Senior Moments
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Did the live magnetos thing. On when they should have been off.Flat battery. Man swinging prop for me, just sucking in, of course it started up. Fortunately he was treating me like an idiot, and was standing back when he released the prop. Came round the door, gave me a polite telling off.I flew, landed, and sought him out. He was in the middle of a large group of people on the ramp [he was someone quite famous in the flying world].I swallowed my pride [what was left] walked into the middle of the group, and apologised to him. As I walked away, several people asked him what that was all about. I heard his reply 'oh, nothing. He just learnt something that he won't do again'.He could have made me appear a fool to so many people, but chose not to. Nicest person I ever met, flying wise. Happy New Year.
Avoid imitations
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Years ago a then colleague of mine signed for his RAF Puma helicopter and took off on task. A short while later he was back, with all his kit, the aircraft was u/s.
He grumpily gave the groundcrew some grief and signed for another helicopter. Then he walked back out to the same aircraft and took off in it again!
He grumpily gave the groundcrew some grief and signed for another helicopter. Then he walked back out to the same aircraft and took off in it again!
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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ShyTorque, who was it who stuck his fingers up at a ground controller at a northern airfield (Yorkshire?) - I think he was trying to say that his second engine still needed to be watched (in case of startup problems, hence the need to observe it). Apparently the said person got into some trouble when he landed later, in the south of the UK,
Best Regards
Rich
Best Regards
Rich
When I screw up, I tend to confess to my flying buddies. Good for the soul and all that. Told one of my hangar-mates about forgetting the spoilers and seatbelt. My hangar-mate is at least 10 times the pilot I will ever be. But he had a topper for my seatbelt senior moment. He has owned a couple of single place Pitts, one he built as a kid and one he bought later. Often when he was flying somewhere, rather than thrashing it around, he liked to have a smoke. Said there was a good enough bubble of still air even with the open cockpit. But to get his cig and lighter out, he had to undo his harness and chute. One time after a smoke he hit a big bump and had to catch himself on the way out of the airplane, chute unfastened too. Turns out he had completely forgotten to strap back in. Said he had never gotten buckled back up so fast after he had nearly ejected.
-- IFMU
-- IFMU
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Senior moments...
Will admit to not putting the oil filler cap back on after topping up the oil. Can't recall what caused the interuption in the process. I suspect I left the cap (and its dip stick) out of site.
Uneventful flight of an hour until was just short of destination when spotted fluctuating oil pressure.
Told "ATC" what I was experiencing and asked for immediate landing as a glide approach. Granted.
On the ground, most of the oil was sticking to the side of the aircraft.
The sun shines on the fortunate. Was able to borrow a replacement oil cap and, after a refill, flew home again. Found the bits of the old filler cap in the grass (perhaps it was the hanging about of the man mowing the grass that rushed me?). Drove the borrowed filler cap back straight away to the distant airport and ordered a new cap on the Monday which arrived later in the week.
Other members of the group have since admitted to similar "moments"...
Roger
Uneventful flight of an hour until was just short of destination when spotted fluctuating oil pressure.
Told "ATC" what I was experiencing and asked for immediate landing as a glide approach. Granted.
On the ground, most of the oil was sticking to the side of the aircraft.
The sun shines on the fortunate. Was able to borrow a replacement oil cap and, after a refill, flew home again. Found the bits of the old filler cap in the grass (perhaps it was the hanging about of the man mowing the grass that rushed me?). Drove the borrowed filler cap back straight away to the distant airport and ordered a new cap on the Monday which arrived later in the week.
Other members of the group have since admitted to similar "moments"...
Roger
Avoid imitations
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ShyTorque, who was it who stuck his fingers up at a ground controller at a northern airfield (Yorkshire?) - I think he was trying to say that his second engine still needed to be watched (in case of startup problems, hence the need to observe it). Apparently the said person got into some trouble when he landed later, in the south of the UK,
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Over the years and in no particular order:
taking off with carb heat
leaving fuel caps off after refuelling...and flying after...
doing up the harness sometime after take off
leaving the pitot cover on
leaving the rudder lock on
not checking the primer locked
spare seat belt flapping outside
taking off with full back trim
getting strapped in and started before realising the headset is in the car
and probably several/many more but I'm getting older and can't remember...
