PPL training /SFH in South Africa
Join Date: Dec 2000
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FRIDAY,
Another person just like me (DC-3 obsessed). The DC-3 owned by Phoebus Apollo is for their charter operation. I don't think you can buy hours on it. If you are really interested in flying the Dak and have £17000 to spare try South Coast Airways. Alternately, Tyler Aviation run a first officer program where you pay to fly the Dak commercially in the Caribbean. Packages start at 10800 USD for 250 hours. I wouldn't normally advocate working for no pay, let alone paying to work but I might be tempted to make an exception for the Dak.
Bob,
Sorry, drifted off topic slightly. Back to the hour-building in SA thing. Try Flight Training College of Africa. Not sure if they allow twin hire though. Single is about £55 ph, and the scenery is beautiful,
TB
Another person just like me (DC-3 obsessed). The DC-3 owned by Phoebus Apollo is for their charter operation. I don't think you can buy hours on it. If you are really interested in flying the Dak and have £17000 to spare try South Coast Airways. Alternately, Tyler Aviation run a first officer program where you pay to fly the Dak commercially in the Caribbean. Packages start at 10800 USD for 250 hours. I wouldn't normally advocate working for no pay, let alone paying to work but I might be tempted to make an exception for the Dak.
Bob,
Sorry, drifted off topic slightly. Back to the hour-building in SA thing. Try Flight Training College of Africa. Not sure if they allow twin hire though. Single is about £55 ph, and the scenery is beautiful,
TB
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PPL in South Africa
I was considering doing a PPL course in South Africa, and wondered if there is anyone out there who has been there, done that and got the t-shirt etc. and have any comments on flying in South Africa.
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Don't have the t-shirt as I did mine in the UK, but I did do some flying out of Wonderboom last year and if I were doing a licence from scratch I would definitely do it there.
It's unbelievably cheap (both to fly and to live), and there's an enthusiasm lacking in many UK schools. Please do a search because many of your questions will have already been answered on these forums. The guys on the African forum are extremely helpful and will not only answer any new questions but might even open some doors for you.
Of course there would be work to do once you got back, but as a head start, an hours cruncher and a confidence builder SA would be great.
If you do go, and feel the need for a break from flying, a trip to Robben Island from Cape Town is a remarkable experience and will definitely give you something to think about.
Have fun
It's unbelievably cheap (both to fly and to live), and there's an enthusiasm lacking in many UK schools. Please do a search because many of your questions will have already been answered on these forums. The guys on the African forum are extremely helpful and will not only answer any new questions but might even open some doors for you.
Of course there would be work to do once you got back, but as a head start, an hours cruncher and a confidence builder SA would be great.
If you do go, and feel the need for a break from flying, a trip to Robben Island from Cape Town is a remarkable experience and will definitely give you something to think about.
Have fun
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As per most replies, if you want to do a JAR PPL, you have no choice in SA but to do it at FTC in Midrand. I suggest you contact them directly for payment etc. but as usual, by all means pay a deposit, but don't part with the bulk until you're more than happy with them. Nothing against FTC in particular, just the usual advice I guess.
Planes are fine, 4 brand new PA-28's but also C172's if you'd prefer, together with some older PA28's. Accommodation is basic, food might push your taste bud limits, but for the price, is more than acceptable. The on site bar is a good site to sink a few, but there is usually an excursion somewhere in someones 'rent-a-wreck' that will keep you going. Safety on-site is fine, but don't walk into town on your own after dark (a bit like most places in Central London!). Local facilities are few and far between. One shopping centre, NO shops on site, not even a little convenience store if you've run out of toothpaste.
Now to the important bit. Instruction for PPL's is good, but PLEASE allow yourself AT LEAST 5 weeks to complete. There are many many people who go for the 4 weeker and don't complete. This is mainly due to a distinct lack of organisation with regard to the aircraft. They'll be double booked, cancelled without notice, unavailable due to the previous lesson over running, in for service (all at once sometimes!!), etc. etc. The weather, despite the "350 flying days per year" will OFTEN let you down as a PPL student (wind and visibility the main ones). If you can, do some exams first. The first week at FTC seems to be medicals, x-rays, admin stuff and about 6 hours flying. This will leave you seriously behind schedule in your flying, meaning that 3 flying 'slots' per day AND groundschool will leave you absolutely knackered. Sunday is a compulsory 'no flying' day for PPL'ers', especially if you went out and got 'shedded' the night before.
