Advice Pls: Syndicate Woes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Inside CAS
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Advice Pls: Syndicate Woes
Hi all,
The group I am a member has an issue or two, and I'm curious to hear how others would regard the issues and perhaps can offer suggestions on how to improve the situation.
In brief the issues are:
The treasurer has become for sometime now unresponsive to any form of contact from members of the group. Most emails to him are ignored. No one knows where they are in terms of their financial relationship with the group. Emails form other members offering to do the financial admin go ignored. Flying bills are not being sent out to members (for months now).
Only 1, possibly 2, members of 6 are actually flying the aircraft (other than myself)...not a problem in itself, but does indicate the lack of engagement in general. No trip sharing takes place.
I am considering suspending my monthly payments until I know what's happening wrt finances (especially as I have learnt others in the group have) but don't want to compound the problem.
Suggestions to arrange a meeting are agreed with, but nothing ever actually happens. At least 1/3 of the group are not likely to attend based on the very few previous meetings.
Is this a common scenario across PPL syndicates? I find it hard to understand this "passive" (at best) approach to owning and operating an expensive bit of kit.
Thoughts?
The group I am a member has an issue or two, and I'm curious to hear how others would regard the issues and perhaps can offer suggestions on how to improve the situation.
In brief the issues are:
The treasurer has become for sometime now unresponsive to any form of contact from members of the group. Most emails to him are ignored. No one knows where they are in terms of their financial relationship with the group. Emails form other members offering to do the financial admin go ignored. Flying bills are not being sent out to members (for months now).
Only 1, possibly 2, members of 6 are actually flying the aircraft (other than myself)...not a problem in itself, but does indicate the lack of engagement in general. No trip sharing takes place.
I am considering suspending my monthly payments until I know what's happening wrt finances (especially as I have learnt others in the group have) but don't want to compound the problem.
Suggestions to arrange a meeting are agreed with, but nothing ever actually happens. At least 1/3 of the group are not likely to attend based on the very few previous meetings.
Is this a common scenario across PPL syndicates? I find it hard to understand this "passive" (at best) approach to owning and operating an expensive bit of kit.
Thoughts?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not a million miles from EGTF
Age: 68
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not an unknown situation in a syndicate, unfortunately.
2 thoughts
From what you say it looks like your income is not healthy and neither does the group sound fully engaged.
Secondly, I'd question whether or not the Treasurer is not feeling some serious pressure and can't handle it. Been there and got the tee-shirt....
If members have stopped paying, all that will do is put even more pressure on the Treasurer.
Assuming that he is not a crook, and there are some about, it sounds like he needs some help and not criticism. Don't use email - phone him or go round and see him.
Groups are voluntary entities and not companies. The work involved in acting as Treasurer is normally unpaid and, frankly, is a thankless task.
You need to act in your own best interest but get the information first before deciding your way forward.
When I was the treasurer I found it impossible to handle getting money out of reluctant members. It almost gave me a nervous breakdown.
2 thoughts
From what you say it looks like your income is not healthy and neither does the group sound fully engaged.
Secondly, I'd question whether or not the Treasurer is not feeling some serious pressure and can't handle it. Been there and got the tee-shirt....
If members have stopped paying, all that will do is put even more pressure on the Treasurer.
Assuming that he is not a crook, and there are some about, it sounds like he needs some help and not criticism. Don't use email - phone him or go round and see him.
Groups are voluntary entities and not companies. The work involved in acting as Treasurer is normally unpaid and, frankly, is a thankless task.
You need to act in your own best interest but get the information first before deciding your way forward.
When I was the treasurer I found it impossible to handle getting money out of reluctant members. It almost gave me a nervous breakdown.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ISTM that the majority of syndicates are organisationally disfunctional.
They seem to be eager to take in new members (presumably, to replace disgruntled former ones) and the worms come out as soon as the newcomer starts to fly.
Unless the plane is something exceptional, I would start looking at Plan B (whatever that might be).
They seem to be eager to take in new members (presumably, to replace disgruntled former ones) and the worms come out as soon as the newcomer starts to fly.
Unless the plane is something exceptional, I would start looking at Plan B (whatever that might be).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Inside CAS
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting.
