Controlled Airspace Transits
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It's 3500ft going south, 4500ft going north.
It's a pretty tightly sliced Bravo at low level above LAX. 1500ft is the heli crossing route, 2000ft is the missed approach altitude, 2500ft is the VFR Mini Route where you talk to the tower, 3000ft is IFR, 3500ft is the Special Flight Rules, 4000 is IFR again, 4500 is the SFR's again etc.
I think Heathrow has a SVFR transit that I've heard some get, but I haven't seen anything published and I think it's an exception rather than a rule. I could be wrong. There's obviously the heli lanes that are VFR, but that's about it.
It's a pretty tightly sliced Bravo at low level above LAX. 1500ft is the heli crossing route, 2000ft is the missed approach altitude, 2500ft is the VFR Mini Route where you talk to the tower, 3000ft is IFR, 3500ft is the Special Flight Rules, 4000 is IFR again, 4500 is the SFR's again etc.
I think Heathrow has a SVFR transit that I've heard some get, but I haven't seen anything published and I think it's an exception rather than a rule. I could be wrong. There's obviously the heli lanes that are VFR, but that's about it.
Avoid imitations
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The London Heathrow airspace is class A. The heli routes are therefore SVFR, not VFR.
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The benefits of flying helicopters!
SVFR Heathrow crossing (never been refused)
London Heli-lanes (refused entry once due to ILS calibration aircraft working City; fair enough)
Transits through Gatwick, Dublin, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen - never been refused.
All military zone transits - always have been give.
I was taught to call early. For example, Shoreham to Redhill direct, I call Gatwick as soon as I am clear of Shoreham. as I continue on route, clearance to enter the zone can come literally at the last minute but (so far) not even had to orbit. Gatwick always ask me to leave via Buckland Lake VRP but (so far) they have always been able to accepted my request in response for a hand-over to Redhill for a "sharp right" into the field.
Redhill to Shoreham I tend to go around the Western edge of Gatwick zone as the time taken to set up a crossing negates the potential benefit. The benefits of calling early!
City crossing (Lea Valley for a float-equipped helicopter offers plenty of land-clear options) there will be some orbiting 25% of the time unless the flight is Saturday PM or Sunday AM. The alternative routing to Lea Valley offered to helicopters I always refuse - I don't like the land-clear options on that one though other (better) heli pilots are happy to take it. I then elect to "remain outside" and go around the Eastern edge: so that's not a refusal by ATC, that's my decision to cancel the request.
Crossing Heathrow - I don't do that one as often. Many destinations (for me) make little difference in flight time over / around the Western edge so I don't see any advantage in adding to everyone's workload, including mine, by going over the top.
SVFR Heathrow crossing (never been refused)
London Heli-lanes (refused entry once due to ILS calibration aircraft working City; fair enough)
Transits through Gatwick, Dublin, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen - never been refused.
All military zone transits - always have been give.
I was taught to call early. For example, Shoreham to Redhill direct, I call Gatwick as soon as I am clear of Shoreham. as I continue on route, clearance to enter the zone can come literally at the last minute but (so far) not even had to orbit. Gatwick always ask me to leave via Buckland Lake VRP but (so far) they have always been able to accepted my request in response for a hand-over to Redhill for a "sharp right" into the field.
Redhill to Shoreham I tend to go around the Western edge of Gatwick zone as the time taken to set up a crossing negates the potential benefit. The benefits of calling early!
City crossing (Lea Valley for a float-equipped helicopter offers plenty of land-clear options) there will be some orbiting 25% of the time unless the flight is Saturday PM or Sunday AM. The alternative routing to Lea Valley offered to helicopters I always refuse - I don't like the land-clear options on that one though other (better) heli pilots are happy to take it. I then elect to "remain outside" and go around the Eastern edge: so that's not a refusal by ATC, that's my decision to cancel the request.
Crossing Heathrow - I don't do that one as often. Many destinations (for me) make little difference in flight time over / around the Western edge so I don't see any advantage in adding to everyone's workload, including mine, by going over the top.
