SEP & north pole
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SEP & north pole
Hello all,
I was wondering if it would be possible and (reasonable) safe to fly over the geographical north pole with a SEP airplane.
Assuming one starts at the most northern airport in Canada, and flies directly towards the pole, it's a 450 NM trip x 2 = 900 NM. Assuming we have an airplane with a range over 1000 NM, this should be theoretical possible.
Now, what I am curious about:
* If an airplane is insured to fly in Canada, does this mean you can fly towards the geographical North pole for this ? I read that Canada claimed a piece of the north pole.
* What about the weather. During summer, is the weather at the north pole rather stable, or very unreliable ? Icing shouldn't be a problem in a CAVOK day. But then again, you are 3-5 hours away from the nearest airport.
* Rescue services: are there any available in this area ? If so, how to reach them once you are out of range of any radio station ? Especially when flying with a SEP @ FL100 tops.
This started more as a philosophical kind of question, but I would seriously want to do this someday, depending on the information this thread will provide.
Kind regards,
Digits
I was wondering if it would be possible and (reasonable) safe to fly over the geographical north pole with a SEP airplane.
Assuming one starts at the most northern airport in Canada, and flies directly towards the pole, it's a 450 NM trip x 2 = 900 NM. Assuming we have an airplane with a range over 1000 NM, this should be theoretical possible.
Now, what I am curious about:
* If an airplane is insured to fly in Canada, does this mean you can fly towards the geographical North pole for this ? I read that Canada claimed a piece of the north pole.
* What about the weather. During summer, is the weather at the north pole rather stable, or very unreliable ? Icing shouldn't be a problem in a CAVOK day. But then again, you are 3-5 hours away from the nearest airport.
* Rescue services: are there any available in this area ? If so, how to reach them once you are out of range of any radio station ? Especially when flying with a SEP @ FL100 tops.
This started more as a philosophical kind of question, but I would seriously want to do this someday, depending on the information this thread will provide.
Kind regards,
Digits
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Which North Pole are you talking about?
Some would be much more difficult to reach than others. The problem isn't really the distance, it's the weather. I don't know what the height amsl the North Poles are, but could be significant - meaning that you wouldn't be able to get high enough. There wouldn't be any rescue services provided, so you wouldn't need to worry about being able to get in touch with any of them.
- Geographic North Pole – the northernmost point on Earth.
- North Magnetic Pole – the shifting point on the Earth's surface where the Earth's magnetic field points directly downwards.
- North Geomagnetic Pole – the point of intersection of the Earth's surface with the axis of a simple magnetic dipole.
- Northern Pole of Inaccessibility – the point in the Arctic Ocean farthest from land.
- Ceremonial North Pole - where people go to have their photograph taken
Some would be much more difficult to reach than others. The problem isn't really the distance, it's the weather. I don't know what the height amsl the North Poles are, but could be significant - meaning that you wouldn't be able to get high enough. There wouldn't be any rescue services provided, so you wouldn't need to worry about being able to get in touch with any of them.
The closest airports, Alert, Eureka and Thule are run by the military. They do not welcome tourists.
The closest civil airport seems to be Resolute. Twotters from there have been known to do flights to the pole; sometimes even land nearby to pick up people who have taken it in their heads to hike/ski/swim there.
March is a good month for this as there is daylight and ice to land upon.
Perhaps Ken Borek Air at Resolute may be hired to position some fuel drums at a farther North landing strip that your tires would be suitable for -- they use tundra tires.
The closest civil airport seems to be Resolute. Twotters from there have been known to do flights to the pole; sometimes even land nearby to pick up people who have taken it in their heads to hike/ski/swim there.
March is a good month for this as there is daylight and ice to land upon.
Perhaps Ken Borek Air at Resolute may be hired to position some fuel drums at a farther North landing strip that your tires would be suitable for -- they use tundra tires.
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A number of people have done this.
Reading some of the writeups, it seems a substantial exercise in logistics, right down to "trivia" like getting a permit to carry a shotgun (for bears, in case you meet one bigger than you, before you get rescued
) and yes paperwork, more paperwork and then some more paperwork.
Weather appreciation will be vital.
The actual flying is a non-event, I suspect, because a decent GPS should still function although there isn't any map data N of something like 75N, in the common GNS IFR units.
I suspect the HDG mode of the autopilot might produce "interesting results" But the NAV mode should work OK, though you might need to cross the pole in the ROL (wings level) mode because the AP is still essentially flying a heading when in NAV mode.
Not many singles have that much range though. My TB20 will do 1350nm in best economy cruise, to zero fuel. I've done 900nm flights, but you want a few alternates
Winds could also ruin your whole day. For more range you might want something like a TBM700/850 which will do about 1600-1800nm to zero fuel (and in which the flight should be easy, at FL300+).
