Proviation customer care problems
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caaz...
Fortunately, no, I haven't been bitten.
Some time back, I did a lot of googling to lean more about ELTs - shortly after the Etihad B787 suffered a ramp fire at LHR presumably caused by its ELT.
One of the sites turned up was the Provation site. The name stuck because "pro" is so sorely mismatched with the apparent quality.
Then, I noticed that name again on Pprune's front page a few days ago.
This thread is one of the things that makes Pprune such a valuable resource.
Nick... What a piece of work! He has learned that the aviation community can be a very trusting bunch and he has been able to get away with pure thievery because of that trust.
Cheers,
Yo Cousin
Some time back, I did a lot of googling to lean more about ELTs - shortly after the Etihad B787 suffered a ramp fire at LHR presumably caused by its ELT.
One of the sites turned up was the Provation site. The name stuck because "pro" is so sorely mismatched with the apparent quality.
Then, I noticed that name again on Pprune's front page a few days ago.
This thread is one of the things that makes Pprune such a valuable resource.
Nick... What a piece of work! He has learned that the aviation community can be a very trusting bunch and he has been able to get away with pure thievery because of that trust.
Cheers,
Yo Cousin
Also learning (or maybe not yet) that word gets around very quickly in this type of specialist community. This thread has had over 61,000 views.
Keep up the good work Paul, wish there was something I could do to help!
Keep up the good work Paul, wish there was something I could do to help!
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Passionate about flying.........
Methinks the word passionate rather gives the game away.......
rottenray
Don't want to get off thread here, or I'll get my legs slapped, but Lithium batteries are causing some people quite a lot of sleepless nights. Probably a question of time before the UPS tragedy happens again......
Yo to you also.....
rottenray
Don't want to get off thread here, or I'll get my legs slapped, but Lithium batteries are causing some people quite a lot of sleepless nights. Probably a question of time before the UPS tragedy happens again......
Yo to you also.....
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Yes, I noticed the same.
At least it's not as bad as the one who simply copied and pasted what they were supposed to be describing instead of writing the review from the perspective of a customer. It went something like this "... concentrate on the ease of use of the web chat and the speed of the delivery..."
Talk about giving the game away???? I bet there was some egg on faces that day.
Just do as I do - if you see a new negative review, post it if someone hasn't beaten you to it and send the victim a PM via TrustPilot directing them to this thread, let them know what they can expect from Bloviation after being ignored for an extended period and ask them to report Nick to TrustPilot if he attempts to bribe or browbeat the person into removing their review.
Paul..
At least it's not as bad as the one who simply copied and pasted what they were supposed to be describing instead of writing the review from the perspective of a customer. It went something like this "... concentrate on the ease of use of the web chat and the speed of the delivery..."
Talk about giving the game away???? I bet there was some egg on faces that day.
Originally Posted by Blues&Twos
wish there was something I could do to help!
Paul..
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Another badly treated customer from Trustpilot - Putting it nicely!
Michelle Collishaw
Worst Customer Service Ever! Disgusting
Worst Customer Service Ever! Disgusting
Total lack of customer service regarding an ongoing issue. Order was placed 27/10/2013, order confirmation received to advise delivery 1-3 days. Email sent to ask ETA for order on 01/11/2013, was advised at this point the ordered item was out of stock, and they would need to source! After waiting until December and still no delivery of order I requested to cancel order as they were unable to fulfil. Requested money back and I am still waiting for a full refund 4 months on. Over 20 emails have been sent only 2 were answered, unable to contact on phone! And live chat is non existent .........we have received a refund fao £50.00 and are still waiting for the full amount to be refunded. This company does not care about its customers at all, worst ever experience of customer service.
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From K Weston
Buyer Beware!
Ordered items shown as in-stock on 22nd Oct, payment was taken at time of order but no goods have been received.
Requested update to my order in Nov and was told that there were supply issues but my order would be delivered as soon as possible. There has been no further updates to my order and I finally requested a refund in Jan. This request has not been acknowledged and there has been no communication from Proviation, still no goods and no refund.
The matter has now been referred to my card company and trading standards.
Ordered items shown as in-stock on 22nd Oct, payment was taken at time of order but no goods have been received.
Requested update to my order in Nov and was told that there were supply issues but my order would be delivered as soon as possible. There has been no further updates to my order and I finally requested a refund in Jan. This request has not been acknowledged and there has been no communication from Proviation, still no goods and no refund.
The matter has now been referred to my card company and trading standards.
