier attitude to integrity ,honesty and respect for their fellow man.

I have heard a con-artist openly boast that if his victim is that stupid and gullible, they didn't deserve to havethe asset in the first place.

not a nice attitude.
sorry to see this thread rumbling on. obviously Nick isn't listening.

[CaptainChaos981]

A bad business model with no service

"I just picked up the tail end of this thread, but I bought my PPL manuals (some time ago) from Proviation and they arrived quickly - no hassles. I bought some charts off them - no probs."

Of course not, because the genuine retailer had them in stock. So he makes money by simply relaying an order from you to a genuine shop and then takes the profit.
but he does not put that profit back into service

Proviation is a similar business model to how amazon or ebuyer approached the internet but without the safe guards. List every single product on a suppliers price list but in PV's case, don't bother to set up a stock feed or discontinuation system.

So after a very short time you end up with products not available but your website says they are, and products that have been removed but showing as still current.

This might work for generic products but aviation is specialised. I for one am not putting my trust into a company like this where I might get non current items or place an order for something that is no longer available then have to wait ages for my money back.

As the previous member said, there is enough good online stores that have done it and continue to do it right. Use them. They are no more expensive.

A list of who is good can be found on Trustpilot.co.uk
search for aviation or click this
Aviation

[Jonzarno]

A list of who is good can be found on Trustpilot.co.uk
search for aviation or click this
Aviation

Hmmm. Clicking that link brings up Proviation in fifth place with four stars.

So that's ok then......

[PaulKerry]

Clicking that link brings up Proviation in fifth place with four stars.

Fifth out of five.
That's the bottom of the list. In the category "hobby", he's right near the bottom, too.
This isn't just a transient blip, either. This reflects his on-going attitude toward customer-service. For a company that's five years old, this is a very poor state of affairs.

My clients leave feedback, too. I don't get anywhere near the level of bad feedback simply because I don't over-promise and under-deliver. My clients are generally pleasantly surprised by the lengths I go to to provide the service for which they are paying and I never ignore contact from a client. EVER !!.
Just for the sake of clarity, I don't supply avionics or aviation-related gear so I'm not a competitor.

Paul..

[Jari_K]

Will never buy from this company again!!

It seems that I have similar experience as many other.

I placed my order for a Dual XGPS150E on the 28th of March. After some days I got a mail saying that the part was out of stock, but would come in some few days.
I waited some week, nothing happened. Mailed them and asked what happened with my part, they excused them self with still not having parts on stock.
After several weeks of waiting I decided to cancel the order, this was an option in the mail answers back from Proviation. Nothing happened though, I didn't get any money back or explanation from them. Then they suddenly told me that the part was sent, but probably got lost in transfer and that they would send a new one to me. I still haven't received anything.
Now after almost 6 months they do not answer my mail anymore, I do not get any answer when trying to call them, no response in the Chat window. NOTHING!!

I probably have to accept that my 100£ went to Proviation as a donation (since I don't get them back or my part).

I'll NEVER EVER buy anything from this company again, that's for sure!!