Please feel free to e-mail me if you want any other thoughts about the place
Planes are fine, 4 brand new PA-28's but also C172's if you'd prefer, together with some older PA28's. Accommodation is basic, food might push your taste bud limits, but for the price, is more than acceptable. The on site bar is a good site to sink a few, but there is usually an excursion somewhere in someones 'rent-a-wreck' that will keep you going. Safety on-site is fine, but don't walk into town on your own after dark (a bit like most places in Central London!). Local facilities are few and far between. One shopping centre, NO shops on site, not even a little convenience store if you've run out of toothpaste.
Now to the important bit. Instruction for PPL's is good, but PLEASE allow yourself AT LEAST 5 weeks to complete. There are many many people who go for the 4 weeker and don't complete. This is mainly due to a distinct lack of organisation with regard to the aircraft. They'll be double booked, cancelled without notice, unavailable due to the previous lesson over running, in for service (all at once sometimes!!), etc. etc. The weather, despite the "350 flying days per year" will OFTEN let you down as a PPL student (wind and visibility the main ones). If you can, do some exams first. The first week at FTC seems to be medicals, x-rays, admin stuff and about 6 hours flying. This will leave you seriously behind schedule in your flying, meaning that 3 flying 'slots' per day AND groundschool will leave you absolutely knackered. Sunday is a compulsory 'no flying' day for PPL'ers', especially if you went out and got 'shedded' the night before.
Please feel free to e-mail me if you want any other thoughts about the place
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I'm off visiting relatives in SA in November - and as any normal flying-obsessed person would have done, I've already looked into doing some flying whilst I'm out there.
A place in Durban has quoted me £115/hr+VAT for an R22 and £175/hr+VAT for an R44 sfh or dual!
Compare that with sfh of £135+VAT/hr for an R22 and £275+VAT/hr for an R44 in the UK and you can see why I'm thinking of doing some serious hour building over there!!!
Ivchenko, thanks for the Robben Island suggestion - might try that if I get as far as Cape Town!
A place in Durban has quoted me £115/hr+VAT for an R22 and £175/hr+VAT for an R44 sfh or dual!
Compare that with sfh of £135+VAT/hr for an R22 and £275+VAT/hr for an R44 in the UK and you can see why I'm thinking of doing some serious hour building over there!!!
Ivchenko, thanks for the Robben Island suggestion - might try that if I get as far as Cape Town!
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PPL and South Africa
Hi and thanks for stopping by...
I decided, after a big period of constant pondering, to take the chance to accomplish my dream. I'm about to leave for South Africa, where i'll be training for my first PPL. I still have a sort of little concern about the opportunity for me to convert the South African PPL into a JAR one. Can anyone give me a hand? Thanks in advance!
Alby
I decided, after a big period of constant pondering, to take the chance to accomplish my dream. I'm about to leave for South Africa, where i'll be training for my first PPL. I still have a sort of little concern about the opportunity for me to convert the South African PPL into a JAR one. Can anyone give me a hand? Thanks in advance!
Alby
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Dear Alby,
It's easy
SA PPL with less than 100 hours
+ JAR Class 2 Med
+ All 7 PPL Exams
+ JAR PPL Skills test
Forms JAR02 and FCL508, Logbook, Med, SA PPL and £143 to CAA
= JAR PPL(A)
Note - if more than 100 hours only Air Law and Human Performance needed.
You can use your SA PPL in the UK whilst the SEP rating and Medical remain valid if you wish to get up to the 100 hour mark. it's an ICAO Licence and that is fine for hiring G-Reg A/C without even converting it.
However if you go to FTC South Africa you can do a JAR PPL out there.
NOW WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY GYROPLANE ENQUIRY!!!!