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Paul Kerry
Hi Paul
I have been following this thread from the start & would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on making us all aware of the obvious charlatan that is Nick Ross/Proviation.
If it wasn't for your persistence many more unsuspecting folk would become victims of this rogue trader
Keep up the good work
AFN
I have been following this thread from the start & would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on making us all aware of the obvious charlatan that is Nick Ross/Proviation.
If it wasn't for your persistence many more unsuspecting folk would become victims of this rogue trader
Keep up the good work
AFN
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Thanks AFN, I certainly cannot take all of the credit.
There has been a great effort made by some of the other contributors and there has been some really sound advice given by one or two other members.
Of course, unless those reading spread the word and point others to this thread, the sad thing is that many people will find it all too late and become yet another statistic, frustrated at having handed over money for a product advertised as in-stock only to get diddly-squat in the way of product, refund or honest communication from Bloviation... until they post a public complaint, that is.
Paul..
There has been a great effort made by some of the other contributors and there has been some really sound advice given by one or two other members.
Of course, unless those reading spread the word and point others to this thread, the sad thing is that many people will find it all too late and become yet another statistic, frustrated at having handed over money for a product advertised as in-stock only to get diddly-squat in the way of product, refund or honest communication from Bloviation... until they post a public complaint, that is.
Paul..
Paul,
I see that Michelle Collishaw's and K Weston's reviews have predictably disappeared.
I also see that two more five-star reviews have showed up. What is interesting is that most of the names of the five-star reviewers are prefixed by Mr. or Mrs. It certainly looks like they may have been written by someone in a country where English is a little more formal than in the UK these days.
I see that Michelle Collishaw's and K Weston's reviews have predictably disappeared.
I also see that two more five-star reviews have showed up. What is interesting is that most of the names of the five-star reviewers are prefixed by Mr. or Mrs. It certainly looks like they may have been written by someone in a country where English is a little more formal than in the UK these days.
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An idea
Is any one techy enough to know how to create an online petition.
We need to as a group of concerned people let Trustpilot know about this company. As some members have said they have contacted TP individually to complain and got nowhere, as Trustpilot will fall back on their tired ( not a fraudulent slip) & tested reply of "Trustpilot is an open platform bla bla bla_"
we need to put more forceful case together to stop Bloviation hiding every bad review via fake postings of anonymous users.
We just need a simple website that users can sign up to, and post the web address link everywhere, including taking it in turns to add it to Trustpilot pages, flyer forum, pilot forum, and any others we can find.
Keep up the good work Paul. I am not techy in the least but ill help if I can.
We need to as a group of concerned people let Trustpilot know about this company. As some members have said they have contacted TP individually to complain and got nowhere, as Trustpilot will fall back on their tired ( not a fraudulent slip) & tested reply of "Trustpilot is an open platform bla bla bla_"
we need to put more forceful case together to stop Bloviation hiding every bad review via fake postings of anonymous users.
We just need a simple website that users can sign up to, and post the web address link everywhere, including taking it in turns to add it to Trustpilot pages, flyer forum, pilot forum, and any others we can find.
Keep up the good work Paul. I am not techy in the least but ill help if I can.
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Okay - I have a draft.
Please PM me for a link and feel free to share the link with others who have been active in this thread.
Once we've hammered out the objectives and wording, we can make it public.
Paul..
Please PM me for a link and feel free to share the link with others who have been active in this thread.
Once we've hammered out the objectives and wording, we can make it public.
Paul..
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petition
Does Trustpilot have a facebok page? if so, then use it.
Everyone can then "comment, like and share" a petition posted on their Wall.
Then you can also see who is doing what
Everyone can then "comment, like and share" a petition posted on their Wall.
Then you can also see who is doing what
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I don't know about TP but Bloviation has a FarceBuck page.
From what I understand, Bloviation don't allow public comments on their page.
That would suggest that they are afraid of what people are saying about them.
However, TP is a huge organisation / facility covering more than just Nick Ross.
Not every user of TP is as outrageously dishonest and unethical as Nick Ross.
However, their system is most certainly wide open to abuse.
I could, for example, create a TP account, shaft all of my customers (not just a proportion of them, like Nick - Hypothetically, I don't care about being able to point at customers who are genuinely happy with my service in order to give the impression of being a legitimate businessman rather than an out-and-out con-merchant) and when I receive a negative review, I simply flag it (via a friend, sympathetic supplier or proxy-server). I get friends or employees, use a proxy server or employ an agency to write fake reviews and I provide false order numbers. Along comes a disgruntled customer who has sussed what is going on and starts flagging the positive reviews which he understandably suspects to be fake (as I have seen happening with Nick's reviews) - I simply provide the reviewers with order numbers to supply to TP. Their reviews are reinstated. Thus, it is utterly pointless in flagging suspected false reviews. They will simply provide the order numbers given to them by the rogue-trader.
