Wing dropping stall recovery.
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Wing dropping stall recovery.
How do you recover your stalls in less behaved aircraft that tend to drop a wing (assuming it it's not spinning yet, of course)?
With rudder only or elevator and then aileron once out of stall?
With rudder only or elevator and then aileron once out of stall?
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Use rudder to halt any further wing drop while decreasing the angle of attack. This isn't a 2 phase action it is done at the same time.
Then roll wings level again once the aircraft isn't stalled any more using aileon.
Its well worth getting hold a a gliding flying manual they seem to have this stuff way better explained. To be honest from the glider pilots I have seen its taught alot better in gliding courses than most powered pilots get.
Then roll wings level again once the aircraft isn't stalled any more using aileon.
Its well worth getting hold a a gliding flying manual they seem to have this stuff way better explained. To be honest from the glider pilots I have seen its taught alot better in gliding courses than most powered pilots get.
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Yep. You use rudder and elevator because those are the only two flying surfaces that are almost certainly not stalled.
You don't use ailerons to correct the wing dip during the stall because your wings are stalled. Using the ailerons may worsen the situation. Although "modern" designs are so that the inboard portion of the wings stall first, and the outboard section last. So to an extent, in those designs, ailerons will remain active up to and into the stall.
You do use ailerons after you've broken the stall though. First roll to the nearest horizon, then pitch up to recover from the dive.
Don't pull up and roll at the same time though. This leads to the "wing root bending" effect, where the wing root on the upgoing wing is stressed because of both the pitch up and the rolling moment. In extreme cases this may lead to excess g stresses which don't register on a g meter or elsewhere, and thus hidden defects.
Probably not relevant when you do a proper recovery from a simple 1G/S&L stall in a well-behaved aircraft, but good training for aerobatics and/or stall recovery in nasty types.
You don't use ailerons to correct the wing dip during the stall because your wings are stalled. Using the ailerons may worsen the situation. Although "modern" designs are so that the inboard portion of the wings stall first, and the outboard section last. So to an extent, in those designs, ailerons will remain active up to and into the stall.
You do use ailerons after you've broken the stall though. First roll to the nearest horizon, then pitch up to recover from the dive.
Don't pull up and roll at the same time though. This leads to the "wing root bending" effect, where the wing root on the upgoing wing is stressed because of both the pitch up and the rolling moment. In extreme cases this may lead to excess g stresses which don't register on a g meter or elsewhere, and thus hidden defects.
Probably not relevant when you do a proper recovery from a simple 1G/S&L stall in a well-behaved aircraft, but good training for aerobatics and/or stall recovery in nasty types.
Keep the aircraft in balance with rudder - don't be tempted to 'pick up the wing' or 'stop any wing drop'. That teaching went out years ago (except perhaps where dinosaurs still roam..).
Full power and control column centrally forward until the stall ident stops.
Then and only then, roll wings level and recover from the descent.
Full power and control column centrally forward until the stall ident stops.
Then and only then, roll wings level and recover from the descent.
I'm with Beagle. Rudder isn't there to provide roll control. It's a *yaw* control - so use it for that.
After recovering from the stall - in whatever angle of bank that might be - and the aircraft is flying again, then use conventional coordinated aileron & rudder to roll to the nearest horizon. Once wings level, pitch to recover to S&L or climbing flight. If power is available then select full power once the angle of attack has been reduced during the stall recovery actions.
After recovering from the stall - in whatever angle of bank that might be - and the aircraft is flying again, then use conventional coordinated aileron & rudder to roll to the nearest horizon. Once wings level, pitch to recover to S&L or climbing flight. If power is available then select full power once the angle of attack has been reduced during the stall recovery actions.
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Beagle, Tinstaa, SoCal - being contrarian devil's advocate: To that I would argue that a wing drop is a more stalled wing than the other and therefore you're into the onsets of a spin, therefore spin recovery techniques are in place. Which means rudder.
I'm also with BEagle, there is no immediate benefit to picking up the wing.
Unstall it with pitch and power (CAA would say together, FAA would say pitch first, both works, CAA loses a bit less height, take your pick), once it's flying again, roll wings level and climb.
Leave the rudder and ailerons firmly still until the aeroplane is unstalled and flying again.
G
Unstall it with pitch and power (CAA would say together, FAA would say pitch first, both works, CAA loses a bit less height, take your pick), once it's flying again, roll wings level and climb.
Leave the rudder and ailerons firmly still until the aeroplane is unstalled and flying again.
