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Some advice and recommendations for a new member?

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Some advice and recommendations for a new member?

Old 21st Jul 2011, 12:11
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Some advice and recommendations for a new member?

Hi everyone, i've been lurking the forums for a while and decided to join since the opportunity to begin seriously thinking about my ppl has finally arisen. I will spare you the back story for now!

I'll have some funds due to a work related bonus in early 2012 and i am definitely going to pursue my dream. At the moment i could maybe only afford 1 lesson per month. However, i'd like some advice.

Basically, would it be best to wait until i have the funds to go for the ppl before i start flight training and there is better weather or should i start now at the rate of 1 per month? My concerns are learning through the winter, where i imagine there will be plenty of cancellations due to weather, and the low rate of learning. Would it be financially counter productive? I guess my question is along the lines of, how bad is it really, flying in Scotland through the winter months? I know basic VFR minima but i find it very hard to visualise this in terms of "a bit overcast", "no blue sky", "light rain" or "thick cloud". Obviously i am well used to the weather behaviour of my local area, but i'm not sure how that translates into VFR flying opportunities.

I have thought of studying for ground exams through the winter, until i can go for regular lessons and i know a lot of people do this (usually before doing an intensive course) which may be more worthwhile than having such spread out lessons where i would be better off paying debt.

I have searched around for answers on this quite substantially, but it seems to be more of an experience/situation type scenario.

Any thoughts, comments and advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 13:55
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Hi there.

Firstly welcome to the forum and well done for deciding to fulfil your ambition of gaining a PPL. I can tell you now it's a very rewarding experience indeed, but one that comes with many challenges, and lots of emotional ups and downs.

Obviously whatever you decide to do will be wholly down to your decision at the end of the day, and we can only give our opinion which for most will be based on our own personal experiences.

The first thing you will need to bare in mind with doing 1 lesson per month is of course the overall time over which you will train. Based on 45 hours minimum you would of course need 45 months which is nearly 4 years. However, do bare in mind that those who do training spread out over such a time frame usually require much more than 45 hours as there will be a continual process of refreshing yourself on what you previously learned in the last lesson, and the basic controls and fundamentals of flying will take much longer to master. With this in mind you should consider that it is likley to take you 60 hours+ of training to achieve your PPL, and maybe even more. This now puts you into the 5 years camp, and I suspect that during this period you are likley to experience low periods and there is always a risk that the very slow progression may eventually cause you to give up on the training and cut your losses, leaving you out of pocket and with no PPL license to boot.
With this first point in mind I would personally say that where possible you need to try and get blocks of training done to ensure your progression is steady and visible. Otherwise your morale will be a constant battle.

The next consideration with learning to fly in this country is that the weather will constantly mean cancelled lessons, and even more so as you are in not so sunny Scotland. This will further extend the training period, so in summary I would say that basing your training on 1 lesson per month would not be a sensible approach.
You could perhaps ensure that you have at least 1 lesson per month but should aim to get up to 3 or 4 if you can, and should time and money allow it even more. Block training, in my experience is much more advantageous as it means you do not have to waste time each lesson refreshing yourself on the basics.

Lets say you have £3000 saved up already, I would try and spend this on lessons as quickly as possible as this will mean you will get a good chunk of the training done as this will give you a good grounding of basic controls and flight knowledge right off the bat. You can then resort to 1, 2 or 3 lessons per month there after to finish the training and you will also have ample time to do the theory at this stage to. You will also significantly reduce the overall time that your training takes so all in all I believe this to be a much safer approach.

Anyhow, this is of course my opinion but I hope it helps. Others might suggest otherwise however.

Good luck with your flying, fly safe and enjoy the ride. I can assure you it's a very interesting and challenging one.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 14:39
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Hi,
I agree with ct8282. You will be spending years learning to fly at the rate of one lesson a month. It would probably be the same lesson every month!
Flying every week will save you at least a third. That would pay for a loan.

Your ground exams are valid for only two years.

One thing I don't agree with him about is the Scottish weather. I had hardly any weather cancellations and qualified in seven months flying one hour every Sunday and a very occasional evening. That was however in the east of Scotland back in the days when we thought the world was still cooling down.

