Kidlington now "London Oxford"
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's face it guys, the ONLY reason that any airport would align itself with London is because they have started to adopt delusions of grandeur. With delusions of grandeur comes the “need” to get rid of GA, the small aircraft (you and me) as that’s not very grand! How to get rid of these…easy…up the prices and keep doing so until they leave of their own accord… sorted! Now they’re in a good position to grab some airspace just like Norwich Airport is now trying to do.
The problem with this is just what happened at a West Country airport years ago, when the carriers started to pull out in favour of another airport. Lots of staff and not much work anymore. Redundancies, embarrassing questions and egg on faces of the suits…quick, start to get the GA boys back again!
Why can’t the management of small airports just recognise that big is NOT beautiful anymore in air travel? Small regional’s are exactly what people want these days because they can enjoy less hassle at the check in, sail through the security checks and enjoy peace and quiet whilst they wait for their flight.
The problem with this is just what happened at a West Country airport years ago, when the carriers started to pull out in favour of another airport. Lots of staff and not much work anymore. Redundancies, embarrassing questions and egg on faces of the suits…quick, start to get the GA boys back again!
Why can’t the management of small airports just recognise that big is NOT beautiful anymore in air travel? Small regional’s are exactly what people want these days because they can enjoy less hassle at the check in, sail through the security checks and enjoy peace and quiet whilst they wait for their flight.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Inverness-shire
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are as usual at least two sides to the argument. We have the bizjet drivers etc who use Kidlington saying "controlled airspace for London Oxford would be good" and the passing GA saying "more controlled airspace in that area represents more squeeze on the class G which will further concentrate the FIR traffic and increase the collision risk"
And there's the "grab as much airspace as possible to increase the chance of us getting more traffic sometime" school of airport management (viz Doncaster & now Norwich)
As this is the "private flying" forum and I also have a personal axe to grind re open airspace to meander around in Oxfordshire, I remain of the "here comes another plot to seize airspace unnecessarily at the expense of light GA" viewpoint
And there's the "grab as much airspace as possible to increase the chance of us getting more traffic sometime" school of airport management (viz Doncaster & now Norwich)
As this is the "private flying" forum and I also have a personal axe to grind re open airspace to meander around in Oxfordshire, I remain of the "here comes another plot to seize airspace unnecessarily at the expense of light GA" viewpoint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK head into the lions mouths;
I am a corporate pilot based at EGTK, I also fly in in my weekend toy. EGTK is very GA friendly and can provide a useful learning experience for inexperienced aviators as there are now a large number of mid-sized business jets as well as the flyings school and the old OATS.
Movements are no-where near the amount in the mid '80s when there would be seven in the circuit, ten joining and five in the hold (thank christ) Oxford then was second to LHR in annual movements, mostly PA28s and PA31s, Now there is a greater variety, and less overall movements.
On thing I would beg for though, if you are going to transit north about please give Approach (125.325) a call. On a grovelly weekend the TCAS warnings on approach can be a real worry. A lot of pilots are transiting through the instrument approach without calling ATC, who with no radar can't give traffic advice to aircraft flying the procedure, often their first knowledge of a transit is when we call a TCAS contact, on one Saturday last summer I completed the base turn to find 7 TCAS contacts, none of whom were talking to Oxford. I detest the phrase "airspace grab", but I can see a time when EGTK will get CAS so that protection can be applied for IFR approaches. Helping ATC and other pilots with a simple call may help keep CAS at bay. EGTK will get radar, but it is not scheduled for another 2 years, so the cheap option is CAS. If all pilots used the superb service from Oxford on their way past then maybe CAS could be avoided.
I met one chap recently who made that north about transit several times a month, his attitude was "why should I talk to them?" my response is as above. A selfish attitude from some members of the flying fraternity may give the authorities all they need to make more airspace controlled, and makes those of us who do fly GA look like a right bunch of clowns to those at the pointy end of the expensive toys, and as one who flies both I think that is bloody unfair.