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Hi All,
I work at the South's "leading" regional airport (sorry, had to get that in there!) and we are always encouraging G.A pilots to visit us so they can gain a better understanding of how the airport and ATC works. As part of the visit, pilots will see behind the scenes of Ops and also head up to Southampton Tower and Solent Radar so they can ask all of those burning questions including why do I sometimes have to carry out a hold/orbit and what information do you really need to pass over the R/T to guarantee a zone transit etc. Its your opportunity to meet the faces behind the microphone and really just to see that they are people too!
The Solent CTA is one of the most infringed sections of airspace in the country as it is fairly complicated, we would much rather take time out and show you round so you can get a better understanding of ATC the airspace and airport instead of talking to you after you have strayed into controlled airspace.
If you are part of a club or syndicate and would like to arrange a visit please PM me for further details!
I work at the South's "leading" regional airport (sorry, had to get that in there!) and we are always encouraging G.A pilots to visit us so they can gain a better understanding of how the airport and ATC works. As part of the visit, pilots will see behind the scenes of Ops and also head up to Southampton Tower and Solent Radar so they can ask all of those burning questions including why do I sometimes have to carry out a hold/orbit and what information do you really need to pass over the R/T to guarantee a zone transit etc. Its your opportunity to meet the faces behind the microphone and really just to see that they are people too!
The Solent CTA is one of the most infringed sections of airspace in the country as it is fairly complicated, we would much rather take time out and show you round so you can get a better understanding of ATC the airspace and airport instead of talking to you after you have strayed into controlled airspace.
If you are part of a club or syndicate and would like to arrange a visit please PM me for further details!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Used to operate an aircraft out of fishburn and my flights used to be along the coast heading south or the couple of times i blasted around Whitby for the hour, I used to fly through the esk valley there and along the coast on the way back.
After departure from fishburn, straight onto the radio to Durham Tees anyway for a service but sometimes asked for transit of controlled airspace direct to Stokesley - normally fine, controller plays ball.
However there's one bugger in that radar room who tried several times on separate occasions to get me to go through the overhead at some daft flight level or being deliberately awkward, needles to say the requests were cancelled.
Otherwise Ive found controllers to be fair and helpful where they can be. Countless transits of Brize during training, Doncaster and East Mids are good, even had a transit through Birmingham.
Plenty more exploring to do
Dan
After departure from fishburn, straight onto the radio to Durham Tees anyway for a service but sometimes asked for transit of controlled airspace direct to Stokesley - normally fine, controller plays ball.
However there's one bugger in that radar room who tried several times on separate occasions to get me to go through the overhead at some daft flight level or being deliberately awkward, needles to say the requests were cancelled.
Otherwise Ive found controllers to be fair and helpful where they can be. Countless transits of Brize during training, Doncaster and East Mids are good, even had a transit through Birmingham.
Plenty more exploring to do
Dan
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hegemon88 - where are you based?
I used to moan about Stansted based on what other people told me. I then went to try it myself....
Done Luton about 5 times (never refused once)
Done Stansted about 10 times (couldn't get through once but they were very busy - When I called it was quite quiet but it suddenly went insanely busy after I made my first call).
To get over my initial fear, I did my first transit during the ash cloud, just to get some confidence. Now I don't think twice about asking any more.
I used to moan about Stansted based on what other people told me. I then went to try it myself....
Done Luton about 5 times (never refused once)
Done Stansted about 10 times (couldn't get through once but they were very busy - When I called it was quite quiet but it suddenly went insanely busy after I made my first call).
To get over my initial fear, I did my first transit during the ash cloud, just to get some confidence. Now I don't think twice about asking any more.
Last edited by TractorBoy; 28th Apr 2013 at 08:16.
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Hegemon88 you started your own thread on this literally a few days ago so I'm not sure why you've posted again here, here's the reply that I took my time to write considering I'm based right on the edge of the Stansted zone and have transitted quite regularly in the last couple of years:
According to my logbook I've transited Stansted a total of 8 times in the last 2 years and Luton twice - I've not been denied once (yet!).