As yet, all legal and regulatory requirements are being met. It's literally the lack of engagement, communication, and general interest being shown by members of the group which I struggle to understand.
Someone I met once told me of the "Dinner Party" syndicate syndrome. It describes syndicates PPLs who just like saying they are a pilot, and own an aeroplane, at dinner parties, but don't bother or aren't willing to use it.
Beginning to wonder if that explains it....
As yet, all legal and regulatory requirements are being met. It's literally the lack of engagement, communication, and general interest being shown by members of the group which I struggle to understand.
Someone I met once told me of the "Dinner Party" syndicate syndrome. It describes syndicates PPLs who just like saying they are a pilot, and own an aeroplane, at dinner parties, but don't bother or aren't willing to use it.
Beginning to wonder if that explains it....
One of the most difficult things to do is set up 'friendly' syndicates in a really business like manner. One of the things that hit us hard when we came to Canada was the savage way facilities were withdrawn or charges added if accounts were not settled promptly, especially with stratas etc, ( a sort of legal co-op for property.) Over the years it seems to have softened up considerably but there are still bills that we have to be very careful to pay on time.
If the syndicate does not make a big deal about collecting the very first time a member is late then the whole thing will 'go to pot' in short order. The problem is the 'voluntary' treasurer is hardly going to go round 'collecting' or issuing proceedings and if they do you are going to have problems getting members.
Maybe it is time for some creative thinking.
Many years ago one of my kids went to a private school where they badly needed to add a new wing. Income was excellent but local banks were not willing to offer credit on a school as if anything went wrong there were unlikely to be other organisations willing to take on a large property with very restricted zoning in a residential area.
Cue a couple of creative governors. They asked each parent to stand surety for $2,000. The bank was willing to offer each parent a $2,000 loan unsecured in the event to school failed but in the meantime loaned the school half the needed on the security of the property and the other half on the parents promise. The school paid off the loan early and within four years was expanding again.
How about:
Each participant borrows a year's fixed payments from their bank and puts it in a personal account from which only the (automatic) payments can be made. The bank then collects monthly from the owner's personal account (the day after salary day, of course. Banks always collect more ruthlessly than voluntary treasurers and it removes that anxiety completely.)
You set up a collection account that can accept payment on line. Flying payments must be made electronically within three days or they collect BIG interest. No flying until the previous payment is made (Very swinging penalty if not.) That way you can never be more than one flight behind.
Maybe creative ideas for administering a syndicate might make a very good thread in itself.
If the syndicate does not make a big deal about collecting the very first time a member is late then the whole thing will 'go to pot' in short order. The problem is the 'voluntary' treasurer is hardly going to go round 'collecting' or issuing proceedings and if they do you are going to have problems getting members.
Maybe it is time for some creative thinking.
Many years ago one of my kids went to a private school where they badly needed to add a new wing. Income was excellent but local banks were not willing to offer credit on a school as if anything went wrong there were unlikely to be other organisations willing to take on a large property with very restricted zoning in a residential area.
Cue a couple of creative governors. They asked each parent to stand surety for $2,000. The bank was willing to offer each parent a $2,000 loan unsecured in the event to school failed but in the meantime loaned the school half the needed on the security of the property and the other half on the parents promise. The school paid off the loan early and within four years was expanding again.
How about:
Each participant borrows a year's fixed payments from their bank and puts it in a personal account from which only the (automatic) payments can be made. The bank then collects monthly from the owner's personal account (the day after salary day, of course. Banks always collect more ruthlessly than voluntary treasurers and it removes that anxiety completely.)
You set up a collection account that can accept payment on line. Flying payments must be made electronically within three days or they collect BIG interest. No flying until the previous payment is made (Very swinging penalty if not.) That way you can never be more than one flight behind.
Maybe creative ideas for administering a syndicate might make a very good thread in itself.
"Groups are voluntary entities and not companies."
Questions about running syndicates crop up regularly and my advice from having been in a couple is set them up as a limited company. Each syndicate member has a share in the company rather than a share in the aircraft. This gives you more protection and has certain obligations to the directors.
One day, one of our sydicate members went bankrupt and the baliffs turned up at the airfield to impound 'his' aircraft. As he only owned one share with a nominal value of one pound, the baliffs realsied it wasn't worth their while to do so. And the company articles stated that any share owner had to have a current PPL with 100hrs P1, so their option of making any money from it was minimal.
