Big Crash at Reno
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Flying stab
If you are spending millions modifying aircraft for max speed why would you want a trim tab deflecting in to the wind causing unnecessary drag? Do any of these war birds have a trimable stab like jet transport? Wouldn't redesigning the horizontal stab to get rid of the trim tab be more aerodynamic and therefore faster (and probably safer)?
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driver equipment to car design to track safety features
There are references to racing cars being built to have "robust driver compartments". Some planes do too - most purpose built Ag aircraft.
I agree that structure which can dissipate a 500 MPH crash, and keep the occupant safe, is an engineering stretch, is an attempt even made? Can the canopy take a bird strike? (that is the main reason for speed limits below 10,000 feet). Military aircraft have hardened canopies, and ejection seats. But I'm sure that the air racers don't want to carry the weight. And those features won't keep a disabled aircraft out of the crowd anyway.
It's just sad that spectators suffered.....
It's just sad that spectators suffered.....
But then I doubt many of them would have paid for a ticket to see airliners safely "race" around the track at 250 kts and 1500' AGL while limited to 30 degrees bank angle either. People flock to Reno every September to see the spectacle of air racing. This year the Friday attendees unfortunately got more than they bargained for. I was considering making the 500 mile drive up for Sunday. I hope I have the option next year.
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In auto racing, catch fences and barriers are ever more robust and spectators placed further from the action in an attempt to isolate them from the crash energy.
I was not really referring to aircraft safety and driver protection as other than improved ejection systems in aircraft driver or pilot safety is different re aircraft and race cars.
My real point here is that as a result of this crash I am sure the course and procedures will be looked at and no doubt the spectators will be pushed ever further back from the action.
People go to any racing to see the action (and in cars the crashes) The closer you are the more exciting.
I no longer go to watch car racing partly as I was never a good spectator preferring to partake.
Back in my car racing days you could stand within feet of the track with only an armco Barrier seperating you.
The last race I spectated at about 5 years ago the spectators were so far back from the action there was no thrill factor only distant colours flashing by.
Sadly I think the same will happen with air racing
Pace
Hi Pace,
Unfortunately moving the barriers back further may indeed be the "solution" arrived at. But that won't really provide the same kind of protection from airplanes that it does from cars.
I used to go to allot of car races too. I only got to drive a few times, but worked as pit crew and track safety crew in addition to being an ordinary race fan. I don't find the experience as fun as I once did either.
No ejection seats allowed for civilian aircraft has probably kept a few pilots from jettisoning airplanes over crowded areas even when they were in serious trouble and would have if they could have. There was a guy who bailed out of his burning race plane at Phoenix back about 20 years ago. He parachuted to safety, but broke his back on the vertical stab on the way out. The plane crunched in the desert.
Unfortunately moving the barriers back further may indeed be the "solution" arrived at. But that won't really provide the same kind of protection from airplanes that it does from cars.
I used to go to allot of car races too. I only got to drive a few times, but worked as pit crew and track safety crew in addition to being an ordinary race fan. I don't find the experience as fun as I once did either.
No ejection seats allowed for civilian aircraft has probably kept a few pilots from jettisoning airplanes over crowded areas even when they were in serious trouble and would have if they could have. There was a guy who bailed out of his burning race plane at Phoenix back about 20 years ago. He parachuted to safety, but broke his back on the vertical stab on the way out. The plane crunched in the desert.
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Broken seat?
First I've heard of this theory...
Photo Suggests Pilot In Deadly Reno Air Crash Had Broken Seat, Aviation Mechanic Says | Fox News
Photo Suggests Pilot In Deadly Reno Air Crash Had Broken Seat, Aviation Mechanic Says | Fox News
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I think that's a bogus assumption.
1. There is (was) a bulkhead behind the pilot that I feel would preclude him from sliding or falling backward.
2. If the shoulder harness system in the Galloping Ghost was an inertia reel type, then the shoulder straps would allow the pilot to slump forward after experiencing GLOC. If slumped forward, he would not be able to be seen by viewing the canopy from the side. In another photo showing the aircraft inverted, you can barely make out the pilot's helmet against the forward part of the canopy due to gravity.
3. That last picture, which supposedly shows the airplane in the last seconds of the dive into the ramp area might also be bogus. Note the reflection on the spinner showing the horizon (and airplanes on the ramp when viewed elsewhere on the net) aligned with the longitudinal axis. The reflected horizon in a dive should be perpendicular to that direction of flight if the aircraft was pointed to the ground.