When one of my victims starts contacting other victims and letting them know what to expect, pointing them at a thread in a forum which contains a repost of the majority of the reviews which have been flagged and hidden, I simply ask TP to block his PM privileges. TP have no idea what is going on and my claim that "it is just one or two competitors who are trying to scupper my business" is more than enough for them to give me the benefit of the doubt - especially as I am paying for their service - I am their customer, paying their wages and with a good business, the customer is always right.
This leaves facilities such as TrustPilot wide open to abuse by the likes of Nick Ross and no amount of rational discussion, explanation or petitioning is ever going to resolve this problem. Caveat Emptor - Learn to spot the frauds and conmen - learn to spot the TP review pages which have lots and lots of flagged reviews. Do proper internet searches and try to find a forum like this one where people are able to discuss their experiences without manipulation from the rogue traders.
On the flip-side, we have organisations such as the Trading Standards Authority who are tasked with ensuring that traders behave themselves - of course, they are about as much use as a parachute in a submarine. They make contact, ask nicely, accept any old horse manure and the rogue trader is free to carry on regardless.
The only real weapon we have in the fight against fraudsters is criminal law.
That requires establishing a pattern and demonstrating intent.
How many people so far have had a quiet word in Nick's shell-like ?
How many of those people have basically been told to put their advice somewhere smelly, sideways? (I'd guess all of them, politely or otherwise).
Nick knows what is expected of him as an ethical businessman.
Nick knows why he has earned himself the label - "lying, thieving crook" and the only way he knows to defend against that label is to pretend that he has an on-going defamation case against those who might strive to amalgamate his victims and to abuse facilities such as TrustPilot.
He could choose to be an honest and ethical businessman - he has been given more than enough time to get his act together. He could choose to look after the people who have given him money in good faith. He could choose to advertise for sale only those products which he, personally, can ship within a reasonable period of time. In the two years of history which is documented here in this thread, I am quite sure that we have established prior knowledge and intent.
I really cannot interpret this evidence in any other way. Initially, I was prepared to accept that he was just a small businessman who had simply bitten off a bit more than he could chew which is why I gave him six months before I got on his case. This is not simply the performance of a guy who has just bitten off a bit more than he can chew - I really cannot believe that for a moment - this is the behaviour of a guy who knowingly is obtaining money by deception. This is the behaviour of a criminal and no other word can credibly be used to describe Nick's performance when we take into account the history of his organisation, his use of organisation logos, his abuse of TP, his treatment of customers, his excuses, his persistent claims of stock (when there is none), his bribery, his "trade-association" of which only he is a member - and founder, his persistent ignorance of complaints (until they are made public) and his dismissal of those who have legitimate complaint.
Two years of history - that's what has been documented in this thread.
That should be more than enough to show foreknowledge and intent in a criminal case.
If only one single customer has written off an out-of-pocket expense to Nick, then he has obtained money by deception. I know that there are more than one who have done exactly that. That makes Nick Ross a con-artist by every definition of the word. He deceives other people into parting with money by making them believe something false.
Trade associations, review pages, payment protection plans and advertising authorities are not the course for redress in this case. It is time to bring Nick Ross to justice for fraud and see him try to answer criminal charges.
Of course, this is my opinion and it may not tally with your own. For a whole year, I have been waiting for Nick to get his act together. It seems that he thinks he doesn't have to do so. An emphatic "NO" from those who have fallen foul of his dishonest practices would go a long way to either forcing him to change his ways or shutting him down for good. Personally, I don't think that he wants to change his ways - He's had more than enough time. That leaves the latter option and I've gone up against (and seen the fall of) far bigger than him.
Paul..
From what I understand, Bloviation don't allow public comments on their page.
That would suggest that they are afraid of what people are saying about them.
However, TP is a huge organisation / facility covering more than just Nick Ross.
Not every user of TP is as outrageously dishonest and unethical as Nick Ross.
However, their system is most certainly wide open to abuse.
