Overhead Join in UK please!!
Thread Starter
Overhead Join in UK please!!
Hi all,
Could anyone point me to where, in their respective AIP that instructions are given for joining the traffic at an uncontrolled airfield.
uA.......
Could anyone point me to where, in their respective AIP that instructions are given for joining the traffic at an uncontrolled airfield.
uA.......
Beacon Outbound
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "Home is were the answer machine is"
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a starting point.
NATS | AIS - Home
EDIT:
That link doen't seem to work. Try going to AIS.ORG.UK, then go to
IAIP -->> Aerodrome Index - Specific
If there are specific requirements regarding joins it will be in section 2.22, Flight Procedures. If you look at the AIP pages for Duxford it states 'there are no overhead joins at Duxford'.
You might have to be a bit more specific regarding the field your question is about. It might be more of a 'rules of the air' or 'airmanship' issue than an AIP issue.
Ultimately, at an uncontrolled airfield they cannot (by definition) tell you to fly around the circuit in a particular manner. But it does help everybody if you do it the way they ask you to. It possibly also means you're welcome to visit again should you wish to.
NATS | AIS - Home
EDIT:
That link doen't seem to work. Try going to AIS.ORG.UK, then go to
IAIP -->> Aerodrome Index - Specific
If there are specific requirements regarding joins it will be in section 2.22, Flight Procedures. If you look at the AIP pages for Duxford it states 'there are no overhead joins at Duxford'.
You might have to be a bit more specific regarding the field your question is about. It might be more of a 'rules of the air' or 'airmanship' issue than an AIP issue.
Ultimately, at an uncontrolled airfield they cannot (by definition) tell you to fly around the circuit in a particular manner. But it does help everybody if you do it the way they ask you to. It possibly also means you're welcome to visit again should you wish to.
Last edited by IRRenewal; 20th Apr 2010 at 08:45. Reason: trying to fix link
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A long way from home
Age: 44
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
I tried following IRRenewal's link, but it didn't work. He was probably pointing you to the same thing as I'm about to suggest:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ga_srgw...osterJan09.pdf
I tried following IRRenewal's link, but it didn't work. He was probably pointing you to the same thing as I'm about to suggest:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ga_srgw...osterJan09.pdf
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ultimately, at an uncontrolled airfield they cannot (by definition) tell you to fly around the circuit in a particular manner.
Uncontrolled means that there is no ATC service but that does not absolve anyone from following the procedures that have been published in the AIP.
Now, an unlicensed strip is another matter....
Only do an overhead join if it's requested. Don't assume there's a 'deadside'. There often isn't, for any number of reasons. At some major fly-ins a temporary overhead join is put in place when traffic volume is likely to be high. My home base has no deadside and should you choose to invent one you'd be less than popular with the operator or local residents.
Always sensible to assume that there will be square-jawed, sky heroes aerobating in the overhead, so always a good idea to call and ask beforehand what the preferred joining procedure is.
Regards, jez
Regards, jez
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AND DON'T EVEN THINK OF TRYING AN OVERHEAD JOIN AT A WINCH SITE GLIDING CLUB!
Prior permission should have let you know that, but we had a chap who actually kept his little plane at our gliding site who suffered a brain failure on return from elsewhere. Fortunately the winch driver noticed, otherwise he might have been reeled in like an unfortunate tuna....
No two airfields alike, that's the rule.
Prior permission should have let you know that, but we had a chap who actually kept his little plane at our gliding site who suffered a brain failure on return from elsewhere. Fortunately the winch driver noticed, otherwise he might have been reeled in like an unfortunate tuna....
No two airfields alike, that's the rule.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not a million miles from EGTF
Age: 68
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a slightly separate note, was there any work done to assess the feasibility of a US-style 45-degree downwind join, across the whole of the UK?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 61
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't forget parachute sites!!
