Draconian 3 day airspace restriction
Thread Starter
Draconian 3 day airspace restriction
It would appear that for THREE days, over 6-8 May, a large amount of airspace will have a 10nm dia RA(T). This is for a ONE-day medium sized air display at Abingdon, with seemingly no Red Arrows participation.
It comes from CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy, ‘Airspace Coordination Notice’ 2011-05-0003 dated 15/3/11
This is remarkable compared to many far larger airshows that do not have a RA(T) and certainly not for the 2 days before the event. Let’s be clear - this is not Farnborough or Fairford; this is a one day airshow much smaller than many others that would only have a RA(T) for the Red Arrows (and then only for about 50 minutes on the day).
Obviously a 3 hour airshow the size of Abingdon must have protection, but a ban on flying over a diameter of 10 nm & for 3 days and a total of 12.75 hours is disproportionate. In the last few days we have seen airspace departments that are detached from reality, have no concern for GA and need some sort of ombudsman to keep them in check.
This seems to be taking the proverbial; it follows on nicely from the attitude we have seen from the Olympic airspace restrictions. This needs to be watched as it may be the start of a new era for GA.
It comes from CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy, ‘Airspace Coordination Notice’ 2011-05-0003 dated 15/3/11
This is remarkable compared to many far larger airshows that do not have a RA(T) and certainly not for the 2 days before the event. Let’s be clear - this is not Farnborough or Fairford; this is a one day airshow much smaller than many others that would only have a RA(T) for the Red Arrows (and then only for about 50 minutes on the day).
Obviously a 3 hour airshow the size of Abingdon must have protection, but a ban on flying over a diameter of 10 nm & for 3 days and a total of 12.75 hours is disproportionate. In the last few days we have seen airspace departments that are detached from reality, have no concern for GA and need some sort of ombudsman to keep them in check.
This seems to be taking the proverbial; it follows on nicely from the attitude we have seen from the Olympic airspace restrictions. This needs to be watched as it may be the start of a new era for GA.
Do you really have a pressing need to be within 10 nm of Abingdon during those 12.75 hours?
Is it that big a deal?
Would it have ever got to this if airshow organisers hadn't had years of numpties busting their airspace?
You get what you deserve in this life and, I think, GA is the same.
Is it that big a deal?
Would it have ever got to this if airshow organisers hadn't had years of numpties busting their airspace?
You get what you deserve in this life and, I think, GA is the same.
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This sort of restriction is actually far more sensible than the Olymics restrictions. I haven't looked at the lineup for Abingdon, but presume there will be fast jets displaying, which take up a lot of space, particularly formations. Segregating the airspace is not a bad idea, for all parties. This sort of thing I cannot argue against; the Olypmic restrictions on the other hand.....
Thread Starter
No fast jet formation teams are listed
This is a one day airshow and it is relatively small compared to others that have much less restricted airspace.
No fast jet formation teams are listed on the website or the ACN.
Why 3 days with a RA(T)?
No fast jet formation teams are listed on the website or the ACN.
Why 3 days with a RA(T)?
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If you look at the show website, the reason is obvious.
They've only gone and invited the Daleks! Did you see the chaos they created a couple of Christmas specials ago? Just asking for trouble, hence the need for the RA(T)!
They've only gone and invited the Daleks! Did you see the chaos they created a couple of Christmas specials ago? Just asking for trouble, hence the need for the RA(T)!
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Do you really have a pressing need to be within 10 nm of Abingdon during those 12.75 hours?
A RA(T) of 5 mile radius from Abingdon closes the Brize-Benson "gap" which can be one of the busiest pieces of GA airspace in the UK.
'just another atco'
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I am sure that you could always ask for access to the RA(T) and if it is not supporting display activity at that given point then access would be granted by the organiser. Or that is at least how it should work.
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I do feel that those shooting down NONRAD are missing the point being made. Just because someone can apply for and have an RA(T) granted does not mean it is reasonable or acceptable. There appears to be no way of challenging such matters, especially when it is the military setting the scene. J.A.F.O. your comments are at best somewhat idiotic for those who may have a requirement to be near to Abingdon at that time and as for the "get what you deserve comment" it is frankly insulting. Because a few non professional pilots make an error from time to time it does not follow that all GA pilots are in the same category. Are all CAT pilots the same because the odd one busts an assigned level? Are all military pilots idiots because a few continue to bust ATZ (and Controlled Airspace for that matter). Remember the last two categories are supposed to be PROFESSIONAL pilots and they get it wrong occasionally.
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They've only gone and invited the Daleks!
You understand that this is for display purposes only because it wouldn't happen in real life would it? It wouldn't would it????????????
WorkingHard
Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone here had busted displays or that anyone here deserved it as an individual; it just seems to me that the reasoning behind the extended buffer zone may stem from the actions of a few in the past.
I honestly can't see it presenting a problem though, there'll be a controlling authority for the airspace, if you have a dire need to be within 5nm of Abingdon during the few hours of display practices on the previous two days then ask and, if it's not needed for safety, then I'm sure they'll sort something out.
They wouldn't have asked for the RA(T) if they didn't feel they needed it.
