SEP Revalidation & Hour Building

[Whiskey Bravo]

So, I have been befuddled by LASORS for most of the day, but despite much reading from multiple sources I am still not completely clear on something.

I know that to revailidate an SEP rating by experience requires:

12 hours of flight time in an SEP or TMG aircraft, to include 6 hours PIC and 12 take offs/landings in the 12 months preceding the revalidation.

What I am still not clear on is what actually counts as an SEP aircraft! I am looing at doing some flying in a Sting TL-2000 which is on the G register with a permit. It has a MAUW on G-INFO as 560kg, so it definitely isn't a micro-light (which I know hours on can't be used), so by the fact that it is not a microlight, do the hours count towards SEP revalidation? And, since I am planning to do the CPL in future, do the hours count towards those required for CPL issue?

Thanks anyone for your help!

[Rod1]

The Sting TL-2000 is tested to CS-VLA by the LAA and it is an SEP or Group A if you are old like me. The hours will count.

Rod1

[Whiskey Bravo]

Thanks Rod - that is pretty much the conclusion I had come to, but good to have some other input - much appreciated.

[AlphaMale]

But am I right in thinking after April 2012 when EASA take over, the hours will not count?

This is becoming a issue I have with buying my own aircraft;

I can afford to buy & maintain a 2 seater PtF AC with say a 582 rotax engine.

And with the hours counting toward CPL/FI I'm happy with that, but I can't afford to have my own aircraft that I'll use every weekend (weather permitting) and also pay £150p/h to fly the local spam can to build hours.

Buying and running a CoA aircraft isn't cheap

[A and C]

It is possible to buy a C or A aircraft use it and then sell it to keep the costs down, a mate of mine did this when building hours for the ATPL but he was a licenced engineer and could ward off most of the pitfalls of aircraft ownership.

The other option is the hours building packages that are avalable but this is also fraught with problems and programs that are used to get you to fly the hours that company's cant sell to anyone else.

The very worst of these programs goes by the very grand title of "structured hours building" in this the company offer you a not very good rate on the aircraft and one of their instructors telling you were to fly to, but this is only good for off peak flying and has a lot of other restrictions that are likely to get your booking bumped if they can sell the slot to someone else. They seem to sell this package to the young and unwise on the grounds that this "structure" has some added value but as you never venture more than an hour or two from base I can't see that in terms of flying experience and of course an hour in the log book is the same be it "structured" or not!

There are some people who will lease you private aircraft to subsidize there own flying, this is OK as long as the aircraft has not been owner maintained. You need to assure yourself that the aircraft is maintained solely by a Subpart F company and not the owner. Also most owners don't like to rent out nice aircraft so you would probably be renting a dog that has over the last few years had as little money spent on it as possible.

Some clubs do offer hours building packages, SFC at stapleford are one who will cut you a good deal but it is a bit restrictive but a lot less so than the so called structured hour building program that is offered by another provider.

The Britsh army always stress in officer training that time spent on reconacence is seldom wasted, I would advise you to take the armys advice and spend a few hours on the Internet searching the options for hour building looking not only at the providers websites but also at blogs from those who have traveled this path before.

[Whiskey Bravo]

AlphaMale, where did you get your information that the hours won't count. I am in agreement from everything that I read that you are correct, but just wondering if your source is different or more substansive than mine. A ridiculous situation indeed - quite how the hours can go from counting to not counting defies logic.

[Genghis the Engineer]

12 hours of flight time in an SEP or TMG aircraft, to include 6 hours PIC and 12 take offs/landings in the 12 months preceding the revalidation.

Also to include one hour with an instructor, and don't forget to make sure that you have the experience stamp/signature in your licence before the last date it is valid.

If you are in Hampshire and need a friendly instructor to fly with you in an interesting SEP, you could do worse than ask Ppruner Irv (Irv Lee at Popham in real life, he doesn't try to hide his identity!). If he's unavailable, drop me a PM, I might be able to help out.

G

[dobbin1]

Remember that the one hour flight with an instructor is not always required. It can be replaced by anyother aeroplane proficiency check or skill test for an instrument, class or type rating (as defined by JAR-FCL) with a JAA qualified Examiner, or by a flight test for the issue/revalidation or renewal of a UK IMC rating.

[AlphaMale]

A and C - Thanks for the advice, as you've pretty much written I am not really interested in flying a club aircraft to different airfields via various airspace just to gain my hours.

I see the hour building as an experience to be enjoyed, and I can't imagine there is much that beats flying your own plane. Learning about the maintenance and taking the responsibility for it. Going on day trips, weekends away and maybe taking part in a few competitions i.e. Precision / Rally Flying and meeting other LAA members at weekend meets.

Whiskey Bravo - I read that the permit to fly hours wouldn't count quite some time back. I think it may have been on a GA forum, the thread soon filled with many GA flyers who owned some high performance aircraft complaining.

They couldn't understand why flying a Censna 152 on a CoA was worth more to EASA than flying a Vans RV7. And the thought flying 12hrs in a CoA aircraft every year just to keep current, despite flying 50hrs in the same year in their own PtF aircraft was ridiculous.

(Unfortunately I can't find the thread or remember the forum)

Having done a search on this topic I'm having very little feedback, so I'm hoping I read it in the early days of when we heard that EASA were taking over and the idea got scrapped

If this is the case, then I see many a happy flying hour being flown through the summer in a PtF aircraft. Building both hours and experience.

Thanks guys.

[abgd]

And the thought flying 12hrs in a CoA aircraft every year just to keep current, despite flying 50hrs in the same year in their own PtF aircraft was ridiculous.

It does seem alarming...

It could be cheaper to simply do the skills test, assuming that's an option.