Best of luck and don't pay up front.
D.O.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 14:47
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Good advice about the not paying up front. However, on the weather front, just about to have my 4th flight in a row cancelled due to the weather this evening, and I'm in Sussex.

Perhaps I need to move to Scotland if your weather is better up there!

There was a thread recently from a guy who was doing his PPL training and was talking about how many lessons he has had cancelled since starting due to the weather. He was several months in but only had a few hours under his belt due to the weather. Stupid damn country!
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 14:53
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Wow! Thanks you both for such excellent replies! I should have been clearer in my original post about 1 lesson per month though. That would be until early 2012 when i would have the money to do much more than one lesson per month. In other words, in anticipation of receiving a large lump sum, should i start now with around 1 lesson per month (for about 7 months) and then complete it in early 2012? Or should i hold off until then when i can do the whole thing much quicker?

From your replies i can see the major disadvantage being that although i might get a small head start with some extra lessons beforehand, i will probably just end having to refresh a lot due to the low frequency of training, which isn't very efficient in the long term.

With regards to trying to get a handle on what VFR conditions "look like", could i still fly on the average Scottish overcast day? No blue sky, just cloud. Does rain always mean no flying? As i say, there is loads of information on what VFR is/are, but it's difficult without some experience to know what that means in real terms.

Again, i really appreciate your replies and even this first step of posting on this forum feels like i have got the ball rolling, which is quite exciting!
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 14:56
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Haha, such is the price to bear for living in such a fantastic country with all those other perks! If anyone knows what they may be, could you let me know!

When lessons are being cancelled due to weather, is that something which is typically given good notice of or is it more likely to turn up for your lesson half an hour early only to find as you're about to go to the a/c that the lesson is off?
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 15:38
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Originally Posted by Amblikai
Wow! Thanks you both for such excellent replies! I should have been clearer in my original post about 1 lesson per month though. That would be until early 2012 when i would have the money to do much more than one lesson per month. In other words, in anticipation of receiving a large lump sum, should i start now with around 1 lesson per month (for about 7 months) and then complete it in early 2012? Or should i hold off until then when i can do the whole thing much quicker?

From your replies i can see the major disadvantage being that although i might get a small head start with some extra lessons beforehand, i will probably just end having to refresh a lot due to the low frequency of training, which isn't very efficient in the long term.

With regards to trying to get a handle on what VFR conditions "look like", could i still fly on the average Scottish overcast day? No blue sky, just cloud. Does rain always mean no flying? As i say, there is loads of information on what VFR is/are, but it's difficult without some experience to know what that means in real terms.

Again, i really appreciate your replies and even this first step of posting on this forum feels like i have got the ball rolling, which is quite exciting!
No problem at all.

My personal opinion based on the extra info above, I would wait until next year when you have your cash and then do as much block training as you can. In the meantime work your way through the theory exams and have these done before you start flying. This will reduce your work load and stress levels. If you're really committed you can get the theory done very quickly, I got all 7 exams passed with average of approx 95% in 4 weeks, but this was hard graft and lots and lots of hours studying nearly every day. You can however gradually work your way through it all, say do one exam per month and this will reduce the stress and aggro of the theory work.

VMC minima for a PPL pilot, when flying under 3000ft and under 140kts IAS is 3km flight visibility (this is visibility directly ahead of you), clear of cloud and surface in sight.

Above 3000ft the minima is 5km flight visibility, clear of cloud vertically by 1000ft and clear of cloud horizontally by 1500m, just to confuse you.

This is for class F and G airspace which the majority of your flying would likely be.

To answer your question then, if it is overcast and cloudy, and maybe some rain or drizzle, but you can maintain these minima you can still fly. Whether or not you'd want to is another matter though.

If you do decide to follow this advice then maybe you could start working your way through the Air Law stuff as this will answer a lot of these queries for you. For some advice on the theory here's the thread that I wrote about my experience with the tests.....

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...xperience.html
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 15:52
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Rain is not necessarily a reason for not flying; but it usually comes with poor visibility, which is.

As already said: flying one hour per month will get you nowhere (been there, tried that).

