Volcanic ash cloud and Private / VFR flying (merged)
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm pretty sure that unless one flies through the plume of the volcano, flying through the dispersed cloud won't be a safety-of-flight issue. It's a maintenance issue, and so IO540's right - once the cost of lost business is greater than the increased cost of extra maintenance, the airlines will want to get flying again. Guess that's what KLM and Lufthansa have been up to this weekend.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: one dot low as usual
Age: 66
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is VFR still possible in France/Belgium?
I may have to rescue a couple of mates stranded in Europe tomorrow. Is VFR flight still permitted across to say Lille or Kortrijk?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have NATS / The Met Office / Eurocontrol got it horribly wrong?
Simon Calder, travel editor of the UK newspaper the Independent, says the airline Ukraine International is planning to resume flights at 1000 BST as they believe "the skies are safe". They have reportedly carried out a test flight and are happy with the results.
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines says it has already carried out a test flight from Amsterdam to Dusseldorf and plans eight more throughout the day.
"I got a call from somebody, a very senior figure in the British travel industry - saying the only time aircraft have actually suffered is when they've basically flown right through a volcanic plume as the volcano was erupting."
Is there a growing suspicion that the risk may have been misunderstood?
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines says it has already carried out a test flight from Amsterdam to Dusseldorf and plans eight more throughout the day.
"I got a call from somebody, a very senior figure in the British travel industry - saying the only time aircraft have actually suffered is when they've basically flown right through a volcanic plume as the volcano was erupting."
Is there a growing suspicion that the risk may have been misunderstood?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all a storm in a teacup. It has now gotten so far out of hand that they won't admit they were wrong.
Still it has been amazing flying for us over the last few days!!
Still it has been amazing flying for us over the last few days!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eruption safety.
I should say, definitely not.
The essential thing about an eruption is that it is UNPEDICTABLE.
The amount of gunk it is spewing out at this moment may indeed be minor, (although I don't think I should like this stuff flowing through MY engines and sand-blasting their insides,) however at a moment's notice it could decide to erupt big-time again, when aircraft are actually in the air not too far away.
I suppose they could reduce the size of the no-fly zone to some extent. But I feel it is safest to let it die down completely, because only then will we have any reasonable certainty that it will remain safe.
Broomstick.
The essential thing about an eruption is that it is UNPEDICTABLE.
The amount of gunk it is spewing out at this moment may indeed be minor, (although I don't think I should like this stuff flowing through MY engines and sand-blasting their insides,) however at a moment's notice it could decide to erupt big-time again, when aircraft are actually in the air not too far away.
I suppose they could reduce the size of the no-fly zone to some extent. But I feel it is safest to let it die down completely, because only then will we have any reasonable certainty that it will remain safe.
Broomstick.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Worcestershire
Age: 57
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOAP stands for Spectromatic Oil Analysis Programme. Its a system where by oil samples are taken from engines and checked on a regular basis to predict wear and/or imminent component failure. I used it in the FAA on Lynx engines.
Awesome but Affordable
The present generation of GA light aircraft pilots were probably in their cradles when stubble burning was in vogue a couple of decades ago. For weeks at a time any high pressure system trapped the products of combustion below the inversion level which could go up to FL100 on rare occasions. Visibility in the murk was miserable and there was much solid material in the form of ash that coated the surface of any aircraft whether on the ground or in the air. We endured and survived our excursions into the murk. Why not now.....?????
I fear the current risk averse society and ridiculous H&S legislation brings the need to warn of the danger we are exposed to by being alive never mind getting into the sky in a light aircraft.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If the CAA does not get you then EASA must.
Cheers,
Reaper 69
PS - I renewed my DA on Thursday in a Magister at Old Warden and flew a low level aerobatic display practice last evening at Leicester in our Skybolt. Sheer unadulterated pleasure.
I fear the current risk averse society and ridiculous H&S legislation brings the need to warn of the danger we are exposed to by being alive never mind getting into the sky in a light aircraft.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If the CAA does not get you then EASA must.
Cheers,
Reaper 69
PS - I renewed my DA on Thursday in a Magister at Old Warden and flew a low level aerobatic display practice last evening at Leicester in our Skybolt. Sheer unadulterated pleasure.
Last edited by G-KEST; 18th Apr 2010 at 10:02. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems VFR is now allowed again in France
NUAGE DE CENDRES : Les aéronefs légers à nouveau autorisés en vol, actualité Société : Le Point
but that their website is overloaded and info about the French Aviation authority can only be had through foreign websites such as the FAA
Enjoy!
NUAGE DE CENDRES : Les aéronefs légers à nouveau autorisés en vol, actualité Société : Le Point
but that their website is overloaded and info about the French Aviation authority can only be had through foreign websites such as the FAA
Enjoy!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But I feel it is safest to let it die down completely, because only then will we have any reasonable certainty that it will remain safe.
This is a massive over reaction.
bose-x
I agree, especially for low level flights. Went to Pwk from Reading area and return yesterday, VFR of course. Managed to get up to FL 100 for short time (SE turbo-Prop).
Not a cloud or sniff of ash to be seen.
As for the refusals of S/VFR in the London Zone, it defies logic! No ash, no airlines, no cloud and unlimited vis. Health and Safety gone mad.
Not a cloud or sniff of ash to be seen.
As for the refusals of S/VFR in the London Zone, it defies logic! No ash, no airlines, no cloud and unlimited vis. Health and Safety gone mad.