It's worth considering in any re-organisation of your syndicate. And I suggest this is overdue!
Questions about running syndicates crop up regularly and my advice from having been in a couple is set them up as a limited company. Each syndicate member has a share in the company rather than a share in the aircraft. This gives you more protection and has certain obligations to the directors.
One day, one of our sydicate members went bankrupt and the baliffs turned up at the airfield to impound 'his' aircraft. As he only owned one share with a nominal value of one pound, the baliffs realsied it wasn't worth their while to do so. And the company articles stated that any share owner had to have a current PPL with 100hrs P1, so their option of making any money from it was minimal.
It's worth considering in any re-organisation of your syndicate. And I suggest this is overdue!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying payments must be made electronically within three days or they collect BIG interest. No flying until the previous payment is made (Very swinging penalty if not.) That way you can never be more than one flight behind.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The thing is that no matter how you organise it legally, if the members couldn't care less then it isn't going to work.
But surely they are paying £XX/month? Seems a waste of money.
The bottom line is: is the plane any good; if so, fly it and enjoy the others' lack of interest, in the form of increased access to you. You have found the perfect syndicate
Someone I met once told me of the "Dinner Party" syndicate syndrome. It describes syndicates PPLs who just like saying they are a pilot, and own an aeroplane, at dinner parties, but don't bother or aren't willing to use it.
The bottom line is: is the plane any good; if so, fly it and enjoy the others' lack of interest, in the form of increased access to you. You have found the perfect syndicate
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not a million miles from EGTF
Age: 68
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We looked at setting the group up as a company, but the work involved was considered not worth the effort.
Our group have a number of members and some are definitely of the 'dinner party' type. They fly rarely, most pay up on time and some even turn up for work parties.
Others seem to treat the group aircraft as a flying club machine. Rarely help out, leave the aircraft unfuelled and cause most of the problems.
The reason that some don't fly is difficult to judge. Certainly the current environment means we're all flying less. One of our group walked away at the last annual as he wasn't able to pay his contribution to the group's bill.
That was particularly upsetting as he'd had a year's flying, adding to the need for maintenance, but then when the bills came in, ratted on the rest of us.
He's now looking around for another (this time, non-equity) group to join.
In my view the real issue is the number of parasites in groups. You really need to interview new members and get advice from others to see if there is a reason why they should ought not to be allowed to join.
Similarly, as a potential new member you need to get a feel for how the group is run.
We all go into groups rather like we approach a new girlfriend - you don't go looking for flaws. You need to be a little more circumspect and cautious.
Finally, you also need to look at the group's arrangements for getting out and for resolving disputes.
Once you have them inside, they can break a good group quite quickly. So
Our group have a number of members and some are definitely of the 'dinner party' type. They fly rarely, most pay up on time and some even turn up for work parties.
Others seem to treat the group aircraft as a flying club machine. Rarely help out, leave the aircraft unfuelled and cause most of the problems.
The reason that some don't fly is difficult to judge. Certainly the current environment means we're all flying less. One of our group walked away at the last annual as he wasn't able to pay his contribution to the group's bill.
That was particularly upsetting as he'd had a year's flying, adding to the need for maintenance, but then when the bills came in, ratted on the rest of us.
He's now looking around for another (this time, non-equity) group to join.
In my view the real issue is the number of parasites in groups. You really need to interview new members and get advice from others to see if there is a reason why they should ought not to be allowed to join.
Similarly, as a potential new member you need to get a feel for how the group is run.
We all go into groups rather like we approach a new girlfriend - you don't go looking for flaws. You need to be a little more circumspect and cautious.
Finally, you also need to look at the group's arrangements for getting out and for resolving disputes.
Once you have them inside, they can break a good group quite quickly. So
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Inside CAS
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is good. Thanks all.
Problem with any idea, is that you need consensus to implement it - which in itself requires involvement. Catch-22!
IO540: You are correct, it is the perfect syndicate in terms of aircraft availability - but if the bills can't be met due to lack of treasure the aircraft will be available for looking at only! Which I suspect is on the horizon, as it is emerging that not all monthlies are being paid.