From Lashenden's AIP entry:
OC619
From Lashenden's AIP entry:
b. Whilst parachuting is in progress:
- No overhead joining, aeroplanes should join downwind of the runway-in-use;
- Aeroplanes are to avoid the Drop Zone and the area in the undershoot of Runway 29 whenever parachuting is in progress;
- Helicopters may not operate in the ATZ and should check with A/G Station that no parachuting is in progress before engaging rotors.
aceatco, retired
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: one airshow or another
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Ultimately, at an uncontrolled airfield they cannot (by definition) tell you to fly around the circuit in a particular manner.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jockistan
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by 140KIAS; 21st Apr 2010 at 22:27. Reason: turned down the volume
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pembrokeshire UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OMG! Not the dreaded OHJ again. The dangers of this have been done to death on numerous posts here. Always phone and check the prefered joining procedure, and use safetycom if it is a private strip. Any local traffic will be able to give you r/w in use, wind, etc. Please please don't visit an uncontrolled strip in France and do an OHJ
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NE England
Age: 53
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slightly off topic but what about at a private airfield -do an overhead join as standard to assess wind direction and ground conditions, or low approach and go around?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the legality of disregarding instructions at a Class G airfield (I thought that if it has an ATZ and ATC then the ATCO can issue orders within the ATZ) but unfortunately the OHJ has been brought into some disrepute by a number of A/Gs or FISOs who overly enjoy their perceived power and order arriving pilots to use the OHJ even when there is zero traffic, and (upon query) the man admits he has no known traffic
Panshanger comes to mind, though it is years since I last went there.
I usually intercept the extended runway centreline and join on a long final, unless there is traffic.
Panshanger comes to mind, though it is years since I last went there.
I usually intercept the extended runway centreline and join on a long final, unless there is traffic.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LONDON
Age: 51
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IO540
I don't know the legality of disregarding instructions at a Class G airfield (I thought that if it has an ATZ and ATC then the ATCO can issue orders within the ATZ) but unfortunately the OHJ has been brought into some disrepute by a number of A/Gs or FISOs who overly enjoy their perceived power and order arriving pilots to use the OHJ even when there is zero traffic, and (upon query) the man admits he has no known traffic
I don't know the legality of disregarding instructions at a Class G airfield (I thought that if it has an ATZ and ATC then the ATCO can issue orders within the ATZ) but unfortunately the OHJ has been brought into some disrepute by a number of A/Gs or FISOs who overly enjoy their perceived power and order arriving pilots to use the OHJ even when there is zero traffic, and (upon query) the man admits he has no known traffic
However, my observations from my time around the place is that the radio is not permanently manned as its usually done by instructors that are around the club house at the time (rightfully or wrongfully - I dont know enough yet to judge).
However I would put forward that if whoever spoke to you on the radio could not guarantee there was no traffic in the circuit then the correct thing to do is ask for an ohj so that you can assess the traffic situation yourself.
In my limited knowledge an OHJ is the safest way to join the circuit when the traffic situation is unknown, I concede there are AIP's for different aerodromes where join procedures are different and multiple circuits operate (hopefully we all think ahead and research that before going there).
Would be interested in your views as am still on the learning curve here.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to reply to VMC on top
.
Remember that technically it is illegal to carry out a low approach and go around if the intention is not to land. Having said that I occasionally do both, the overhead join gives time to assess the approaches, wind and other obstacles houses, horses etc, whilts the go around is the final check that there are no rabbit holes or fence posts of other 'stuff' that finds its way onto strips.
But you must look like you're intending to land - so landing configuration and speed and a controlled go around. Try a high speed pass at low level and unfortunately the legal precedent was set a long time ago.
Slightly off topic but what about at a private airfield -do an overhead join as standard to assess wind direction and ground conditions, or low approach and go around?
Remember that technically it is illegal to carry out a low approach and go around if the intention is not to land. Having said that I occasionally do both, the overhead join gives time to assess the approaches, wind and other obstacles houses, horses etc, whilts the go around is the final check that there are no rabbit holes or fence posts of other 'stuff' that finds its way onto strips.
But you must look like you're intending to land - so landing configuration and speed and a controlled go around. Try a high speed pass at low level and unfortunately the legal precedent was set a long time ago.