Last edited by cessnapete; 18th Apr 2010 at 10:44. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-Kest, bad comparison. The ash you're talking about is essentially soot - material that has already been burned and won't burn again easily. And if it burns it burns rather clean.
What comes out of the vulcano now is SiO2, which is very akin to glass. It will not burn, but rather melt under high pressure and temperature, and when it cools down it will form a glass-like layer on the inside of your engine.
It's a totally different kind of animal.
What comes out of the vulcano now is SiO2, which is very akin to glass. It will not burn, but rather melt under high pressure and temperature, and when it cools down it will form a glass-like layer on the inside of your engine.
It's a totally different kind of animal.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And as such, it would be very wise not to be within say 150 miles downwind and 50 miles other directions as it might beltch up a think cloud ... but this cloud needs to disperse, and over a moderately long distance it is going to be the wind (predictable) and diffusion (slow). You are not going to be surprised by a sudden cloud of ash over Surrey!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a stupid lawyer-ish over-reaction. I am sure there is zero risk to any aviation anywhere in Europe - so long as the plume coming out of the volcano is avoided (which is easy; everybody knows where that is).
The amazing thing is that the airspace owners have been able to shut everything down without having evidence of the risk to aircraft and without even making an apparent effort to find out. I reckon they are going to get sued big-time by the airlines. I hope they do get sued.
The amazing thing is that the airspace owners have been able to shut everything down without having evidence of the risk to aircraft and without even making an apparent effort to find out. I reckon they are going to get sued big-time by the airlines. I hope they do get sued.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, but how can you get significant harmful particulates when the horizontal vis is tens of nm?
Oil analysis is done by most higher-end GA owners. I do it too. It's a good tool but I wouldn't say it forecasts imminent component failure - for that you look in the oil filter and if you find 10% of your camshaft in there.... 
oil samples are taken from engines and checked on a regular basis to predict wear and/or imminent component failure. I used it in the FAA on Lynx engines.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: N42° 20' 43" W71° 04' 45"
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Precisely the point made by an NECN reporter this morning, as they were flying within a couple of hundred feet of the Volcano, in a helicopter.
It's more of an insurance issue.. Revenue protection by the insurance companies no doubt.
It's more of an insurance issue.. Revenue protection by the insurance companies no doubt.
IO540 - the problem is, if they get sued, then who pays for it? The taxpayers do. The airspace owners have a blank chequebook of our money, and zero accountability (or, it seems, intelligence).
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dutch airspace now open for VFR. Pirep mandatory.
RAC B)18 APR 2010 13:24 UTC C)18 APR 2010 23:59 EST (A0463/10)
E) DUE TO VOLCANIC ACTIVITY IN ICELAND AND THE RESULTING ASHCLOUDS IN THE AMSTERDAM FIR, ALL CIVIL IFR OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED. VFR FLIGHTS ARE ALLOWED AT OWN DISCRETION. AFTER COMPLETING EACH VFR FLIGHT A PILOT REPORT SHOULD BE FILED IMMEDIATLY TO VULKAAN(AT)KNMI.NL CONTAINING FOLLOWING INFORMATION: ROUTE, ALTITUDE, DATE AND TIME OF FLIGHT IN LOCAL TIME, OBSERVATIONS REGARDING (ASH)CLOUDS. EVEN WHEN NO OBSERVATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE A PILOT REPORT IS MANDATORY. WHEN EMAIL IS NOT AVBL A PILOT REPORT CAN BE MADE TO LOCAL ATC BY RADIO OR AIRPORT AUTHORITY. ALSO, CAA-NL STATES THE PITOT TUBE SHOULD BE CHECKED CAREFULLY BEFORE AND AFTER EACH FLIGHT AND ALSO INCREASED MONITORING OF FLIGHT SPEED AND HEIGHT INDICATION AND WINDSCREEN TRANSPARENCY DURING FLIGHT IN THE RISK AREA. POLICE, SAR AND HEMS FLIGHTS ARE EXEMPTED. SFC/FL245.)
RAC B)18 APR 2010 13:24 UTC C)18 APR 2010 23:59 EST (A0463/10)
E) DUE TO VOLCANIC ACTIVITY IN ICELAND AND THE RESULTING ASHCLOUDS IN THE AMSTERDAM FIR, ALL CIVIL IFR OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED. VFR FLIGHTS ARE ALLOWED AT OWN DISCRETION. AFTER COMPLETING EACH VFR FLIGHT A PILOT REPORT SHOULD BE FILED IMMEDIATLY TO VULKAAN(AT)KNMI.NL CONTAINING FOLLOWING INFORMATION: ROUTE, ALTITUDE, DATE AND TIME OF FLIGHT IN LOCAL TIME, OBSERVATIONS REGARDING (ASH)CLOUDS. EVEN WHEN NO OBSERVATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE A PILOT REPORT IS MANDATORY. WHEN EMAIL IS NOT AVBL A PILOT REPORT CAN BE MADE TO LOCAL ATC BY RADIO OR AIRPORT AUTHORITY. ALSO, CAA-NL STATES THE PITOT TUBE SHOULD BE CHECKED CAREFULLY BEFORE AND AFTER EACH FLIGHT AND ALSO INCREASED MONITORING OF FLIGHT SPEED AND HEIGHT INDICATION AND WINDSCREEN TRANSPARENCY DURING FLIGHT IN THE RISK AREA. POLICE, SAR AND HEMS FLIGHTS ARE EXEMPTED. SFC/FL245.)