Oop t'North
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Oop t'North
Just bought a northern England map, so as to go somewhere different to burn up the 2.5 hours of solo time I need to keep my class rating.
Where near the bottom right hand corner of the map (but, obviously, off the overlap with the southern England chart) would be a good place to go for lunch on Friday?
Where near the bottom right hand corner of the map (but, obviously, off the overlap with the southern England chart) would be a good place to go for lunch on Friday?
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I'd say Netherthorpe but that is indeed on both charts. The lunch is certainly worth recommending imho.
People say Sherburn's nice. Can't comment on the quality of the food, never having eaten there.
JR
People say Sherburn's nice. Can't comment on the quality of the food, never having eaten there.
JR
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You could have a look at Sandtoft - but look out for the Bloodhound missiles near the 23 threshold (if they're still there!)
Or Elvington, with it's infinitely long runway. The caff's not brilliant, but the air museum is worth a look round. PPR essential or you could find the runway full of cars....
Breighton is another possibility, home to The Real Aeroplane Company. Some interesting old machines about. Can't remember what the food was like...
Hope you enjoy a Good Day!
We have been to Wellesbourne today. Very nice, if a bit windy. (16knts, gusting 24, right across, but fortunately only 12 when we arrived).
RF.
Or Elvington, with it's infinitely long runway. The caff's not brilliant, but the air museum is worth a look round. PPR essential or you could find the runway full of cars....
Breighton is another possibility, home to The Real Aeroplane Company. Some interesting old machines about. Can't remember what the food was like...
Hope you enjoy a Good Day!
We have been to Wellesbourne today. Very nice, if a bit windy. (16knts, gusting 24, right across, but fortunately only 12 when we arrived).
RF.
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Elvington or Breighton (Or both, they're only about 10min apart) are safe options as there's the museum at Elvington and lots of Pontious Pilot-era kit at Breigton (If that's your bent). Elvington is difficult to miss (2.5mi of runway - miss that and you probably shouldn't be flying), Breighton can be a bit of a pain to spot. Landing fees sensible at both, Breighton has a better cafe. Watch out for gliders from Pocklington and Rufforth, and Elvington is on the ILS for Church Fenton - likewise the area's pretty busy with Tucanos from Linton during the week.
Neverthorpe is as short as it is wide (Shortest licensed strip in the UK, apparently) so check your performance before you go there...
Neverthorpe is as short as it is wide (Shortest licensed strip in the UK, apparently) so check your performance before you go there...
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Thanks all so far ... I must say I'd be happier with 800m than 500m, so the best combination of runway length and caff recommendation so far looks like Breighton ... except that Pooley's says "refreshments and food at weekends", so I'd better give them a bell in the morning to see whether Good Friday counts as a weekend.
(I used a full 800m this afternoon, but I was proud enough of having done a decent turbulent crosswind landing off an NDB approach that I wasn't worrying about how much runway I was using up!)
(I used a full 800m this afternoon, but I was proud enough of having done a decent turbulent crosswind landing off an NDB approach that I wasn't worrying about how much runway I was using up!)
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Sherburn is a great place to visit for food, except Mondays. They are a busy airfield, with a fairly good atmosphere and good food.
Sandtoft, serves food all week, and can be very interesting on a busy day with unusual aircraft.
Sandtoft, serves food all week, and can be very interesting on a busy day with unusual aircraft.
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Breighton gets my vote mainly because of the interesting aircraft and nice people. Not sure about food other than at weekends as its a club rather than a business, but give them a call...They'll probably run you to the nearest pub!! They ran us to our B&B and picked us up the next morning.
Sherburn is a more commercial setup with lots of students and training aircraft with a cafe to feed them.
Sandtoft also has a cafe and nice people. I have just come back from there.
Haven't been much further Norf.
ZA
Sherburn is a more commercial setup with lots of students and training aircraft with a cafe to feed them.
Sandtoft also has a cafe and nice people. I have just come back from there.
Haven't been much further Norf.
ZA
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Breighton gets my vote mainly because of the interesting aircraft and nice people. Not sure about food other than at weekends as its a club rather than a business, but give them a call...They'll probably run you to the nearest pub!!
Elvington didn't answer the phone when I called.
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North Coates is a delightful coastal airfield with a beautiful grass strip akin to a billiard table. If I remember rightly about 650 metres or so. They certainly do a respectable sausage and egg sandwich at weekends and probably on a Good Friday too.