Sir Niall
I am a corporate pilot based at EGTK, I also fly in in my weekend toy. EGTK is very GA friendly and can provide a useful learning experience for inexperienced aviators as there are now a large number of mid-sized business jets as well as the flyings school and the old OATS.
Movements are no-where near the amount in the mid '80s when there would be seven in the circuit, ten joining and five in the hold (thank christ) Oxford then was second to LHR in annual movements, mostly PA28s and PA31s, Now there is a greater variety, and less overall movements.
On thing I would beg for though, if you are going to transit north about please give Approach (125.325) a call. On a grovelly weekend the TCAS warnings on approach can be a real worry. A lot of pilots are transiting through the instrument approach without calling ATC, who with no radar can't give traffic advice to aircraft flying the procedure, often their first knowledge of a transit is when we call a TCAS contact, on one Saturday last summer I completed the base turn to find 7 TCAS contacts, none of whom were talking to Oxford. I detest the phrase "airspace grab", but I can see a time when EGTK will get CAS so that protection can be applied for IFR approaches. Helping ATC and other pilots with a simple call may help keep CAS at bay. EGTK will get radar, but it is not scheduled for another 2 years, so the cheap option is CAS. If all pilots used the superb service from Oxford on their way past then maybe CAS could be avoided.
I met one chap recently who made that north about transit several times a month, his attitude was "why should I talk to them?" my response is as above. A selfish attitude from some members of the flying fraternity may give the authorities all they need to make more airspace controlled, and makes those of us who do fly GA look like a right bunch of clowns to those at the pointy end of the expensive toys, and as one who flies both I think that is bloody unfair.
Sir Niall
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastbourne, UK
Age: 99
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kidlington
Kidlington was opened in 1938 for advanced flying training. It had 3 runways, 2500 yards extended from 1140 yards, 2000 yards extended from 1140 yards and 1400 yards from 1312 yards. Its manpower consisted of 140 RAF officers and 8 WAAF officers, 310 senior NCOs and 6 WAAF and 980 ORs and 454 WAAFs.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
484 WAAFS!!! Just imagine all those RAF issue stockings and suspenders!!!!!!!!!!
God; off for a lie down now
A quick search on Google last night brought upsome great Oxford alumni who the airport could have been named Famous alumni and students of Oxford University:
Personally I liked the William Golding version: Oxford Middle Earth Airport.
Or Oxford Bertie Wooster Airport (I know, but the site has the famous fictional ones as well including Inspector Morse)
Sir Niall
God; off for a lie down now
A quick search on Google last night brought upsome great Oxford alumni who the airport could have been named Famous alumni and students of Oxford University:
Personally I liked the William Golding version: Oxford Middle Earth Airport.
Or Oxford Bertie Wooster Airport (I know, but the site has the famous fictional ones as well including Inspector Morse)
Sir Niall
@Sir Niall Dementia
Thread drift but -
I wish your first post had been available as an example to quote when we were trying to get CAS back at Prestwick - the last paragraph says it all really. It should give food for thought to those currently having a go at Norwich !
As for your second post re WAAFs - I concur. "Nurse, the screens !"
Thread drift but -
I wish your first post had been available as an example to quote when we were trying to get CAS back at Prestwick - the last paragraph says it all really. It should give food for thought to those currently having a go at Norwich !
As for your second post re WAAFs - I concur. "Nurse, the screens !"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Inverness-shire
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
London Middle Earth Tolkein not Golding? Inaccurate GPS input?
Interesting thought Sir Niall - all aircraft within 10 nm of Kidlington on a good thermic weekend to call them up? Traffic from the 3 local gliding clubs alone would fuse the system.
Alternative suggestion - ban executive travel & ILS approaches to Kidlington at weekends?
There's London Oakley - handier for the M40
Interesting thought Sir Niall - all aircraft within 10 nm of Kidlington on a good thermic weekend to call them up? Traffic from the 3 local gliding clubs alone would fuse the system.