Be aware that there are more reasons to keep you grounded than the actual weather: after a long period of rain, grass runways tend to be soaked and thus unusable for a week at least. And then finally when the runway is again in use, and the skies are reasonably clear, everybody wants to go up, so no chance to book a club or school plane.
Not to mention a/c broke, a/c planned maintenance, instructor illness or other priorities and what not.
Talk to a few students at your chosen place for learning, and get an idea of how bad these limitations are.

Oh yes, IF you do decide to go for it: clean aircraft. Either wash them outside before your flight, or hoover the inside or whatever, but do show you care for the plane. Your instructor will be delighted to find you at the job - if he's any worth as a pilot.

One more afterthought: before anything else, go for the required medical. 't Would be too bad to spend a good deal of money, time, and effort, only to find there's some teeny medical point that keeps you from being a pilot anyway.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 15:53
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After your first few hours of upper air work a lot of time will be spent in the "circuit." With a suitably qualified instructor this would require a cloud base of just over 1000 feet and reasonable visibility. Light rain is not a problem. That description translates into pretty poor weather.
Fog, gales, heavy rain and cloud down to the hilltops will stop you flying

Navigation training requires better weather than that, however the lesson can often be modified to suit the weather on the day. This may depend on the experience, qualifications and determination of your instructor.

Wind is the other major weather factor. Light aircraft can fly in fairly strong wind (if your stomach can) but if the wind is strong, and across the runway the lesson may be cancelled. Now you are thinking "where can I learn that has a choice of runways?"

Back to the subject of cancellations. This can be caused by mechanical issues. Is there maintenence on the airfield? Are spare aircraft available?
D.O.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 16:11
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For my tuppence worth I would suggest getting the theory done over the winter months and then taking time out to get your licence when the lump sum becomes available. Depending on when and where this could be done in 4 weeks, or so, and if you chose to go abroad it could be done during the winter months. With a lump sum coming I would opt for this approach.

Regarding weather; generally speaking it is surprising how bad the weather can appear and still be flyable. There are plenty exercises that only require the weather to behave in the local training area for the time of your lesson. The key is having these slots booked, or being available at short notice. Once you get to the nav exercises and post skills test then the weather further afield has more influence on your training/flying.

Flying with a total overcast is not an issue, nor is flying when there are rain showers which can be flown around. A lot depends on where you fly, Prestwick to Fife with a 3000ft ceiling should be easy enough, Prestwick to Inverness with the same ceiling poses a few more challenges. Localised showers are relatively easy to see and avoid although more care is required in hilly terrain where the escape routes are not as numerous. Of course you also have to consider the airspace around your route. To fly in the Lake District clearly requires a higher ceiling than flying in East Anglia .

For me the big challenge is assessing if what is flyable weather now is going to remain so, is the ceiling going to lower, are the localised showers going to become more widespread?

What I say above is not intended to give the impression that weather should be taken lightly, it is intended to shed some light on your question in explaining clear blue skies as far as the eye can see are not essential for VFR flight.

Best of luck with it.

BB
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 16:16
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I'm just at the end of my PPL training (cancelled three skills tests already this week due to weather, aaaaaaaaaaaarghh....) and would absolutely recommend saving up and just doing it full on. It took me three months to do my required hours, I wouldn't have liked the thought of doing it a couple of hours a month, what you need is continuity.

Get the exams out of the way ASAP as you always think that you have plenty of time to do them; the reality is that your skills test will creep up pretty quick and you find yourself with two or three exams outstanding which you then have to cram in. Also do your medical first, it's pointless starting until you have that. The first exam to do is Air Law, doesn't really matter what order you do the rest in.

I know you probably are itching to get started but I can't stress enough how much better off you will be if you just save up the loot first and put it to one side. Good luck!

Incidentally as far as weather goes I've had more weather cancellations this month than any other, it doesn't follow that winter will be a bad time to start. I believe a guy did his PPL in two weeks last November at a club in Wales.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 16:43
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Also think about when you will get your licence. Doing your training over the winter means getting your licence in the spring with good weather to allow you to use it solo.

If you do your training in the Summer and get your licence in the Autumn then there will likely be big gaps between your flights during the winter which probably means refresher training.

As someone has said much of your initial training is done in the circuit or with an instructor and therefore can often be fitted in between the bad weather in the winter.