Maybe my expectations are too high. Maybe with the better weather everyone will come out of hibernation. Maybe, maybe...
Problem with any idea, is that you need consensus to implement it - which in itself requires involvement. Catch-22!
IO540: You are correct, it is the perfect syndicate in terms of aircraft availability - but if the bills can't be met due to lack of treasure the aircraft will be available for looking at only! Which I suspect is on the horizon, as it is emerging that not all monthlies are being paid.
Maybe my expectations are too high. Maybe with the better weather everyone will come out of hibernation. Maybe, maybe...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the ultimate case you could start legal action against the treasurer to release his documentation to the rest of the group. Then either clean up the mess yourself, or hire someone to do it.
If I were in a group like this, where I'd have a capital interest in the plane directly, rather than through a company, I would insist the treasurer puts copies of his administration online somehow. At least the financial sheets. That way you can react quickly if the treasurer is somehow falling behind.
I don't know how this works in the UK, but in the Netherlands there are some specific steps you need to go through in a club-type environment (which a group really is) to get the treasurer to release his documents and/or resign from the position.
First, unless you're in the board yourself, you don't have the right to call an all-hands meeting yourself. You have to have a certain % or number of signatures on a petition to ask the board to call an all-hands meeting. If the board then doesn't call the meeting within a certain timeframe, you can officially call the meeting yourself. In the invite you should mention clearly what the agenda is, and any motions you'd like to discuss.
The meeting itself then needs to have a % of the members present for certain types of votes to be legal - such as forcing a board member to resign. If that % is not present, a second meeting should be called. In that second meeting, there is no minimum presence required. The votes of the members that are present are enough, even if you're alone.
With the transcript of this meeting and all the communication leading up to this you can go through the legal system to get the treasurers documents, if necessary by court order. If the treasurer then still withholds or destroys the documents, he can even go to jail over that.
But, yes, this is a rather involved sequence of events which may easily take six weeks or so in total. It's probably easier to go round his house and have a cup of coffee to discuss things.
The other thing you'd might like to know is that even if you set up a limited-liability group or company, individual board members can still be held responsible (and thus sued for their estate, if necessary) in case of gross negligence. So if the treasurer on the one hand has become totally unresponsive but on the other hand is also not cooperating with the transfer of his duties to somebody else, and the treasurer "forgets" to pay the insurance and somebody prangs the aircraft, the treasurer is in deep water on his own.
Again, not a situation you'd really want to be in, but it might be useful in your discussion with the treasurer.
One word of warning. I've seen similar situations at other clubs, where relatively poor people are treasurer of a group (sports clubs in my case) which is relatively rich. It is too tempting to borrow money from the group for some personal expenses, and then later pay it back - usually nobody will notice. Until the payback can't be done in time, at which point in time the treasurer panics, starts plugging one hole with another, and becomes generally unresponsive to even the most direct forms of contact. If you let a situation like this develop, it'll go from bad to worse and the group as a whole might be tens of thousands of pounds poorer, with no ability to get that money back. So do NOT wait until everybody but your treasurer comes out of hibernation, because that's just going to make it worse.
If I were in a group like this, where I'd have a capital interest in the plane directly, rather than through a company, I would insist the treasurer puts copies of his administration online somehow. At least the financial sheets. That way you can react quickly if the treasurer is somehow falling behind.
The treasurer has become for sometime now unresponsive to any form of contact from members of the group. Most emails to him are ignored. No one knows where they are in terms of their financial relationship with the group. Emails form other members offering to do the financial admin go ignored. Flying bills are not being sent out to members (for months now).
First, unless you're in the board yourself, you don't have the right to call an all-hands meeting yourself. You have to have a certain % or number of signatures on a petition to ask the board to call an all-hands meeting. If the board then doesn't call the meeting within a certain timeframe, you can officially call the meeting yourself. In the invite you should mention clearly what the agenda is, and any motions you'd like to discuss.
The meeting itself then needs to have a % of the members present for certain types of votes to be legal - such as forcing a board member to resign. If that % is not present, a second meeting should be called. In that second meeting, there is no minimum presence required. The votes of the members that are present are enough, even if you're alone.