Alternative suggestion - ban executive travel & ILS approaches to Kidlington at weekends?
There's London Oakley - handier for the M40
Last edited by astir 8; 19th Aug 2009 at 13:20.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NIK;
A lot of aircraft transit the area around the north of the ATZ (keeps them away from Brize) but then fly through the approach without talking to anyone.
Astir8, while EGTK is very GA friendly they make more money out of bizjets, everyone at the airport are aware of the gliders, some of us fly them too. If it comes to an argument I bet EGTK would go with the business community, so why start the argument in the first place. Flying GA is my relaxation from flying when the boss tells me to. I don't want more restrictions on my leisure because a few people can't use a touch of common sense. A jet on the ILS will be at 1800' at seven miles with a speed around 160kt. A call to approach at least alerts ATC and IFR traffic to the presence of other aircraft, as for gliders I flew past the comps at Lasham the other day when Fanborough had primary returns on up to 50 gliders at a time, it was mighty busy but the radar saved an awful lot of stress and no gliders were talking to Farnborough (personally I don't see why they should).
The area around EGTK is very busy, much as I enjoy flying with the radio switched right down and peace and quiet in the cockpit I would not transit this area without talking to someone either Brize for LARS or Oxford to at least let them know you are here.
As for gliders I wish I had that amount of freedom in my day job. And don't forget Weston-on-the-Green may be notified as active with nothing going on at all, or A Herc or parachute dropping aircraft.
A bit of common sense and courtesy can go a long way to stopping more CAS.
Sir Niall
A lot of aircraft transit the area around the north of the ATZ (keeps them away from Brize) but then fly through the approach without talking to anyone.
Astir8, while EGTK is very GA friendly they make more money out of bizjets, everyone at the airport are aware of the gliders, some of us fly them too. If it comes to an argument I bet EGTK would go with the business community, so why start the argument in the first place. Flying GA is my relaxation from flying when the boss tells me to. I don't want more restrictions on my leisure because a few people can't use a touch of common sense. A jet on the ILS will be at 1800' at seven miles with a speed around 160kt. A call to approach at least alerts ATC and IFR traffic to the presence of other aircraft, as for gliders I flew past the comps at Lasham the other day when Fanborough had primary returns on up to 50 gliders at a time, it was mighty busy but the radar saved an awful lot of stress and no gliders were talking to Farnborough (personally I don't see why they should).
The area around EGTK is very busy, much as I enjoy flying with the radio switched right down and peace and quiet in the cockpit I would not transit this area without talking to someone either Brize for LARS or Oxford to at least let them know you are here.
As for gliders I wish I had that amount of freedom in my day job. And don't forget Weston-on-the-Green may be notified as active with nothing going on at all, or A Herc or parachute dropping aircraft.
A bit of common sense and courtesy can go a long way to stopping more CAS.
Sir Niall
Judging by what some Kidlington arrivals consider to be 'the approach' with their 3 deg from 10 miles techniques, it's not surprising that there are potential conflictions for light aircraft transiting to the north at 2000-ish ft.
And on another note, is there really much demand for W-o-t-G that couldn't be conducted elsewhere?
And on another note, is there really much demand for W-o-t-G that couldn't be conducted elsewhere?
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle;
The arrival from the North is off Honiley with a reasonable rate of descent, but it does put you at around ten miles closing the localiser. If you fly the procedure from the OX the turn is at 6.5D. At 160kt the arc of turn will take you out to around 8.2D at 1800'
I recently flew the SATCO on a TRUCE trip which was my IRR, SATCO saw just how far out that turn takes you and how close you can get to WotG while in the hold.
No airfield is perfect and none can have perfect procedures, but EGTK does its' best to accomodate everyone, why can't we as a community try and accomodate the airport by just letting them know where we are?
Sir Niall
The arrival from the North is off Honiley with a reasonable rate of descent, but it does put you at around ten miles closing the localiser. If you fly the procedure from the OX the turn is at 6.5D. At 160kt the arc of turn will take you out to around 8.2D at 1800'
I recently flew the SATCO on a TRUCE trip which was my IRR, SATCO saw just how far out that turn takes you and how close you can get to WotG while in the hold.