Wibbly P
It's easy
SA PPL with less than 100 hours
+ JAR Class 2 Med
+ All 7 PPL Exams
+ JAR PPL Skills test
Forms JAR02 and FCL508, Logbook, Med, SA PPL and £143 to CAA
= JAR PPL(A)
Note - if more than 100 hours only Air Law and Human Performance needed.
You can use your SA PPL in the UK whilst the SEP rating and Medical remain valid if you wish to get up to the 100 hour mark. it's an ICAO Licence and that is fine for hiring G-Reg A/C without even converting it.
However if you go to FTC South Africa you can do a JAR PPL out there.
NOW WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY GYROPLANE ENQUIRY!!!!
Wibbly P
Join Date: Mar 2002
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WP - whilst you've got your thinking cap on...
If I go to SA with my JAR-PPL(H) and do a Jetranger rating whilst I'm out there - will that allow me to fly Jetrangers in the UK?
Sorry mate, can't help with Gyroplanes.
If I go to SA with my JAR-PPL(H) and do a Jetranger rating whilst I'm out there - will that allow me to fly Jetrangers in the UK?
Sorry mate, can't help with Gyroplanes.
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Rotorhorn,
No. To endorse your JAR-PPL(H) you would need to do the Jetranger course at a JAR approved school, either in the UK or in another member state.
However, should you come back with it endorsed on a SA PPL(H) then you would be able to fly G-reg 206's on your SA Licence!
Strange, nonsensical but true.
Wibbly
No. To endorse your JAR-PPL(H) you would need to do the Jetranger course at a JAR approved school, either in the UK or in another member state.
However, should you come back with it endorsed on a SA PPL(H) then you would be able to fly G-reg 206's on your SA Licence!
Strange, nonsensical but true.
Wibbly
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Flying the Garden Route
I'm going to South Africa - The garden route. Starting at Cape Town and Finishing at JoHo. ybody know a good place to get a light single and check out the scenary for a day? And what are the usual requirements to be able to hire an a/c over there - a quick check ride with the FI, or are there more hurdles to jump over before I can use my UK PPL in a South African registered a/c solo.
Any help would be most appreciated. Oh, and how many jabs do I need?
Any help would be most appreciated. Oh, and how many jabs do I need?
Not so N, but still FG
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Judging from recent magazine articles and postings here, there may be a bit more to getting checked out for SA (assuming you start with a CAA, JAR or other ICAO PPL) than there is for, say, the US, but Irv Lee at Popham has the requisite South African qualifications to check you out and sort out the paperwork before you go. Have fun, and please tell us about your trip, as it's one I'm thinking of for next year (or might do Oz instead).
Resident Brewer
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I'm doing much the same sort of thing this September. To fly in SA on a JAA PPL you have to take an open book air law exam and then a validation flight. This is basically a GFT plus a short triangular nav. trip. You then have to get your documents to the SA CAA and get issued with a SA PPL. This can take one to several days depending on the club you are flying with.
Irv Lee can do SA PPL revalidations in this country, but when I asked a few weeks ago, I was told that he cannot yet do the initial validation before you go. You have to do that in SA.
I am doing my validation and hire with Algoa at Port Elizabeth. From my dealings with them so far I can tell you that they are friendly, helpful, and very, very efficient. Why don't you talk to them - they will clear up the details for you.
As for the jabs - as far as I can see, you don't need any unless you are going to a known malarial area (basically the national parks in the north), or you are coming from an area with endemic yellow fever (not the UK!). But don't take my word for it - check with the foreign office web site.
Irv Lee can do SA PPL revalidations in this country, but when I asked a few weeks ago, I was told that he cannot yet do the initial validation before you go. You have to do that in SA.
I am doing my validation and hire with Algoa at Port Elizabeth. From my dealings with them so far I can tell you that they are friendly, helpful, and very, very efficient. Why don't you talk to them - they will clear up the details for you.
As for the jabs - as far as I can see, you don't need any unless you are going to a known malarial area (basically the national parks in the north), or you are coming from an area with endemic yellow fever (not the UK!). But don't take my word for it - check with the foreign office web site.