It's a few hours on a couple of days to protect those practicing and then a bit longer on the day itself. I don't get why it's a big deal.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone here had busted displays or that anyone here deserved it as an individual; it just seems to me that the reasoning behind the extended buffer zone may stem from the actions of a few in the past.
I honestly can't see it presenting a problem though, there'll be a controlling authority for the airspace, if you have a dire need to be within 5nm of Abingdon during the few hours of display practices on the previous two days then ask and, if it's not needed for safety, then I'm sure they'll sort something out.
They wouldn't have asked for the RA(T) if they didn't feel they needed it.
It's a few hours on a couple of days to protect those practicing and then a bit longer on the day itself. I don't get why it's a big deal.
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JAFO
I refer you to the AAIB report (Formal Report 5/2010 published September 2010) on the Tutor/glider midair near Didcot in June 2009 which included a chart of the traffic density near Abingdon on that day. The Brize/Benson gap is one of the busiest pieces of Class G in the country. And it appears that the said gap is being closed for 3 days.
This is serious for GA. As commented, it appears possible for the system to impose this RAT without the slightest comeback for all the other airspace users affected. Democracy in action???
I refer you to the AAIB report (Formal Report 5/2010 published September 2010) on the Tutor/glider midair near Didcot in June 2009 which included a chart of the traffic density near Abingdon on that day. The Brize/Benson gap is one of the busiest pieces of Class G in the country. And it appears that the said gap is being closed for 3 days.
This is serious for GA. As commented, it appears possible for the system to impose this RAT without the slightest comeback for all the other airspace users affected. Democracy in action???
Last edited by astir 8; 17th Mar 2011 at 09:12.
Nonrad: I don't see your problem. I spent a lot of time at Farnborough explaining to people that RA(T) is NOT prohibited airpsace and that one of the conditions of granting it is that other pilots should have access provided they make 2 way contact and obey ATC instructions. Even glider pilots operating from Lasham and Parham were happy with this. Treat it like Class D airspace and you won't go far wrong.
chevvron - That's what I was trying to say, I don't see why it's a problem.
Astir
Which is precisely why you'd want a bit of protection if you were wanging round on display practice.
No, it isn't. It has some restrictions for a few hours on those days.
Astir
I refer you to the AAIB report (Formal Report 5/2010 published September 2010) on the Tutor/glider midair near Didcot in June 2009 which included a chart of the traffic density near Abingdon on that day. The Brize/Benson gap is one of the busiest pieces of Class G in the country.
And it appears that the said gap is being closed for 3 days.
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JAFO
I think you're missing the point. Some nameless bureaucrat has issued a restriction on the free use of a very heavily piece of airspace without the slightest consultation of those who will be inconvenienced.
We are supposed to live in a democracy where the bureaucrats work for all of us, not just the organisers of some airshow. Doh!
I think you're missing the point. Some nameless bureaucrat has issued a restriction on the free use of a very heavily piece of airspace without the slightest consultation of those who will be inconvenienced.
We are supposed to live in a democracy where the bureaucrats work for all of us, not just the organisers of some airshow. Doh!
Temporary Controlled Airspace (CAS{T}) will be airspace under which the rules for entry are ICAO standard, whereas in Temporary Restricted Airspace (RA{T}) the rules are whatever (within reason) the sponsors or controlling authority decide.
Thread Starter
I smell a RAT
I am very, very pro airshows, but taking the p with a RA(T) does them harm, that is my big worry. The RA(T) on the day is understandable, but not the additional days.
Someone has been unprofessional in requesting this extra restriction and it should be addressed; there should be a better check in the allocating system to stop any abuse. Having what is absolutely necessary is fine, but what has been obtained is excessive and is unfair on other users.
It is a smallish ONE day airshow with about 15 displays, if this airspace had to be paid for I think they would have managed without the extra 2 practice days. I do hope Brize have extra staff on duty to cope with all the radio calls and there are no ‘standby and remain clear’ replies. Hopefully Abingdon would be pleased to pay for the workload on the 2 extra days. I also feel sorry for the non-radio pilots in the area
The Olympics’ airspace is for 8 weeks instead of 4; here we see ‘our own’ doing the same. Shooting and foot spring to mind.
Someone has been unprofessional in requesting this extra restriction and it should be addressed; there should be a better check in the allocating system to stop any abuse. Having what is absolutely necessary is fine, but what has been obtained is excessive and is unfair on other users.
It is a smallish ONE day airshow with about 15 displays, if this airspace had to be paid for I think they would have managed without the extra 2 practice days. I do hope Brize have extra staff on duty to cope with all the radio calls and there are no ‘standby and remain clear’ replies. Hopefully Abingdon would be pleased to pay for the workload on the 2 extra days. I also feel sorry for the non-radio pilots in the area
The Olympics’ airspace is for 8 weeks instead of 4; here we see ‘our own’ doing the same. Shooting and foot spring to mind.
Avoid imitations
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If anyone has been affected by issues in this thread..... why not get your own back, by claiming to fly kites all day every day, anywhere within three nm of your house, up to cloudbase level and getting that in the permanent NOTAMs?