None of the above caused more than a
moment, except the fuel caps, which was a grovelling job as it wasn't my aeroplane. The confessional revealed that the multi-thousand hours career instructors have as many screw-ups and just because we've admitted a few, it doesn't mean we won't make all the rest and then some.
So despite the checklists and good intentions, we are but the stuff of Human Factors.
Happy flying year to all.
taking off with carb heat
leaving fuel caps off after refuelling...and flying after...
doing up the harness sometime after take off
leaving the pitot cover on
leaving the rudder lock on
not checking the primer locked
spare seat belt flapping outside
taking off with full back trim
getting strapped in and started before realising the headset is in the car
and probably several/many more but I'm getting older and can't remember...
None of the above caused more than a
moment, except the fuel caps, which was a grovelling job as it wasn't my aeroplane. The confessional revealed that the multi-thousand hours career instructors have as many screw-ups and just because we've admitted a few, it doesn't mean we won't make all the rest and then some.So despite the checklists and good intentions, we are but the stuff of Human Factors.
Happy flying year to all.
until reading this, I don't think I'd have realised that would happen !
Thanks !
Thanks !
Make every mistake a learning experience, why do you think we have check lists ? The Wright Brothers didn't have one, but every item on todays' check lists are the result of someone cocking it up. The lists are still growing !
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Let me see now.
- Done the mag switch thing
- Tried to taxi with chocks still in place - lots of cheers from onlookers
- Wondered why the engine wouldn't start and finding I hadn't turned on the fuel
- Forgotten to close the oil inspection hatch on a 172 and not noticed until the prop wash lifted it open
- Taxied to hold and realised I had left the map in the club house. Embarrassing call to ATC and a quick about turn
- Had clamshell door open accelerating through 50kts on take-off. Not closed and locked.....
Last but not least....pulled the mixture lever to ICO when supposed to be applying carb heat. Quickly corrected by pushing said lever through the panel when the engine started to cough. Concentrates the mind when cleared VFR not above 1000' offshore!
Ho Hum
- Done the mag switch thing
- Tried to taxi with chocks still in place - lots of cheers from onlookers
- Wondered why the engine wouldn't start and finding I hadn't turned on the fuel
- Forgotten to close the oil inspection hatch on a 172 and not noticed until the prop wash lifted it open
- Taxied to hold and realised I had left the map in the club house. Embarrassing call to ATC and a quick about turn
- Had clamshell door open accelerating through 50kts on take-off. Not closed and locked.....
Last but not least....pulled the mixture lever to ICO when supposed to be applying carb heat. Quickly corrected by pushing said lever through the panel when the engine started to cough. Concentrates the mind when cleared VFR not above 1000' offshore!
Ho Hum
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Turned the fuel selector in a DR400-160 to "off" when it should have been going to "center". Luckily the passenger (a pilot too) sitting next to me caught it and corrected immediately. We were at 1000 feet at that time, and that would probably not have been sufficient to recover.
In my defense, in the DR400-160 (with the saddle tanks) the fuel selector points *backwards* when selecting "center" and *forwards* when selecting "off". AFAIC, a gross violation of the "forward or upwards is good/go" principle.
Forgot to turn the mags off when doing a quick passenger change. No excuse there.
Forgot to turn the transponder on when entering the runway - multiple times. Forgot to turn off the carb heat after landing - multiple times. Same for landing lights & transponder. Have now altered my routine for entering and leaving the runway.
Changing my navigation plan laterally in-flight (due to intense glider activity at a certain field) but kept executing the plan vertically, thus busting class C. Just a corner, no harm done except to my ego.
In my defense, in the DR400-160 (with the saddle tanks) the fuel selector points *backwards* when selecting "center" and *forwards* when selecting "off". AFAIC, a gross violation of the "forward or upwards is good/go" principle.
Forgot to turn the mags off when doing a quick passenger change. No excuse there.