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Sounds like an interesting adventure, but first consider a few points
Hope this helps
Sultan Ismail
- Check your geography and the relevant ICAO maps
- To visit the garden Route, the town of George is a more suitable base
- Cape Town is obviously best for seeing the Cape Peninsula and flatlands
- There is a solid line of mountains to the North and East of Cape Town that could offer problems if you have only flown in the UK flatlands
- Cape Town to Joeys is about 1200 km and is a lot of nothingness, you get jaundice looking at the maps of the Karoo and the Free State
- Paperwork is best sorted out in the UK, there appears to be some gent at Popham who can help, the basic requirement is to write air law (SA CAA) and take a check ride
- You can hire and fly at Cape Town International and George, and possibly Fisantekraal (North of CT), rates about ZAR600 dual on PA28
- No jabs required
- Most important point, the summer starts in the Cape on 25 December, it's a fact
Hope this helps
Sultan Ismail
I say there boy
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Do it, you won't regret it. The garden route is a fabulous part of the world and it is all the better from the air. Cape Town - Plettenberg Bay or George is an easy flight and at Plett you can get a ride into town in ten minutes (or hire a car) to drive to Storms River/Tsitsikamma National Park. From George it is a quick short drive to Wilderness and Knysna - all worth a visit.
Make sure you do a low pass through the Knysna lagoon and take full advantage of SA's lax 500' rule!
Negotiating George's class C is a little bizarre if you're used to the UK where controlled airspace is a radar environment - they're full procedural as there's no radar (plus the controller is also the tower at George so he's often busy with circuit traffic), so make sure you know the VRPs (Albertinia and Sedgefield, from memory)
My CPL qualifying cross country was Plettenberg Bay - Beaufort West - Swellendam - (Garden Route) - Plettenberg Bay. Ahhh memories...
cheers!
foggy.
Make sure you do a low pass through the Knysna lagoon and take full advantage of SA's lax 500' rule!
Negotiating George's class C is a little bizarre if you're used to the UK where controlled airspace is a radar environment - they're full procedural as there's no radar (plus the controller is also the tower at George so he's often busy with circuit traffic), so make sure you know the VRPs (Albertinia and Sedgefield, from memory)
My CPL qualifying cross country was Plettenberg Bay - Beaufort West - Swellendam - (Garden Route) - Plettenberg Bay. Ahhh memories...
cheers!
foggy.
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice. WIll let you know how it goes. Incidentally, I wasd surprised no one mentioned Thunder City. Maybe I should try a short nav ex in oner of their T5s!
I say there boy
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Good Hope Flying Club and Thunder City share a clubhouse, so if you want to look at the big metal hire from them (2 x PA28, 2 x PA38, 1 x C172RG)
It's fun at CPT being told you're number two to the Hunter on right base.
It's fun at CPT being told you're number two to the Hunter on right base.
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Bad time for time building in South Coast
"It has come to our attention that Andrew & Geraldine Dixon, the Directors
of South Coast Airways, have taken the company to the point of liquidation
so that they can rid themselves of the lawful shareholders who have funded
the company and dump, without compunction, the many passengers, who have
paid in good faith, for flights on G-DAKK this summer. They intend to set
up another airline later in the year in association with the Dutch Dakota
Association using a Dutch Dakota which they have asked the Civil Aviation
to re-register as British."
South Coast Airways Limited ceased trading at noon on 11th July 2002
"It has come to our attention that Andrew & Geraldine Dixon, the Directors
of South Coast Airways, have taken the company to the point of liquidation
so that they can rid themselves of the lawful shareholders who have funded
the company and dump, without compunction, the many passengers, who have
paid in good faith, for flights on G-DAKK this summer. They intend to set
up another airline later in the year in association with the Dutch Dakota
Association using a Dutch Dakota which they have asked the Civil Aviation
to re-register as British."
South Coast Airways Limited ceased trading at noon on 11th July 2002
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Hours building in South Africa
I am planning a trip to South Africa for a month in Nov. I have been offered free accommodation at J'burg, George and Pretoria (and Potchefstroom, if you've heard of it!) and would like to get some hours in. Does anybody have any details of flying schools/websites that I could contact?