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Elvington airfield is PPR and has no facilities apart from a 3km runway!!!. It is often used by F1 teams etc so is often not available for landing.
The Museum is separate and is right next door with a nice cafe. However you have to pay museum entry fee to get into the cafe.
The museum is nothing to do with the airfield so cannot give you PPR etc.
The lift from Breighton depends on whether there are any club members there and whether they want to give a stranger a lift.
I would recomend dropping into Breighton, refueling (quite a good price) then after looking around, if no one offers a lift to the pub then flying 5 mins over to Sherburn and lunching there
DJ
The Museum is separate and is right next door with a nice cafe. However you have to pay museum entry fee to get into the cafe.
The museum is nothing to do with the airfield so cannot give you PPR etc.
The lift from Breighton depends on whether there are any club members there and whether they want to give a stranger a lift.
I would recomend dropping into Breighton, refueling (quite a good price) then after looking around, if no one offers a lift to the pub then flying 5 mins over to Sherburn and lunching there
DJ
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Finally got to do the trip today, went to Sherburn.
And annoyed someone on leaving.
I called "ready for departure", realising that I hadn't rembered the correct A/G speak for "I'm about to cross the hold, does anybody mind?". I saw nobody on final, and had heard nobody on the radio, and nobody made any call in response to mine. So I called "lining up" and moved towards the runway.
Then someone called "final". Bit late for me to do anything about it, as I had by now crossed the hold and was occupying the runway. So there's no way the guy on final could have landed if I'd stopped where I was, but there was a chance that if I got a move on he could land after I'd gone, so I called "taking off" and took off.
I then got told off for making someone go around. Fair enough, I probably should have spotted them and not entered the runway in the first place, even though they hadn't yet called final. But they were, I think, trying to suggest that having entered the runway, and then heard them call final after I had already entered the runway, I should have held my position so that they could land whilst I was occupying the runway.
I know you can't land on an occupied runway at a controlled airfield, but I'm not familiar with A/G operations - is this rule different? Is it OK to land after someone else has crossed the hold and then stopped?
And annoyed someone on leaving.
I called "ready for departure", realising that I hadn't rembered the correct A/G speak for "I'm about to cross the hold, does anybody mind?". I saw nobody on final, and had heard nobody on the radio, and nobody made any call in response to mine. So I called "lining up" and moved towards the runway.
Then someone called "final". Bit late for me to do anything about it, as I had by now crossed the hold and was occupying the runway. So there's no way the guy on final could have landed if I'd stopped where I was, but there was a chance that if I got a move on he could land after I'd gone, so I called "taking off" and took off.
I then got told off for making someone go around. Fair enough, I probably should have spotted them and not entered the runway in the first place, even though they hadn't yet called final. But they were, I think, trying to suggest that having entered the runway, and then heard them call final after I had already entered the runway, I should have held my position so that they could land whilst I was occupying the runway.
I know you can't land on an occupied runway at a controlled airfield, but I'm not familiar with A/G operations - is this rule different? Is it OK to land after someone else has crossed the hold and then stopped?
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Did you pause long enough to listen for circuit traffic?
As long as he didn't call finals until after you've entered the runway, I'd say he's got no right to complain.
"Making someone go around" is not really possible unless your at the controls of their aircraft.
The decision to go around was entirely his and it was the correct one but that's what flying at A/G aerodromes is like. He should get used to it.
Don't beat yourself up over it.
As long as he didn't call finals until after you've entered the runway, I'd say he's got no right to complain.
"Making someone go around" is not really possible unless your at the controls of their aircraft.
The decision to go around was entirely his and it was the correct one but that's what flying at A/G aerodromes is like. He should get used to it.
Don't beat yourself up over it.
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Did you pause long enough to listen for circuit traffic?
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In my inexperience, I would have swung the aircraft around and vacated the runway back onto the taxiway, provided no-one else had come up to the hold. Would that have been an option?
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In my inexperience, I would have swung the aircraft around and vacated the runway back onto the taxiway, provided no-one else had come up to the hold. Would that have been an option?
(It wasn't a desperately wide taxiway and might only have worked quickly enough if I'd been to one side of it, rather than in the centre where I actually was.)
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My normal calls would be "G-xx taxiing for xx & hold" then after a lookround & seeing/hearing nothing "G-xx entering xx to line up".