Forgot to turn the transponder on when entering the runway - multiple times. Forgot to turn off the carb heat after landing - multiple times. Same for landing lights & transponder. Have now altered my routine for entering and leaving the runway.
Changing my navigation plan laterally in-flight (due to intense glider activity at a certain field) but kept executing the plan vertically, thus busting class C. Just a corner, no harm done except to my ego.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Made an approach in a Seneca twin in very poor vis and low cloud.
No instrument approach so low cloud break to airfield I knew well.
Came out of cloud with gear down and three greens. Caught a glimse of the runway at MY minima which is lower than am prepared to admit so fixed my eyes out of the cockpit trying to keep the numbers in sight.
Went back into cloud and decided to go around. Told the pilot in the right seat but then came out of the cloud with the numbers visible again.
Continued approach to land flared just as I glanced down and saw NO GREENS.
Full power, pitched up waiting for the props to strike. Aircraft climbed away with no ground contact. phew!!!
My elderly co pilot (73) had reached over and lifted the gear when I said going around and forgot to tell me I had my eyes firmly fixed on the numbers in the gloom. Closest I have ever had to a wheel up landing as the props must have been a couple of feet off the runway. Dont know if it was his senior moment at 73 or my mid life moment at missing it.
Pace
No instrument approach so low cloud break to airfield I knew well.
Came out of cloud with gear down and three greens. Caught a glimse of the runway at MY minima which is lower than am prepared to admit
so fixed my eyes out of the cockpit trying to keep the numbers in sight. Went back into cloud and decided to go around. Told the pilot in the right seat but then came out of the cloud with the numbers visible again.
Continued approach to land flared just as I glanced down and saw NO GREENS.
Full power, pitched up waiting for the props to strike. Aircraft climbed away with no ground contact. phew!!!
My elderly co pilot (73) had reached over and lifted the gear when I said going around and forgot to tell me
I had my eyes firmly fixed on the numbers in the gloom. Closest I have ever had to a wheel up landing as the props must have been a couple of feet off the runway. Dont know if it was his senior moment at 73 or my mid life moment at missing it.Pace
Last edited by Pace; 2nd Jan 2009 at 15:42.
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a lucky break !
Wow ! That last one's a real corker !
Actually, not so much to do with "senior moment" in one person, but more to do with co-operation and communication between two ! More or less a perfect definition of CRM ! !
Actually, not so much to do with "senior moment" in one person, but more to do with co-operation and communication between two ! More or less a perfect definition of CRM ! !
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Actually, not so much to do with "senior moment" in one person, but more to do with co-operation and communication between two ! More or less a perfect definition of CRM ! !
He is 73
you cant get a lot more senior than that! Now I am sure there will be a spate of 90 year olds posting But at least I noticed it with about 1/10th of a second to spare
and in CRM I am supposed to call for gear first This was a single pilot plane just habit on his part and trying to be helpful and then forgetting it.And then of course there was the emergency descent from FL170 in a jet after a slot departure and an overweight late passenger blocking the door as I secured it.
Chuck in a rushed departure, Failed door insecure light and nothing until a loud hiss and the 10000 foot cabin pressure warning light coming on. Oh well all makes life more exciting
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 2nd Jan 2009 at 17:39.
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another thread, maybe . . . . . . ?
Strikes me there is a great idea here for another thread which could be really interesting.
I can understand that very well; if I were a passenger in a light plane I'd be keen to help too ! But we have just read the PERFECT reason why on any given flight one should be a pilot, or a passenger, but not both !
Q. Multi-crew flights need CRM; single crew flights need "no-touch" passengers ? Discuss.
(either this thread, or maybe someone will start a new one ! )
This was a single pilot plane. Just habit on his part, and trying to be helpful, and then forgetting it
Q. Multi-crew flights need CRM; single crew flights need "no-touch" passengers ? Discuss.
(either this thread, or maybe someone will start a new one ! )
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A bit late to this thread but I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of comments regarding checklists. I thought it was just me that didn't use them but I'm obviously in good company here !!
wishing you all safe flying.....
wishing you all safe flying.....
