Winter Flying
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Like IO540 said. Or hit the books and look what they say about carb ice. I also think there's an AIC or something about it.
Winter offers fantastic flying opportunities, but you've got to keep track of the weather and seize the moment. You can't expect bookings three or more weeks in advance to work.
Best flying is just after a cold front has passed through. Unlimited visibility, crystal clear air, excellent aircraft performance, virtually no turbulence. And if the cold front dumped a lot of snow, you get an amazing scenery too.
Technically speaking, like A&C said, don't fly with ice on the airframe. Be careful with all kinds of scrapers as windshields are easily damaged: Ask the owner/operator how they want you to de-ice the plane. Revise your starting technique as winter is really hard on the batteries. Ideally you will want to start the engine immediately but this only works with proper priming and the right throttle/mixture setting. Be gentle on the engine too: warm it up properly, don't make rapid power changes if you can avoid it, shut it down properly. Know how the heater and defrost work - it's not always obvious, and sometimes quite different from what you find in your car.
On larger airports you may find that not all intersections and taxiways get equal priority in getting cleared. Even at your home airport, you might get different taxi routes than normal. If you go to minor airports, particularly grass strips, you might find the snow not cleared at all. Remove wheel spats in advance as they easily clog up, and keep a very careful eye on the brakes during the preflight.
Winter offers fantastic flying opportunities, but you've got to keep track of the weather and seize the moment. You can't expect bookings three or more weeks in advance to work.
Best flying is just after a cold front has passed through. Unlimited visibility, crystal clear air, excellent aircraft performance, virtually no turbulence. And if the cold front dumped a lot of snow, you get an amazing scenery too.
Technically speaking, like A&C said, don't fly with ice on the airframe. Be careful with all kinds of scrapers as windshields are easily damaged: Ask the owner/operator how they want you to de-ice the plane. Revise your starting technique as winter is really hard on the batteries. Ideally you will want to start the engine immediately but this only works with proper priming and the right throttle/mixture setting. Be gentle on the engine too: warm it up properly, don't make rapid power changes if you can avoid it, shut it down properly. Know how the heater and defrost work - it's not always obvious, and sometimes quite different from what you find in your car.
On larger airports you may find that not all intersections and taxiways get equal priority in getting cleared. Even at your home airport, you might get different taxi routes than normal. If you go to minor airports, particularly grass strips, you might find the snow not cleared at all. Remove wheel spats in advance as they easily clog up, and keep a very careful eye on the brakes during the preflight.
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Get to the airfield an hour earlier than normal to make sure you have time to de-ice the plane properly. Don't do a rush job with a credit card, make sure you get all the ice off, and don't neglect the elevator.
Don't fly through a snow shower, it's really not very fun.
The only big issue of carb ice in winter is a taxi over wet grass when the temp is in the right range. Talk to an instructor and look at the carb ice table, found in many locations such as LASORS. In flight it's more common in summer temps, but continue regular checks as usual.
Don't fly through a snow shower, it's really not very fun.
The only big issue of carb ice in winter is a taxi over wet grass when the temp is in the right range. Talk to an instructor and look at the carb ice table, found in many locations such as LASORS. In flight it's more common in summer temps, but continue regular checks as usual.
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Hi Tomboo,
I used to post here regularly and ask for help and advice but stopped, as you see from the second reply, some of these guys are so up their own arse’s you don't really get any useful help. It really pisses me off...........
As a new Pilot you do have a lot to learn now that you've got your licence, Well done BTW.... I know before I even type this I'll be corrected or told that its poor advice but WGAF. Some of the best flying days are clear blue skies in the winter, no thermals its as smooth as silk and really good fun. What you need to watch for is any visible moisture (rain or clouds) if its very cold, So don't fly on cold days when its raining or be tempted to fly through some fine clouds.
Flying is a continual learning process, enjoy it.
SF
I used to post here regularly and ask for help and advice but stopped, as you see from the second reply, some of these guys are so up their own arse’s you don't really get any useful help. It really pisses me off...........
As a new Pilot you do have a lot to learn now that you've got your licence, Well done BTW.... I know before I even type this I'll be corrected or told that its poor advice but WGAF. Some of the best flying days are clear blue skies in the winter, no thermals its as smooth as silk and really good fun. What you need to watch for is any visible moisture (rain or clouds) if its very cold, So don't fly on cold days when its raining or be tempted to fly through some fine clouds.
Flying is a continual learning process, enjoy it.
SF
Last edited by Scottishflyer182; 2nd Dec 2011 at 21:23.
Join Date: May 2008
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speak for yourself, I was trying to give some constructive advice.
One more thing is make sure you take plenty of warm clothes when you fly. You never know when your heater will pack up, or worst case your engine fails and you end up somewhere cold waiting for help. Maybe even pack some sort of emergency supplies like they advise you do in your car, blanket, torch etc.
Also the low sun is very annoying. Think ahead if you're going to end up making an approach close to sunset with the sun right in your eyes. It may not seem normal to bring sunglasses in December, but I use them more than I did in June.
One more thing is make sure you take plenty of warm clothes when you fly. You never know when your heater will pack up, or worst case your engine fails and you end up somewhere cold waiting for help. Maybe even pack some sort of emergency supplies like they advise you do in your car, blanket, torch etc.