With the transcript of this meeting and all the communication leading up to this you can go through the legal system to get the treasurers documents, if necessary by court order. If the treasurer then still withholds or destroys the documents, he can even go to jail over that.
But, yes, this is a rather involved sequence of events which may easily take six weeks or so in total. It's probably easier to go round his house and have a cup of coffee to discuss things.
The other thing you'd might like to know is that even if you set up a limited-liability group or company, individual board members can still be held responsible (and thus sued for their estate, if necessary) in case of gross negligence. So if the treasurer on the one hand has become totally unresponsive but on the other hand is also not cooperating with the transfer of his duties to somebody else, and the treasurer "forgets" to pay the insurance and somebody prangs the aircraft, the treasurer is in deep water on his own.
Again, not a situation you'd really want to be in, but it might be useful in your discussion with the treasurer.
Maybe my expectations are too high. Maybe with the better weather everyone will come out of hibernation. Maybe, maybe...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think syndicates work OK at two levels:
1) a very small one comprising of a few good friends
2) a very big one comprising of say 30 very low budget pilots and this type of syndicate will have somebody running it and looking after everything
In between the two, with say 8 members, it seems to be persistently difficult.
The big ones have plenty of money and if somebody trashes the plane, they just get another one.
1) a very small one comprising of a few good friends
2) a very big one comprising of say 30 very low budget pilots and this type of syndicate will have somebody running it and looking after everything
In between the two, with say 8 members, it seems to be persistently difficult.
The big ones have plenty of money and if somebody trashes the plane, they just get another one.
In the UK, twenty is the maximum allowed. In my experience, four is good. Six - the maximum. Any more than that, things get complex. And when taking on new members, you have to chose them vey carefully.
You can set up a company in a couple of hours for about three hundred quid. There are organisations which will do all the paperwork and register them with Companies House.
You can set up a company in a couple of hours for about three hundred quid. There are organisations which will do all the paperwork and register them with Companies House.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norfolk UK
Age: 80
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We've got 14 equal shareholders in our group,probably two or three includung me fly regularly,two or three not much and several rarely and some never.
We don't have a monthly charge,just an all in flying hour charge and an annual meeting where we agree an annual sub,usually in the low hundreds.
I have recently taken over as Trustee/treasurer and we have an "engineering member" who looks after getting neccessary work done by qualified engineers.
The previous trustee/treasurer ran the group for 10 years without any probs,and I hope to do the same.
We run the web based e-allocator booking/message service.
We make big decisions by consensus,small every day decisions me and the engineer chap,but always let everyone know what we are doing.#
We just don't have any problems,some are high hours pilots,some ex commercial others like me quite low,160ish.
We all rub along together,and do have a couple of lawyers in the group if we ever need legal advice,but as far as I know this has never been needed in anger.
Lister
We don't have a monthly charge,just an all in flying hour charge and an annual meeting where we agree an annual sub,usually in the low hundreds.
I have recently taken over as Trustee/treasurer and we have an "engineering member" who looks after getting neccessary work done by qualified engineers.
The previous trustee/treasurer ran the group for 10 years without any probs,and I hope to do the same.
We run the web based e-allocator booking/message service.
We make big decisions by consensus,small every day decisions me and the engineer chap,but always let everyone know what we are doing.#
We just don't have any problems,some are high hours pilots,some ex commercial others like me quite low,160ish.
We all rub along together,and do have a couple of lawyers in the group if we ever need legal advice,but as far as I know this has never been needed in anger.
Lister
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Age: 74
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XX621
What you describe is not unusual but I see some opportunities for you. I was a founder of a group some years ago and because of my enthusiasm I was left to "run" the group, despite encouraging others to get involved. This I was happy to do and enjoyed over a decade of group flying. I formed a limited company, similar to a former group I had known, which gave all concerned reassurance that proper accounts were being carried out. There is little additional work over that of a "loose" syndicate of individuals but you will have to have an annual audit carried out. No bad thing IMHO. And the aeroplane is owned by the company, which has shareholders (pilots).
Incentives were involved that gave discounts to members who paid "up front" for their flying. Members could pay for their expected annual flying hours in twelve monthly payments together with their monthly subscription. This helped me as treasurer greatly with having money in the bank for the needs of the group/aircraft. Any credit at the end of the year could be carried over or reimbursed.