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AME ad PPL
In the Private pilot forum there is probably very little CRM as the aircraft are not two crew operations . As you stated it should be one or the other single pilot only or CRM.
The danger is a mix of the two which occurred in my situation.
Having said that mix of the two is more likely to occur in private light aircraft where two friends fly together and both want to take part in the flight.
Because they are not following a structured division of duties or often not confirming an action with each other then there must there must be a higher risk of something being missed.
Nowadays especially with the economic climate there are more pilots who cost share and hence flight share.
Maybe there should be training or lectures given in the possible perils of doing so and recommendations for CRM specific to PPLs and private light GA.
Pace
In the Private pilot forum there is probably very little CRM as the aircraft are not two crew operations . As you stated it should be one or the other single pilot only or CRM.
The danger is a mix of the two which occurred in my situation.
Having said that mix of the two is more likely to occur in private light aircraft where two friends fly together and both want to take part in the flight.
Because they are not following a structured division of duties or often not confirming an action with each other then there must there must be a higher risk of something being missed.
Nowadays especially with the economic climate there are more pilots who cost share and hence flight share.
Maybe there should be training or lectures given in the possible perils of doing so and recommendations for CRM specific to PPLs and private light GA.
Pace
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A bit late to this thread but I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of comments regarding checklists. I thought it was just me that didn't use them but I'm obviously in good company here !!
wishing you all safe flying.....
wishing you all safe flying.....
For me you never really now an aircraft until you can fly it without checklists.
This is NOT an arguement for not using checklists but a caution that there are times when for one reason or another you cannot use a checklist and knowing them by heart is a safety backup to using them.
Of course the right way is to know them by heart and use them.
Pace
Backpacker - Commercial Commuter company here, some years ago, had 3 aeroplanes, same type, but different vintage. 2 had fuel selectors that went Left - Right - Off, and 1 had a selector that went Left - Off - Right.
All day pilots flew the 2 similar a/c, but at the end of a long day were switched to the dissimilar one. Guess what ?
Coroner said pilots are stupid - or words to that effect - can they not read ?
How often do you drive your wifes' car, and at the first corner start the windscreen wipers ? Are you stupid, can't you read ? How often do you bother to read the label on your own car wiper switch before touching it? You KNOW it's the wiper switch - but one day..... it's a different car.
QED.
Learning to fly the 707, a group of us were asked by the training captain what the first action was in the event of an engine fire ? All the smart-asses came up with their idea of the right answer. All wrong. Do nothing, he said, sit on your hands and THINK.
Many a twin has crashed after an engine failure because the pilot has stopped the perfectly good engine !
The only time to react with alacrity is in a situation described by Pace, a wheels up landing is never pretty ! Well done that man.
A Comet 4 once landed wheels up, very smooth landing, crew only realised ( so the saying goes ) when they needed a lot of power to turn off the runway !!
Murphy is always with us.
All day pilots flew the 2 similar a/c, but at the end of a long day were switched to the dissimilar one. Guess what ?
Coroner said pilots are stupid - or words to that effect - can they not read ?
How often do you drive your wifes' car, and at the first corner start the windscreen wipers ? Are you stupid, can't you read ? How often do you bother to read the label on your own car wiper switch before touching it? You KNOW it's the wiper switch - but one day..... it's a different car.
QED.
Learning to fly the 707, a group of us were asked by the training captain what the first action was in the event of an engine fire ? All the smart-asses came up with their idea of the right answer. All wrong. Do nothing, he said, sit on your hands and THINK.
Many a twin has crashed after an engine failure because the pilot has stopped the perfectly good engine !
The only time to react with alacrity is in a situation described by Pace, a wheels up landing is never pretty ! Well done that man.
A Comet 4 once landed wheels up, very smooth landing, crew only realised ( so the saying goes ) when they needed a lot of power to turn off the runway !!
Murphy is always with us.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 3rd Jan 2009 at 08:47.
Climbing out with instructor observing, rate of climb decreasing, plane stops climbing. It took us some time to notice the throttle friction hadn't been tightened and the engine revs were gradually dropping. Duh.