No airfield is perfect and none can have perfect procedures, but EGTK does its' best to accomodate everyone, why can't we as a community try and accomodate the airport by just letting them know where we are?
Sir Niall
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FredaCheck
Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btw
Some months ago I arrived at Oxford on a Thursday. No a/c movements at all ...neat, and then I went and embarrassed myself by running off the side of the runway on to the grass for 50m or so.
Re-reading my Air Law book I see I was supposed to file an AAIB report for that.
Oh dear.
Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btw
Some months ago I arrived at Oxford on a Thursday. No a/c movements at all ...neat, and then I went and embarrassed myself by running off the side of the runway on to the grass for 50m or so.
Re-reading my Air Law book I see I was supposed to file an AAIB report for that.
Oh dear.
FredaCheck
Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btw
Distances from London are supposed to be measured from Charing Cross not Parliament Square btw
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: cambridge
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GA at Oxford
I fly there quite regulaly & they are very GA friendly, low landing fee (Single £17) & ATC is very accomodating if you want a straight in approach. The only issue's with airspace around Oxford is the Radar site nearby & Weston & Hinton because of glider & PJT's.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: swindon
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oxford - owned by nutters?
I'm reliably informed (as a regular Oxford pilot) that the re-naming of the airport was forced on the management by the owners who, residing on page 1 of the 'Sunday Times Rich List', can call the airport whatever they want. Everybody that works there thinks it was mad. The official line offered by the management was that it 'was to make international business aircraft operators aware of another alternative for accessing the north-west of London' which indeed Oxford is. The facts are that if you lived say in Kensington, you will get to Oxford quicker than you would Biggin Hill, Farnborough or Stansted and Luton on a bad day is no better a run. My passengers come from the Notting Hill/Holland Park area and we do that run in 50 minutes to the door of the aircraft and three minutes later I'm taking off - absalutely, catagorically not possible for any other London option other than say Northolt. Helicopters to Battersea take 19-20 minutes.
The renaming is bonkers and no doubt it will revert back to 'Oxford Airport' when the airport gets sold again one day - but it sure raised awareness of the fact that it is there internationally and even the locals suddenly realised it has a 'regional airport' on its doorstep.
On the matter of Oxford's GA-friendliness, as a resident, it is better value than some grass strips within the south east of the UK, has the best opening hours, the best GA terminal, excellent ATC, ILS and it's dead quiet compared to how it used to be due to the decline in pilot training. Class G airspace has both pros and cons but it is an inevitability that they'll have radar and controlled airspace one day.
No flying club though which is sad.
It's just a daft PR stunt to get noticed for the price of a new logo - to that end it worked. They've spent lots of money there over the last few years so I give them some moral support even though the name is utterly stupid.
The renaming is bonkers and no doubt it will revert back to 'Oxford Airport' when the airport gets sold again one day - but it sure raised awareness of the fact that it is there internationally and even the locals suddenly realised it has a 'regional airport' on its doorstep.
On the matter of Oxford's GA-friendliness, as a resident, it is better value than some grass strips within the south east of the UK, has the best opening hours, the best GA terminal, excellent ATC, ILS and it's dead quiet compared to how it used to be due to the decline in pilot training. Class G airspace has both pros and cons but it is an inevitability that they'll have radar and controlled airspace one day.
No flying club though which is sad.
It's just a daft PR stunt to get noticed for the price of a new logo - to that end it worked. They've spent lots of money there over the last few years so I give them some moral support even though the name is utterly stupid.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Inverness-shire
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see according to the press yesterday there's a subversive movement to get Bristol (Lulsgate Bottom) renamed "Adge Cutler International" Now that makes more sense than London Oxford!
Oooooh Arrrrrr, drink up thee zyder!
Oooooh Arrrrrr, drink up thee zyder!