1. There is (was) a bulkhead behind the pilot that I feel would preclude him from sliding or falling backward.
2. If the shoulder harness system in the Galloping Ghost was an inertia reel type, then the shoulder straps would allow the pilot to slump forward after experiencing GLOC. If slumped forward, he would not be able to be seen by viewing the canopy from the side. In another photo showing the aircraft inverted, you can barely make out the pilot's helmet against the forward part of the canopy due to gravity.
3. That last picture, which supposedly shows the airplane in the last seconds of the dive into the ramp area might also be bogus. Note the reflection on the spinner showing the horizon (and airplanes on the ramp when viewed elsewhere on the net) aligned with the longitudinal axis. The reflected horizon in a dive should be perpendicular to that direction of flight if the aircraft was pointed to the ground.
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First I've heard of this theory...
Photo Suggests Pilot In Deadly Reno Air Crash Had Broken Seat, Aviation Mechanic Says | Fox News
Photo Suggests Pilot In Deadly Reno Air Crash Had Broken Seat, Aviation Mechanic Says | Fox News
That "theory" about the seat is the biggest load of GARBAGE that I have ever heard or seen from a "reputable" news source.
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Course Layout
Here's a great diagaram of the course layout...source:
Speed: 500 MPH. Altitude: 50 Feet. Feeling: Amazing. | Autopia | Wired.com
Speed: 500 MPH. Altitude: 50 Feet. Feeling: Amazing. | Autopia | Wired.com
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The mechanic is confused. He may have seen "Voodoo" in its similar dustup you tube vid. In it, Hannah slides the cockpit back on roll out, it looks very much like the pilot is rolling forward, he isn't.
Its at the end of the vid.
hambleoldboy, #81
indexed at around 9:00.
Truth be told, the canopy closing (at the beginning of the vid), shows the same thing, but the pilot appears to be "moving back" in the cockpit. take your pick!
Its at the end of the vid.
hambleoldboy, #81
indexed at around 9:00.
Truth be told, the canopy closing (at the beginning of the vid), shows the same thing, but the pilot appears to be "moving back" in the cockpit. take your pick!
Last edited by Lyman; 21st Sep 2011 at 02:01.
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Pilot posture
I'm not sure if this link will work properly, but if it does, it leads to a very telling photo.
If this is the pilot's posture during a race, it would not be very good for high G loading. He appears to be using a typical airline/corporate shoulder harness that joins in a V and then connects to a inertia reel. (You have to download the image and zoom in to see this. A little tweaking on the contrast and mid tones helps as well).
I realize he probably has to sit like this to see the pylons and other aircraft, but with his head not against any support and turned to the left and down, even if the g loading was only 4 or 5 (not 20 as the media is claiming) he is in a very poor posture to deal with it.
If this is the pilot's posture during a race, it would not be very good for high G loading. He appears to be using a typical airline/corporate shoulder harness that joins in a V and then connects to a inertia reel. (You have to download the image and zoom in to see this. A little tweaking on the contrast and mid tones helps as well).
I realize he probably has to sit like this to see the pylons and other aircraft, but with his head not against any support and turned to the left and down, even if the g loading was only 4 or 5 (not 20 as the media is claiming) he is in a very poor posture to deal with it.
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That last photo in that link was pretty chilling - as was the mans account of events.
Slightly off toppic - I've seen a few go down in my time at airshows - but they were always well away from the crowd. Only one was fatal - the thing that got me was the way time seemed to slow down, watching an aircraft fall out of the sky and wondering why the poor chap didnt eject - it seemed to me like he had all the time in the world - only when I saw it again on the news that night did I realise how quickly it all happend. (Impala of the Silver Falcons aerobatic team, the wing detached due to fatigue circa 1993 at Lanseria in Johannesburg)
Slightly off toppic - I've seen a few go down in my time at airshows - but they were always well away from the crowd. Only one was fatal - the thing that got me was the way time seemed to slow down, watching an aircraft fall out of the sky and wondering why the poor chap didnt eject - it seemed to me like he had all the time in the world - only when I saw it again on the news that night did I realise how quickly it all happend. (Impala of the Silver Falcons aerobatic team, the wing detached due to fatigue circa 1993 at Lanseria in Johannesburg)
temporal distortion
An extraordinary eyewitness account, thanks to the man that wrote it and to oakape for posting it here.
BTW, an article on temporal distortion here:
http://library.ndmctsgh.edu.tw/milme...r/fsmjun99.pdf
BTW, an article on temporal distortion here:
http://library.ndmctsgh.edu.tw/milme...r/fsmjun99.pdf
Last edited by hum; 21st Sep 2011 at 14:45. Reason: more haste less speed
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All 11 killed in Reno air race crash identified
The National Transportation Safety Board took over the investigation into the cause of the crash, and said a preliminary report would be released Friday. A final report with the cause and recommendations will likely take months to complete.