Also the low sun is very annoying. Think ahead if you're going to end up making an approach close to sunset with the sun right in your eyes. It may not seem normal to bring sunglasses in December, but I use them more than I did in June.
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I used to post here regularly and ask for help and advice but stopped, as you see from the first reply, some of these guys are so up their own arse’s you don't really get any useful help. It really pisses me off...........
Too many people post one-liners, which can be answered only with an essay. Obviously I have no idea whether the original poster wanted an essay but you don't need a PhD, or indeed much if any knowledge of aviation, to know that a one-liner such as
This will be my first winter as a PPL. Any thoughts or advice? Particularly carb ice and cold related issues !
Some one-liners can be answered in a flash; e.g. if you ask what is the minimum # of hours for a JAA PPL, the answer is a simple 45.
But not this one.
There is actually a lot of experience on this forum but most of the writers have written a lot of stuff, over years, helping people out. Most are not going to bother when the original writer has just thrown in a one-liner question. Whether you like it or not, that's human nature.
If somebody wants a half decent reply on a somewhat wide topic, they need to make a bit of an effort, and show that they have given the questions some careful consideration. Probably easier said than done if posting off an iphone but there lies another common problem.....
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You didn't say where you fly? Give the briefings more time, choose an alternate as if it were your destination, because very likely it will be, and like the others say, never fly with any ice at all. If you do encounter icing conditions, remember that your safe escape could be to climb, not descend.
Take this as an incentive to start on that instrument rating also!
Doc
Take this as an incentive to start on that instrument rating also!
Doc
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I would not say "zero ice" is a must.
What is important is to not have it on the flying surfaces (wings, elevator).
Having some on the hull is OK, within reason, in general. It does increase friction but it won't increase the stall speed (of either the wing or the elevator) which is what normally gets people who have not de-iced their plane properly.
What is important is to not have it on the flying surfaces (wings, elevator).
Having some on the hull is OK, within reason, in general. It does increase friction but it won't increase the stall speed (of either the wing or the elevator) which is what normally gets people who have not de-iced their plane properly.
who knows
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Ice is obviously the hot topic.
The fact is it's a complete unknown. On a PA28, you could probably get away with 1mm, maybe 2mm or even more but where is the point where it is too much and you will notice the affect, possibly leading to a spin and fatal accident.
That's why it's better in this case to be over cautious and make sure there is absolutely no ice anywhere on the airframe.
The fact is it's a complete unknown. On a PA28, you could probably get away with 1mm, maybe 2mm or even more but where is the point where it is too much and you will notice the affect, possibly leading to a spin and fatal accident.
That's why it's better in this case to be over cautious and make sure there is absolutely no ice anywhere on the airframe.
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When flying in below freezing temps, consider carefully the need to follow the flight manual recommendations for possibly adding alcohol to deice the fuel. Avgas with ice crystals has put me on the ground twice (the second time, alcohol had been prohibited, I had that reversed!).
Winter is a magnificent time to fly, as cold as -15C just gets better. -40C is getting too cold...
Winter is a magnificent time to fly, as cold as -15C just gets better. -40C is getting too cold...
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RTN11
I read all sorts of rubbish on these forums about Nif-Naf & trivia invalidating the C of A because of some sort of leagal rubbish.
Ice invalidates the flight manual because of the laws of physics.
Only one of the rule infractions carrys the death penalty.
Ice invalidates the flight manual because of the laws of physics.
Only one of the rule infractions carrys the death penalty.
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The fact is it's a complete unknown. On a PA28, you could probably get away
It's quite well known.
Airframe ice and winter flying are only somewhat related. My worst experience with ice had us falling 6000 feet, in control, at maximum power, and below best rate climb speed. It was August, over the south of France. We fell to warmer air, and continued on, much the wiser.
If you are flying VFR, and encounter ice, and turn around to exit at the first sign, you will be safe. Other than that, this is a whole different discussion, and not really centered on winter flying.
Anyone who intentionally continues flight in icing conditions in a non equipped aircraft is a fool.
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That was my point.
I've seen guys go flying without clearing the hoar frost and get away with it.
The chances are, you could possibly get away with a small amount of ice on an aircraft not cleared for it.
However, you are entering completely unknown terriotory by doing so, and so the safest bet by far is to make sure you clear all the ice from the whole airframe before you fly, and do not enter icing conditions while enroute unless you have the kit to deal with it.
Plus, you're adding to the chance that something will go wrong, and if it does you're in serious trouble. Even if the accident is not fatal, how is the aircraft owner/insurance company going to view you knowingly going flying with hoar frost still on the wings. It simply isn't worth the risk.
I've seen guys go flying without clearing the hoar frost and get away with it.
The chances are, you could possibly get away with a small amount of ice on an aircraft not cleared for it.
However, you are entering completely unknown terriotory by doing so, and so the safest bet by far is to make sure you clear all the ice from the whole airframe before you fly, and do not enter icing conditions while enroute unless you have the kit to deal with it.
Plus, you're adding to the chance that something will go wrong, and if it does you're in serious trouble. Even if the accident is not fatal, how is the aircraft owner/insurance company going to view you knowingly going flying with hoar frost still on the wings. It simply isn't worth the risk.