Reading some of the writeups, it seems a substantial exercise in logistics, right down to "trivia" like getting a permit to carry a shotgun (for bears, in case you meet one bigger than you, before you get rescued
) and yes paperwork, more paperwork and then some more paperwork.Weather appreciation will be vital.
The actual flying is a non-event, I suspect, because a decent GPS should still function although there isn't any map data N of something like 75N, in the common GNS IFR units.
I suspect the HDG mode of the autopilot might produce "interesting results"
But the NAV mode should work OK, though you might need to cross the pole in the ROL (wings level) mode because the AP is still essentially flying a heading when in NAV mode.Not many singles have that much range though. My TB20 will do 1350nm in best economy cruise, to zero fuel. I've done 900nm flights, but you want a few alternates
Winds could also ruin your whole day. For more range you might want something like a TBM700/850 which will do about 1600-1800nm to zero fuel (and in which the flight should be easy, at FL300+).
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I was talking about the Geographic North Pole, so the one located at 90°N.
I also checked the current location of the magnetic north pole, and this one is located quite close to airports, so this should be 'easier'.
The average temperatures during summer are between -10 / +3 °C, which is like winter temperatures in our regions. Why would tundra tires be required then ?
Thanks for your input.
I also checked the current location of the magnetic north pole, and this one is located quite close to airports, so this should be 'easier'.
The average temperatures during summer are between -10 / +3 °C, which is like winter temperatures in our regions. Why would tundra tires be required then ?
Thanks for your input.
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IO540, why is there so much paperwork involved ? It looks to me like you stay inside canadian airspace, so why would this legally be any different than a normal domestic flight ?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Seeing O/P's location, ENSB Svalbard might be a better point of departure. It's a bit further South, but it would save crossing the great pond.
@troddenmasses: the opening msg. clearly states to fly over the geographical north pole Now that we've got a clear unambiguous question for this once...
@troddenmasses: the opening msg. clearly states to fly over the geographical north pole Now that we've got a clear unambiguous question for this once...
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Timothy Nathan did it in his Aztec a couple of years ago. Alright, not a SEP but a MEP and similar numbers to many SEPs.Maybe you are braver than him but just one tiny thing to bear in mind, in a SEP if you go down it will be almost certain death.
I would assume the proper north pole is very close to sea level (plus or minus a few thousand), considering it is made of frozen sea There are no mountains there, that is for sure, the air will be nice and cold so density alt not a problem, and any SEP would be able to fly over it. On a nice day I imagine it would be very pleasant flying, smooth, good viz...
I would assume the proper north pole is very close to sea level (plus or minus a few thousand), considering it is made of frozen sea
There are no mountains there, that is for sure, the air will be nice and cold so density alt not a problem, and any SEP would be able to fly over it. On a nice day I imagine it would be very pleasant flying, smooth, good viz...
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Thanks for the Svalbar hint, but my location is irrelevant. Since I haven't found someone willing to rent me a plane to cross the ocean, I'll probably rent one in USA or Canada if I ever do it. Which would make the range the most important factor to find a reasonable priced airplane.
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in a SEP if you go down it will be almost certain death.
With the right equipment, good weather, very good insurance and a dose of luck you'll be fine!
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in a SEP if you go down it will be almost certain death.
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Yes, for pure avgas, but any dissolved water will cause it to wax at much higher temps, and the Aztec seems to suffer from this more than most types (reportedly; I have been totally unable to establish any reason why it might).
I have never dug out any indication of a TB20/21 suffering from fuel icing, and I have flown for hours in -30C or so. Same engine type, too.
Maybe the Aztec has a fuel selector which is mounted on the airframe skin so it gets very cold. The TB20 fuel selector assembly (with the filter etc) is warmed by the cockpit. Or maybe the owner has knackered filler cap seals? Quite common in GA.
I have never dug out any indication of a TB20/21 suffering from fuel icing, and I have flown for hours in -30C or so. Same engine type, too.
Maybe the Aztec has a fuel selector which is mounted on the airframe skin so it gets very cold. The TB20 fuel selector assembly (with the filter etc) is warmed by the cockpit. Or maybe the owner has knackered filler cap seals? Quite common in GA.
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Not sure of you're license situation, but I'd recommend that you buy the General Navigation ATPL book first. Polar Navigation even if you do use a GPS must be second nature and an aircraft with a decent gyro is a must (North is referenced to a meridian (Grid North) rather than magnetic north and is used in areas where the magnetic disturbance due to dip/being close to pole makes nav difficult if not impossible.)
