If you were lost would you say so??
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If you were lost would you say so??
Congratulations to the student that told me on Scottish Info today he was lost..
Flying close and approaching controlled airspace he advised me he was lost. With the aid of the FIR Lost squawk and some useful vectors provided to me from D and D we soon got him back on track and a safe landing at his planed airfield non the worse for wear 
This was a succesful outcome because the student had the sense to advise me as soon as he realised all was not well.......well done to him and I hope it has not affected his confidence too much!!
Flying close and approaching controlled airspace he advised me he was lost. With the aid of the FIR Lost squawk and some useful vectors provided to me from D and D we soon got him back on track and a safe landing at his planed airfield non the worse for wear This was a succesful outcome because the student had the sense to advise me as soon as he realised all was not well.......well done to him and I hope it has not affected his confidence too much!!
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Excellent and well done to you for publishing this on here-we need more aviation professionals that understand that students and low hour pilots need encouragement and help not just criticism.
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I recently found out that if you simply tell Scottish or London info that you are lost, they are happy to give you a bearing to your destination airfield. A flight instructor showed me. Its nice to know that they are there for you if need be.. Luckily i havnt needed this service
I dont think enough people realise this and i think it should be explained prior to a first solo x country flight.
I dont think enough people realise this and i think it should be explained prior to a first solo x country flight.
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I was made to do a practice pan call for the situation of being lost to london. I wont lie, I can't remember the correct method of making the call, but it made me confident enough to be in a situation now where now, I wouldn't be scared of simply telling ATC that I'm lost in plain words and letting them help me.
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Useful exercise – get deliberately lost.
Position yourself well away from CAS. Over the middle of Wales works, but the location has to be sensible.
Switch off your nav aids and do not look at any ground features or the compass for 10 min.
Apply the circle of uncertainty and try to get un lost
If you have not found yourself for the length of time it would take you to reach CAS less 20 min (from the known point at the start of the exercise), turn everything on and ask for help if needed.
This is surprisingly good fun and can be very hard if the vis is not too good.
Having “found” yourself, diverting to the nearest airfield without the tec on is also quite useful.
Rod1
PS I have not done this for some time and intend to do so soon.
Position yourself well away from CAS. Over the middle of Wales works, but the location has to be sensible.
Switch off your nav aids and do not look at any ground features or the compass for 10 min.
Apply the circle of uncertainty and try to get un lost
If you have not found yourself for the length of time it would take you to reach CAS less 20 min (from the known point at the start of the exercise), turn everything on and ask for help if needed.
This is surprisingly good fun and can be very hard if the vis is not too good.
Having “found” yourself, diverting to the nearest airfield without the tec on is also quite useful.
Rod1
PS I have not done this for some time and intend to do so soon.
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Congratulations indeed! That will be a lasting lesson and one which will help keep him on the road towards a safe and successful flight future. I do so wish that many others would follow suit, so many incidents can be avoided by opening yer gob and admitting you need help, at the right time. 
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Yes indeed...what impressed me most was that on an early solo navex knowing he was lost it may have been easy to keep quiet and try and sort things out and save face....in doing so he would probably got even more lost and busted controlled airspace.........not worrying what people would think he asked for help so in my view should be comended for that...well done I spoke to one of the clubs instructors at his destination once he had landed and let him know that the student had indeed done all the correct things and in doing so never caused ATC any hassle......dont forget thats what were here for so if you need help please please jusr ask
I spoke to one of the clubs instructors at his destination once he had landed and let him know that the student had indeed done all the correct things and in doing so never caused ATC any hassle......dont forget thats what were here for so if you need help please please jusr ask
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When I was instructing at Oxford some years ago we would do a Practice Practice Pan as a matter of course before allowing students solo out of the circuit, so that they would have no worrries about asking for help if they needed it.
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Few more months and you can find out what it feels like fisbangwallop 
For posters that haven't picked up on the fact, FIS is threatening to get a NPPL this summer.
So I want everyone to nag him to start getting his exams out of the way.
For posters that haven't picked up on the fact, FIS is threatening to get a NPPL this summer.
So I want everyone to nag him to start getting his exams out of the way.
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and the great thing about GPS/RNAV is that it can be used for all flight, VFR and IFR, whereas the map reading method works only if
- VMC, and
- not much haze, and
- you fly over a feature-rich landscape
- you have chosen clear unambiguous waypoints, and
- your stopwatch is always wound up and restarted correctly, and
- you don't deviate from the planned route (things get a lot more involved if you do)
etc...
In 9 years and 1100+hrs I have never been lost or even uncertain of position, for a moment. Something must be working, because despite living in the countryside I still cannot tell one sheep down below from the next one
- VMC, and
- not much haze, and
- you fly over a feature-rich landscape
- you have chosen clear unambiguous waypoints, and
- your stopwatch is always wound up and restarted correctly, and
- you don't deviate from the planned route (things get a lot more involved if you do)
etc...
In 9 years and 1100+hrs I have never been lost or even uncertain of position, for a moment. Something must be working, because despite living in the countryside I still cannot tell one sheep down below from the next one
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There are a few hundred of them in the field right next to my house, and IMHO, looking at them from here, it would take a lot more than a few drinks.
Maybe on a Monday night.........
here
Maybe on a Monday night.........
here
Last edited by IO540; 12th Mar 2010 at 12:46.
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A good story, and perhaps a lesson for us all to learn. It is sometimes hard to swallow pride and risk embarrassment but it pays off.
We've all been "temporarily unaware of position" at some point, easily done especially using dead reckoning/landmarks if you've misjudged the wind or it's a bit off forecast, distractions etc., and it's scary if you are close to CAS, but good on the student for not being afraid to call for help when needed, and to FBW for his help.
Smithy
We've all been "temporarily unaware of position" at some point, easily done especially using dead reckoning/landmarks if you've misjudged the wind or it's a bit off forecast, distractions etc., and it's scary if you are close to CAS, but good on the student for not being afraid to call for help when needed, and to FBW for his help.
Smithy