I could, for example, create a TP account, shaft all of my customers (not just a proportion of them, like Nick - Hypothetically, I don't care about being able to point at customers who are genuinely happy with my service in order to give the impression of being a legitimate businessman rather than an out-and-out con-merchant) and when I receive a negative review, I simply flag it (via a friend, sympathetic supplier or proxy-server). I get friends or employees, use a proxy server or employ an agency to write fake reviews and I provide false order numbers. Along comes a disgruntled customer who has sussed what is going on and starts flagging the positive reviews which he understandably suspects to be fake (as I have seen happening with Nick's reviews) - I simply provide the reviewers with order numbers to supply to TP. Their reviews are reinstated. Thus, it is utterly pointless in flagging suspected false reviews. They will simply provide the order numbers given to them by the rogue-trader.
When one of my victims starts contacting other victims and letting them know what to expect, pointing them at a thread in a forum which contains a repost of the majority of the reviews which have been flagged and hidden, I simply ask TP to block his PM privileges. TP have no idea what is going on and my claim that "it is just one or two competitors who are trying to scupper my business" is more than enough for them to give me the benefit of the doubt - especially as I am paying for their service - I am their customer, paying their wages and with a good business, the customer is always right.
This leaves facilities such as TrustPilot wide open to abuse by the likes of Nick Ross and no amount of rational discussion, explanation or petitioning is ever going to resolve this problem. Caveat Emptor - Learn to spot the frauds and conmen - learn to spot the TP review pages which have lots and lots of flagged reviews. Do proper internet searches and try to find a forum like this one where people are able to discuss their experiences without manipulation from the rogue traders.
On the flip-side, we have organisations such as the Trading Standards Authority who are tasked with ensuring that traders behave themselves - of course, they are about as much use as a parachute in a submarine. They make contact, ask nicely, accept any old horse manure and the rogue trader is free to carry on regardless.
The only real weapon we have in the fight against fraudsters is criminal law.
That requires establishing a pattern and demonstrating intent.
How many people so far have had a quiet word in Nick's shell-like ?
How many of those people have basically been told to put their advice somewhere smelly, sideways? (I'd guess all of them, politely or otherwise).
Nick knows what is expected of him as an ethical businessman.
Nick knows why he has earned himself the label - "lying, thieving crook" and the only way he knows to defend against that label is to pretend that he has an on-going defamation case against those who might strive to amalgamate his victims and to abuse facilities such as TrustPilot.
He could choose to be an honest and ethical businessman - he has been given more than enough time to get his act together. He could choose to look after the people who have given him money in good faith. He could choose to advertise for sale only those products which he, personally, can ship within a reasonable period of time. In the two years of history which is documented here in this thread, I am quite sure that we have established prior knowledge and intent.
I really cannot interpret this evidence in any other way. Initially, I was prepared to accept that he was just a small businessman who had simply bitten off a bit more than he could chew which is why I gave him six months before I got on his case. This is not simply the performance of a guy who has just bitten off a bit more than he can chew - I really cannot believe that for a moment - this is the behaviour of a guy who knowingly is obtaining money by deception. This is the behaviour of a criminal and no other word can credibly be used to describe Nick's performance when we take into account the history of his organisation, his use of organisation logos, his abuse of TP, his treatment of customers, his excuses, his persistent claims of stock (when there is none), his bribery, his "trade-association" of which only he is a member - and founder, his persistent ignorance of complaints (until they are made public) and his dismissal of those who have legitimate complaint.
Two years of history - that's what has been documented in this thread.
That should be more than enough to show foreknowledge and intent in a criminal case.
If only one single customer has written off an out-of-pocket expense to Nick, then he has obtained money by deception. I know that there are more than one who have done exactly that. That makes Nick Ross a con-artist by every definition of the word. He deceives other people into parting with money by making them believe something false.
Trade associations, review pages, payment protection plans and advertising authorities are not the course for redress in this case. It is time to bring Nick Ross to justice for fraud and see him try to answer criminal charges.
Of course, this is my opinion and it may not tally with your own. For a whole year, I have been waiting for Nick to get his act together. It seems that he thinks he doesn't have to do so. An emphatic "NO" from those who have fallen foul of his dishonest practices would go a long way to either forcing him to change his ways or shutting him down for good. Personally, I don't think that he wants to change his ways - He's had more than enough time. That leaves the latter option and I've gone up against (and seen the fall of) far bigger than him.
Paul..
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Proviationshop
My browser tells me that a new E-shop is under construction......anyone else getting that, or am I just persona non grata?.....perhaps the pressure has had some effect.
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Proviation
India 42, I got that one with IE, Firefox returns the 'New E-shop under construction' message.
May just be adjusting his dress before leaving.......something is happening.
May just be adjusting his dress before leaving.......something is happening.