I someone calls final after that it's their problem, Though I may be tempted to call them " G-zz G-xx do you have me visual at xx threshold?" as I try to duck! They may be a lot faster than you & may chew your tail in the go around/takeoff conflict. Turning round in a hurry just might put you nose to nose with someone else.
Just my twopennorth.
Edit: I have also heard urgently "Negative! Negative! one on" at our A/G field, after a "final" call. So I think the rule still applies.
I someone calls final after that it's their problem, Though I may be tempted to call them " G-zz G-xx do you have me visual at xx threshold?" as I try to duck! They may be a lot faster than you & may chew your tail in the go around/takeoff conflict. Turning round in a hurry just might put you nose to nose with someone else.
Just my twopennorth.
Edit: I have also heard urgently "Negative! Negative! one on" at our A/G field, after a "final" call. So I think the rule still applies.
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Anything on the field has priority over anything coming into land as far as I know (apart from emergencies, I'd have thought!). Although you could turn round and taxi back, why should you? You made you intentions known at the appropriate juncture. They called final after this. Their problem.
The only way I can see you being justifiably sheepish is if you only turned you radio on just prior to lining up, thus missing any previous calls from said craft on final. Otherwise nah, not your fault.
A/G stations rely almost entirely on the sensibilities and communication skills of individual pilots. Sadly not entirely infallible by any means
The only way I can see you being justifiably sheepish is if you only turned you radio on just prior to lining up, thus missing any previous calls from said craft on final. Otherwise nah, not your fault.
A/G stations rely almost entirely on the sensibilities and communication skills of individual pilots. Sadly not entirely infallible by any means
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The only way I can see you being justifiably sheepish
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Originally Posted by John Rayner
Anything on the field has priority over anything coming into land as far as I know (apart from emergencies, I'd have thought!).
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
Well, it's possible that I might have seen them if I'd been better at looking out, even though they hadn't called final, that's the only thing I think I ought to feel sheepish about.
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As far as I know...
Sherburn are big on EVERYONE joining over head, and nobody swooping in straight onto final, so it's unlikely he just came outta nowhere (honest guv'). As you most likely taxied out on frequency, you should have been able to hear that character making calls for "overhead descending", "downwind", "base" and "final". If he didn't, then that's his problem.
I don't buy the turn around and exit the runway theory. Actually it's one of the silliest things I've ever heard, no offence. What else would you consider doing, add full power and run off the side of the runway, just so someone can land?! It must take all of 25-30 seconds from entering the runway to being well out of the way, so I think you were just unlucky to get a "flapper" who probably heard you, saw you, then panicked when he could have easily continued and landed safely behind you.
Most likely it was some miserable old sod who noticed you were an "outsider" and wanted to give you a hard time. He probably kept his speed up on final just to be aggressive and make a point. If he wanted to go around from 3-400 feet, that's his choice. So while I'm not recommending landing on the back of someone, I wouldn't bin an approach just because someone's entered a runway. If the guy in fronts wheels aren't off the runway before I start to flare, then I'd worry.
In all my time at Sherburn (on and off for 10 or so years) their A/G was mostly a chat frequency anyway, and "correct" radio procedures (of the sort I experienced at Thruxton, Old Sarum, Blackbushe etc) were often lacking. I think you gave the guy plenty of warning from your "ready" call, so he should have spoken up then.
Don't let that put you (or anyone else) off from going back there though!
I don't buy the turn around and exit the runway theory. Actually it's one of the silliest things I've ever heard, no offence. What else would you consider doing, add full power and run off the side of the runway, just so someone can land?! It must take all of 25-30 seconds from entering the runway to being well out of the way, so I think you were just unlucky to get a "flapper" who probably heard you, saw you, then panicked when he could have easily continued and landed safely behind you.
Most likely it was some miserable old sod who noticed you were an "outsider" and wanted to give you a hard time. He probably kept his speed up on final just to be aggressive and make a point. If he wanted to go around from 3-400 feet, that's his choice. So while I'm not recommending landing on the back of someone, I wouldn't bin an approach just because someone's entered a runway. If the guy in fronts wheels aren't off the runway before I start to flare, then I'd worry.
In all my time at Sherburn (on and off for 10 or so years) their A/G was mostly a chat frequency anyway, and "correct" radio procedures (of the sort I experienced at Thruxton, Old Sarum, Blackbushe etc) were often lacking. I think you gave the guy plenty of warning from your "ready" call, so he should have spoken up then.
Don't let that put you (or anyone else) off from going back there though!