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Tiger Moth Crash

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Tiger Moth Crash

Old 15th May 2011, 19:51
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Tiger Moth Crash

Sad news.

Two badly hurt in biplane crash - Yahoo! News
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Old 15th May 2011, 20:16
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Bad day. There's a photograph and some more details here: Two men seriously injured after Tiger Moth crash in rural Dorset field - Telegraph
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Old 15th May 2011, 20:42
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Lucky to be alive. Hope they make a full recovery.. Sad loss of a historical machine.. Daily mail's reporting sensationalist and inaccurate as usual.

Pilot and passenger pulled alive from wreckage of WWII fighter after crash following stunt | Mail Online
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Old 15th May 2011, 21:28
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Daily Mail inaccurate?

Surely not.

Hope they both make a full and speedy recovery
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Old 16th May 2011, 00:15
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Prayers and wishes for a speedy and complete recovery of the crew. The stupid, Toytown report is of no relative significance.
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Old 16th May 2011, 08:16
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What a shame, I hope both of them are OK.
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Old 16th May 2011, 08:33
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I sincerely hope for a speedy and full recovery for these guys, as I'm sure we all do.

I'm pretty sure I know why the engine cut out on the way down and there are only really three possible causes of the accident. I won't discuss them here though until the news reports have died down as we all know the hacks read this site.
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Old 16th May 2011, 09:50
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A very sad day for the pilot and passenger and those close to them. A sad day for aviation. Disappointingly, some on this forum are displaying gross insensitvity and a lack of decency. [moderator note - the posts referred to have been deleted] Please remember that a fellow aviator and an aviation enthusiast are injured in hospital and their family and friends are anxiously awaiting news and hoping for their recovery. It would be much more appropriate to reserve jovial comments for another thread and a different time.
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Old 16th May 2011, 09:55
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Man dies after Tiger Moth plane crashes in a field near Moor Crichel (From Bournemouth Echo)

Unfortunately at least one of them has died
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Old 16th May 2011, 10:08
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Short video of the wreckage field on the BBC website.
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Old 16th May 2011, 14:01
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Broomstick

If you can't stand the heat......

There is in every thread on a GA crash at least one post similar to yours, nothing new there.

This is a forum where we discuss what may have caused just such accidents including errors of judgement by the pilot. It's what this forum is for, it is part of how we learn, and the aviation industry learns better than most industries....

Best steer relatives away from this site, and let's continue with our thoughts on the matter.
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Old 16th May 2011, 14:24
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A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
 
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Originally Posted by vanHorck View Post
Broomstick

If you can't stand the heat......

There is in every thread on a GA crash at least one post similar to yours, nothing new there.

This is a forum where we discuss what may have caused just such accidents including errors of judgement by the pilot. It's what this forum is for, it is part of how we learn, and the aviation industry learns better than most industries....

Best steer relatives away from this site, and let's continue with our thoughts on the matter.
Sadly, it isn't as simple as that VH.

The fact remains that this site is one that the press will reference directly following an aviation accident, and opinions, conjecture and snippets of 'information' posted here have a habit of appearing on national news sites shortly thereafter.

Hence, when posting here in circumstances such as these, it is a case of assuming that whatever you write may well appear in front of the relatives of those affected in short order, regardless of whether they ever actually visit this forum.
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Old 16th May 2011, 14:27
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It does appear to me that when there is an accident abroad from U.K. everything is ok but when it happens in the U.K. you get a totally different comments on here. I may be wrong.

I do hope the other guy pulls through.
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Old 16th May 2011, 15:04
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JXC, the comments on this forum are more likely to be more concialliatory towards UK accident victims as its a UK based forum and forumites are more likely to know the victims and even if they don't, the accident is 'closer to home' for them.

VanHork is absolutely right with his post. However, I have refrained from speculating on the cause of the accident as one family has just lost a member of the crew and the other is presumably in a pretty bad way. This circumstance is different from say a lone pilot who was known to be of a poor standard managing to destroy a perfectly good aeroplane and himself through bad airmanship.