G
G
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The reason I asked is because I've been taught both by different instructors at different times. My inclination would be to push forward and do a normal stall recovery, but there might be some traction to the rudder variant.
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I'm not sure I'm following this.
When I did accelerated stalls in the Warrior if the wing dropped and it could be vicious, the drop was stopped with opposite rudder, yawing the plane if you like away from the dropped wing arresting any further wing drop.
Recovery was then as described. Stick forward, power on level the wings with aileron when they were 'un-stalled'
Surely if you do nothing with the rudder when you have a rapidly dropping wing there is the risk of entering a semi-stalled spiral dive in which case normal stall recovery is not what is required, power off, level wings, recover from the dive. Hence I was taught to catch the wing drop with rudder. The only really 'dumb' thing you could do was to give rudder in the same sense as the wing drop, i.e. a classic spin entry.
Not saying it is right or wrong, just trying to figure out why not to use rudder to catch a dropping wing when it is all you have left. As discussed aileron is of no use so if the wing is rapidly falling away how do you arrest it without rudder?
I can see an argument for keeping the aircraft in balance for the stall, then it won't drop a wing, hmmmmm is that the point of the exercise? I thought a dangerous stall was one you didn't expect not the one you planned.
When I did accelerated stalls in the Warrior if the wing dropped and it could be vicious, the drop was stopped with opposite rudder, yawing the plane if you like away from the dropped wing arresting any further wing drop.
Recovery was then as described. Stick forward, power on level the wings with aileron when they were 'un-stalled'
Surely if you do nothing with the rudder when you have a rapidly dropping wing there is the risk of entering a semi-stalled spiral dive in which case normal stall recovery is not what is required, power off, level wings, recover from the dive. Hence I was taught to catch the wing drop with rudder. The only really 'dumb' thing you could do was to give rudder in the same sense as the wing drop, i.e. a classic spin entry.
Not saying it is right or wrong, just trying to figure out why not to use rudder to catch a dropping wing when it is all you have left. As discussed aileron is of no use so if the wing is rapidly falling away how do you arrest it without rudder?
I can see an argument for keeping the aircraft in balance for the stall, then it won't drop a wing, hmmmmm is that the point of the exercise? I thought a dangerous stall was one you didn't expect not the one you planned.
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A question. How is a conventional spin initiated?
Depends on type, but generally, power off, stick full back, full rudder into the direction of the spin, perhaps opposite sense aileron for some types.
My question is how are you suppose to recover correctly if you have 90 degree bank due to a dropped wing that was not checked? As you can't pick up the wing with aileron, a rapid yaw in the opposite sense of the drop will accelerate the wing **enough** to arrest the drop. The point being recovery is not about 'properly' executed stalls, it should be instinctive in messy ones too.
http://www.helitavia.com/docs/CAP562...orthy_info.pdf
Link explaining semi-stalled spiral dive condition.
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Depends on type, but generally, power off, stick full back, full rudder into the direction of the spin
Don't forget that while you are accelerating one wing you'll be decelerating the other. Maybe enough to induce a stall and, therefore, spin in the opposite direction to your wing drop.
how are you suppose to recover correctly if you have 90 degree bank due to a dropped wing
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Don't forget that while you are accelerating one wing you'll be decelerating the other. Maybe enough to induce a stall and, therefore, spin in the opposite direction to your wing drop.
The fact is though I've seen the rapid yaw to catch the wing demonstrated and have used it. We never entered a spin in the opposite direction. It's all one smooth movement, catch the drop nose down, power on and recover.
Remember too I was talking about accelerated stalls or if you like power on stalls, when very likely it is the outer wing sections that are stalled first (no airflow from the prop) and wing drop can be very sudden. I can't imagine how one would simply put the nose the down and level the wings from that flight condition in a Warrior if the wing drop wasn't first caught by rudder, the thing would be in an extremely uncomfortable attitude by that time and likely the story would be over.
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Don't think of it as lowering the nose - although that is what you do if you're straight and levelish - it's more a case of reducing your angle of attack. You can do that at 90, 180 or even 270
degrees of bank.
If you try hard enough in the Warrior I'm sure you could get an accelerated stall inverted (I don't recommend it though). What are your actions going to be then?
degrees of bank.If you try hard enough in the Warrior I'm sure you could get an accelerated stall inverted (I don't recommend it though). What are your actions going to be then?
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If you try hard enough in the Warrior I'm sure you could get an accelerated stall inverted (I don't recommend it though). What are your actions going to be then?
eeeer.... pull back?
Can't wait to do some aeros and find out more.
Sorry I had to edit that as inverted mode didn't work out in my head