If your group is in the doldrums you may be able to pay off those who would readily leave, maybe with the help of like minded members. Also the members who are no longer "current" may well be happy to be bought out. In effect, you should endeavour to acquire the aeroplane at a favourable price. Then you can build the group you would prefer. Go and visit the treasurer and have a (hopefully) friendly chat before deciding on your next move. Good Luck
WR
Incentives were involved that gave discounts to members who paid "up front" for their flying. Members could pay for their expected annual flying hours in twelve monthly payments together with their monthly subscription. This helped me as treasurer greatly with having money in the bank for the needs of the group/aircraft. Any credit at the end of the year could be carried over or reimbursed.
If your group is in the doldrums you may be able to pay off those who would readily leave, maybe with the help of like minded members. Also the members who are no longer "current" may well be happy to be bought out. In effect, you should endeavour to acquire the aeroplane at a favourable price. Then you can build the group you would prefer. Go and visit the treasurer and have a (hopefully) friendly chat before deciding on your next move. Good Luck
WR
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is your relationship with the treasurer? How many are in the group? Why not just phone him, perhaps he has been told he has cancer or something which I guess would take priority over the group. Someone needs to talk to him because for all you know the aeroplane may not be airworthy.
We have a group of 6, but 4 rarely fly because most of us have other aeroplanes too. This is fantastic for the two of us that do fly as we have our own aeroplane subsidised by the others. However the others take an active part in the group and if we need something, everyone helps out. Two are incredibly competent engineers who have built their own aeroplanes, so something mechanical breaks, they fix it (under supervision of a licensed engineer of course
). The other is a dentist and can do really intricate repairs to stuff like plastic, and makes the plane look nice, one does the books, and I do the electronic stuff like take care of the GPS updates....and I also wash and clean The two of us that fly regularly nearly always fly together, and have some interesting adventures. None of us knew each other before we joined the group but are now friends and can easily share a beer or two....(or maybe 8!).....so groups can work...
We have a group of 6, but 4 rarely fly because most of us have other aeroplanes too. This is fantastic for the two of us that do fly as we have our own aeroplane subsidised by the others. However the others take an active part in the group and if we need something, everyone helps out. Two are incredibly competent engineers who have built their own aeroplanes, so something mechanical breaks, they fix it (under supervision of a licensed engineer of course
). The other is a dentist and can do really intricate repairs to stuff like plastic, and makes the plane look nice, one does the books, and I do the electronic stuff like take care of the GPS updates....and I also wash and clean The two of us that fly regularly nearly always fly together, and have some interesting adventures. None of us knew each other before we joined the group but are now friends and can easily share a beer or two....(or maybe 8!).....so groups can work...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect if you ring him or go and see him in person, and do not go at him in an aggressive way you will sort this out quite easily. I have extensive experience of being in groups and forming groups and there are a few things, which can make it life hassle.
All monthly charges are paid by DD.
The monthly charge includes 15 hours flying time (over the year)
All share sales go through the group account with outstanding amounts taken out of the share value by the treasurer
Any significant defaulters have their share sold and the outstanding amount taken out of the lump sum.
I have been in groups ranging from 12 people to two and all but one ran very well with limited problems. A big group will generate big maintenance bills, but spilt over more people. A small group with careful owners can operate with very low maintenance bills. An LAA machine shared between 4 or 5 people can be very cost effective with costs as low as £40 a month and £35 per hour for a £3k investment and very low financial risk.
Rod1
All monthly charges are paid by DD.
The monthly charge includes 15 hours flying time (over the year)
All share sales go through the group account with outstanding amounts taken out of the share value by the treasurer
Any significant defaulters have their share sold and the outstanding amount taken out of the lump sum.
I have been in groups ranging from 12 people to two and all but one ran very well with limited problems. A big group will generate big maintenance bills, but spilt over more people. A small group with careful owners can operate with very low maintenance bills. An LAA machine shared between 4 or 5 people can be very cost effective with costs as low as £40 a month and £35 per hour for a £3k investment and very low financial risk.
Rod1
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the UK, twenty is the maximum allowed
Also if there is "zero equity" involved then the plane needs to be maintained to Transport standard.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And when taking on new members, you have to chose them vey carefully