A couple of days hence, when the press at large have lost interest in this tragic accident, I for one will be debating the cause of this accident on this forum with other pilots. The reason for this is not to upset anybody, rather it is to prevent my relatives from going through the same these Tiger pilots'. The more we discuss safety, the better we get at it.
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Old 16th May 2011, 15:57
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Unfortunately, we have another "accident" and "aerobatics" being mentioned in the same story. There are too many of these wretched stories but I'm totally at a loss to suggest what we can do to break the link. I'll have to admit that I have in the past also pulled some rather stupid stunts and can fully understand the attraction of flying in an "interesting fashion." I was lucky as not only did I not hurt anybody else, I also lived. But there has to be something we can do to safely channel people's urge to "push it a bit."

PM
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Old 16th May 2011, 16:08
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Broomstick...Spot on.

Does seem that the thread has been tidyed up slightly since earlier though!

All my thoughts are with you guys and your families
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Old 16th May 2011, 16:18
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Experience

I agree that there have been a number recently where it would appear that an 'aero' has gone sour. A few years ago, I was at the top of a loop in a Chipmunk, about 5000', thankfully, when it 'flicked'. I scared myself senseless, however, I came away from the incident realising that I required to be 'professionally' trained - I had been self taught up to that point. In other words I did not know the recovery procedures.

That was what I did - I went and re-trained, however, the incident stuck. i.e. I never wanted to get into that position ever again, where I was not prepared.

I do hope that the other individual involved survives this, and sorry about the person who sadly did not.

I have made no assumptions about the training standard, or experiences of those involved.
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Old 16th May 2011, 16:23
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I think that when it comes to aerobatics, the arena of competition is the best place for it. It satisfies the urge to compete. When done at basic/beginner level you do it high enough up to get out of trouble. The main benefit though is the review of your flying by experts in the field.

Anybody flying dangerously in the box is told they are. Tuition to fix your bad habits is also easy to come by.

Its far safer than simply going off by yourself or worse taking someone with you to show off.

Aeros will always be less safe than cruising, just as hunting is less safe than buying your food from a shop, but we still do it because its what we live for.
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Old 16th May 2011, 17:21
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OK, I will try to be gentle and still ask the questions I have in my head.

I do not do aerobatics.
Nor do I know if aerobatics were being performed on this flight

When we do our stall training as normal PPL's we have the full HASELL checks. We do not carry passengers. Then again, it may be wise to include passengers prior to their training (assuming they are pilots too intent on doing aerobatics). There is no other reason to carry passengers on aerobatic flights.

Do Aerobatic pilots do HASELL checks or are they "beyond" these?
What is the standing rule for carrying passengers when executing aerobatics?
What is the minimum acceptable height for aerobatics when having passengers on board?
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Old 16th May 2011, 17:35
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vH

Answering your questions, and having no regard for the unfortunate accident in which I suspect none of us know what happened.

There is no other reason to carry passengers on aerobatic flights
Aerobatics, correctly and safely conducted as taught, are no more hazardous than normal flying. If the aircraft remains in W&B, then whether passengers are carried or not is irrelevant IMHO. Only concern I have is that the passenger is keen, briefed and is checked throughout to ensure they are happy to continue.

Do Aerobatic pilots do HASELL checks or are they "beyond" these?
Yes. As per stalling, adjusted (e.g. Min Hts) as required. 'Security' becomes particularly important.

What is the standing rule for carrying passengers when executing aerobatics?
See above.

What is the minimum acceptable height for aerobatics when having passengers on board?
Depends on type and pilot experience / training. In general, same height as without Passengers, except when getting into "display" aerobatics and practices, when heights drop and passengers are less suitable / prohibited. As a guide (but others will have different opinions) 3000' might be a good starting point as a "no go below". Adjust that as other factors see fit...

NoD

PS The USA has a strange rule about passengers requiring parachutes for aerobatics. In itself, it is meaningless without adding training, whether you can abandon that aircraft type, min heights for spin abandonment etc.

Last edited by NigelOnDraft; 16th May 2011 at 17:50.
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