Beware of Re Bar on Alderney approach
Join Date: Jul 2004
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The airport authorities probably have a responsibility to make sure that the supports etc for the lights are frangible. Whilst I know it was the American legal system that ruled it (and therefore a mystery to many of us) after the American Airlines crash at Little Rock on the 1st June 1999, the grand jury decided that the deaths of the passengers were down to the stuctures supporting the approach lights and not the fouled up landing of the crew.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I don't get it. How many airfields have big wooden things (aka "trees", as in "woods"), big iron things (aka "pylons" as in "power lines"), big steel things (aka "cars"), big brick/concrete things (aka "buildings" as in "towns"), big water things (aka "lakes" and "rivers"), or big earth things or gaps (aka "ditches" or "dykes") 300 meters from their threshold? All of which can kill you just as easily as these steel rods.
Now if these steel rods were located in the guaranteed clearway that surrounds the runway, there would be an issue here. But 300 meters?
Now if these steel rods were located in the guaranteed clearway that surrounds the runway, there would be an issue here. But 300 meters?
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" know by expirence that PAPPIS light's are flangable because i flatend a set whilst taxiing into low sun" 
"No damage to plane but PAPPI worse for wear"
i learnend from that !
Austerwobbler
"No damage to plane but PAPPI worse for wear"
i learnend from that !
Austerwobbler
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I don't get it. How many airfields have big wooden things (aka "trees", as in "woods"), big iron things (aka "pylons" as in "power lines"), big steel things (aka "cars"), big brick/concrete things (aka "buildings" as in "towns"), big water things (aka "lakes" and "rivers"), or big earth things or gaps (aka "ditches" or "dykes") 300 meters from their threshold? All of which can kill you just as easily as these steel rods.
Now if these steel rods were located in the guaranteed clearway that surrounds the runway, there would be an issue here. But 300 meters?
Now if these steel rods were located in the guaranteed clearway that surrounds the runway, there would be an issue here. But 300 meters?
In the event of an EFATO (for example) if one was to hit a pylon or a building etc. it would, at minimum, be described as an unfortunate accident. However, there were would most likely be some scrutiny as to the location of said hazard in the ensuing investigation, especially if the location of the hazard, prevailing winds etc. resulted in a distressed aircraft impact and a loss of life to follow. Therefore I would consider it entirely reckless on the part of whoever erected this mess, the landowner whose property it lies on, the airport authority as well as the authority whose jurisdiction the airport falls within.
As a pilot, private or otherwise, I expect that an airfield which is licensed for operations and is charging me for the use of their facilities to make sure that the conduct of my flight is safe.(I am aware the responsibility for the safe conduct of my flight ultimately lies with me alone, I do not believe this absolves the authority for taking all reasonable action to ensure ALL operations are conducted safely, and consideration should be given to emergency situations also)
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Ryan, if you don't like 300 meters, how would you then define the influence sphere of an airport? Can you reasonably expect that all fences in a circle 1000 meters surrounding the airport, or 2000 meter underneath the approach path, or even worse, are scrutinized by the airport H&S folks? Just for the very unlikely eventuality that an aircraft ends up there in an emergency?
As far as I'm concerned the aviation authorities, whoever that may be, need to be informed about things along the lines of:
- Any structure extending above 300' AGL
- Any structure that extends into an ILS/approach area
- Any structure within the clearway that surrounds the runways and taxiways
And of course if any of these structures cause a safety concern, they should have a say about their construction, frangibility, ICAO markings/lighting and so forth.
But outside of those areas, as far as I'm concerned, there are no guarantees to any aircraft about clearances, frangibility, markings or whatever. If your aircraft ends up there, you might hit anything. Whether that's a fence post, something made out of concrete or metal or anything else. And yes, a lot of the things that can be found there can kill you if you hit it at speed. We can't make the whole world frangible.
And of course this works both ways. The bigger the sphere of influence of an airport about fencing construction and such, the more people the airport needs to employ to advise about, and regulate these kinds of building activities. Do we really want to pay for that? 'Cause the farmer sure doesn't.
(And given the size and population of the Channel Islands, how big is the Aviation Authority over there really?)
As far as I'm concerned the aviation authorities, whoever that may be, need to be informed about things along the lines of:
- Any structure extending above 300' AGL
- Any structure that extends into an ILS/approach area
- Any structure within the clearway that surrounds the runways and taxiways
And of course if any of these structures cause a safety concern, they should have a say about their construction, frangibility, ICAO markings/lighting and so forth.
But outside of those areas, as far as I'm concerned, there are no guarantees to any aircraft about clearances, frangibility, markings or whatever. If your aircraft ends up there, you might hit anything. Whether that's a fence post, something made out of concrete or metal or anything else. And yes, a lot of the things that can be found there can kill you if you hit it at speed. We can't make the whole world frangible.
And of course this works both ways. The bigger the sphere of influence of an airport about fencing construction and such, the more people the airport needs to employ to advise about, and regulate these kinds of building activities. Do we really want to pay for that? 'Cause the farmer sure doesn't.
(And given the size and population of the Channel Islands, how big is the Aviation Authority over there really?)
As a pilot, private or otherwise, I expect that an airfield which is licensed for operations and is charging me for the use of their facilities to make sure that the conduct of my flight is safe.
Join Date: May 2001
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Well these bars are located on the Approach light system, an area frequently transited over by aeroplanes at low altitude
so they could minimise risk by using different supports or turning them 90 deg so that if the unfortunate happened it didn't end up staking the occupants...which these look very likely to do.
so they could minimise risk by using different supports or turning them 90 deg so that if the unfortunate happened it didn't end up staking the occupants...which these look very likely to do.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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That much aligned ferris metal might also have an effect on the landing aids.
Join Date: May 2001
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Aye true enough half a ton of metal is not going to make the slightest bit of difference when you take all the other factors into account.
I always wondered what would happen on bad wx days if someone turned it off on the sly. My sneaky suspision would be that everything would continue to land as usual. Put a GPS jammer on the rock and all hell would let loose.
I always wondered what would happen on bad wx days if someone turned it off on the sly. My sneaky suspision would be that everything would continue to land as usual. Put a GPS jammer on the rock and all hell would let loose.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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The Guernsey (including Alderney) / Jersey Director of Civil Aviation (DCA) is investigating with the airport authorities.
It's also worth pointing out that in both Guernsey (including Alderney) and Jersey that the DCA apply local aviation laws to ensure full compliance with ICAO standards as detailed through UK CAP 168 for aerodromes.
It's also worth pointing out that in both Guernsey (including Alderney) and Jersey that the DCA apply local aviation laws to ensure full compliance with ICAO standards as detailed through UK CAP 168 for aerodromes.