Another option is to go to the US and do a 3 week course in Florida or California. You would need to do some UK flying with an instructor when you get back but it can be very cost effective.

I would think that 1 flight per month isn't likely to be very helpful at all.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 17:04
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Hello, Ambi!

Lots of good advice posted here for you, get the medical done first! then the written work. But living in Glasgow, my next point may or may not be of use to you....and that is the Atlantic weather flow manages to keep the west side of Scotland rather damp, while the east side has a few fairly reliable weeks in September. Could you find - and visit - a flight school which could give you five days during the week of training in September, it would be well worth sleeping in your car - or a local B&B to take advantage of that weather pattern. Westerly winds, wet west, easterly winds dump on the east coast.

But don't pay up front untill you have visited the school and had your first trial lesson! even then be very traditionally careful about parting with substantial sums, as many a school has gone down the pan, especially in these parlous times, and there is no recourse!

Which raises in my mind another question, if you paid by credit card, THEN could you get your money back????anybody here know the answer to that?
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 17:31
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May I suggest that, while you are making up your mind, you build some experience of judging the weather. Keep checking the METAR/TAF for places like Glasgow and Prestwick airports and then look out of the window and make a note of what it looks like. If you can normally see more than 10Km from your home/office, see if you can pick an easily identifiable structure about 8 to 10 Km away. If you can't see it clearly, you could not go flying.

Bear in mind that you will need the cloud base above 2000', a visibility of 10Km or more and lightish winds to make most use of your earlier lessons. See how many days you get that in your area over the next few weeks.
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 09:13
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Wow! Thanks again! You guys are great!

Lots of great advice there and many points i hadn't even considered! Good idea to do the medical first. I think i'll start looking into that soon.

ct8282 It was really interesting to read your experiences on the exams. I note that you're an electronic engineer too! I'm looking into getting the Jeremy Pratt books. As soon as i receive them i'll begin reading through them systematically.

Regarding the weather, all your advice was exactly what i was looking for. Trying to get a 'feel' for the weather and how it affects flying i'm sure will come with experience.
pulse1 I drive past Glasgow Airport every day on my way to work, how would i go about checking the weather for it? I've googled METAR and TAF and they seem quite complicated (i'm sure it'll all become clear when i start studying meteorology), where is the best place to look at this/understand it? And great idea too!

From all the advice given, i'll definitely be saving up nd going for it all in one. Would people recommend an intensive course? Going abroad? I had originally my heart set on learning at Prestwick (i did some trial hours there years ago and they were great!) and i'd like to aim for that but if abroad is significantly cheaper or if weather is likely to seriously hamper me i'm obviously open to options.

Thanks again for all your input and advice. It's very encouraging!
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 09:45
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Try TheHangar.co.uk for metar code and breakdown for individual airfields.
D.O.
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 09:45
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Weather:

Head over to the met office website - Met Office: Weather then "Services for Aviation". Get yourself an account (free), login and you can check TAF/METAR info there. Have a look at form 215 which will give you an overview of expected weather too. You may also want to look at form 214 which gives winds aloft (although this only becomes important when you start doing nav).

Learning theory:

Along with good reading material, I suggest something like http://www.pplquiz.co.uk/

You may know all the theory but it's a good idea to get a feel for the way questions are asked in the exams. PPL confuser is another IIRC.

Good luck.
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 09:46
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Amblikai,

You could try this for plain language METAR:

ADDS - METARs form results

There are several long range views around Glasgow airport. Just work out how far away some of the distinctive hills are and then you will know what the visibility is and compare it to the current METAR which you can check before you leave for work.
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 15:41
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Also, if you have an iPhone download the 'AeroWeather' app. It's awesome and you can select any airfield you like and read the latest METARs and TAFs for that airfield.

There's also a 'decoded' button which translates the reports into normal easy to read English. This would be a great tool for keeping an eye on your local METARs and learning the meaning of them at the same time.
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 18:02
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In other words, in anticipation of receiving a large lump sum, should i start now with around 1 lesson per month (for about 7 months)
I would advise not. You'll spend almost all of each lesson getting back to where you were before, so for the cost of seven lessons you'll make about two lessons' progress.
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