With Luton you have the prescribed lane, both times I stuck to this and it was very simple - they normally just ask you to report at each VRP and to hold short of crossing the active runway until they give you the go ahead.
With Stansted it's much more unpredictable. The key thing is they don't really like letting you in if it's a bit pointless, if you're just cutting a corner for example. However, if you need to actually get across the zone either width-ways or length-ways, they'll accommodate you if they can but do expect long periods of orbiting. I think it's useful for the controllers if you can give them a a position according to one of their VRP's so that they know exactly where you plan to enter/exit. Once I was told to hold for approx 15 mins near Audley End VRP before they finally let me in, another time I was in almost straight away but then had to orbit short of the runway for about 10 mins. Once they sent me 'over the active threshold no higher than 1500ft' and made me change to the tower controller whilst overhead (which was great!), another time they routed me over the top of Bishop's Stortford, and then through the ILS track several miles away from the runway whilst keeping me on the radar frequency only.
The key thing I always stick to which seems to work is:
Initial Call: "Essex radar, this is G-ABCD, request zone transit"
Essex Radar: " Standby"
Wait anything between 30 seconds and 5 minutes.
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, squawk 1234"
Me: "Squawk 1234, G-ABCD"
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, identified 2 miles north of Audley End, pass your message"
Me: "G-ABCD, 2 miles north of Audley End, 1500ft QNH 1013, from Cambridge to North Weald, request zone transit Audley End to Great Dunmow via your overhead"
Then wait and follow instructions!
According to my logbook I've transited Stansted a total of 8 times in the last 2 years and Luton twice - I've not been denied once (yet!).
With Luton you have the prescribed lane, both times I stuck to this and it was very simple - they normally just ask you to report at each VRP and to hold short of crossing the active runway until they give you the go ahead.
With Stansted it's much more unpredictable. The key thing is they don't really like letting you in if it's a bit pointless, if you're just cutting a corner for example. However, if you need to actually get across the zone either width-ways or length-ways, they'll accommodate you if they can but do expect long periods of orbiting. I think it's useful for the controllers if you can give them a a position according to one of their VRP's so that they know exactly where you plan to enter/exit. Once I was told to hold for approx 15 mins near Audley End VRP before they finally let me in, another time I was in almost straight away but then had to orbit short of the runway for about 10 mins. Once they sent me 'over the active threshold no higher than 1500ft' and made me change to the tower controller whilst overhead (which was great!), another time they routed me over the top of Bishop's Stortford, and then through the ILS track several miles away from the runway whilst keeping me on the radar frequency only.
The key thing I always stick to which seems to work is:
Initial Call: "Essex radar, this is G-ABCD, request zone transit"
Essex Radar: " Standby"
Wait anything between 30 seconds and 5 minutes.
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, squawk 1234"
Me: "Squawk 1234, G-ABCD"
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, identified 2 miles north of Audley End, pass your message"
Me: "G-ABCD, 2 miles north of Audley End, 1500ft QNH 1013, from Cambridge to North Weald, request zone transit Audley End to Great Dunmow via your overhead"
Then wait and follow instructions!
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CAS crossing
I'm a slow aircraft pilot (the plane, not me, hopefully) and a retired ATCO. I have requested CAS crosses frequently and been refused only a couple of times over the years. However I never ask if the controller is obviously very busy and I then keep well clear of the airspace. If you can't get a word in edgeways then stay clear.
Solent are excellent, I live within the Southampton Zone and sometimes like to annoy my neighbours, I don't think I've ever been refused entry or transit. Brize have refused me in the past, but I've now got a mode S transponder which eases the situation. I also try to make the RT accurate, succinct and professional. Never had problems with Thames, Birmingham, Farnborough or EM. Getting and following ATC clearances is part of staying up to speed in the air and keeps you sharp. I don't think controllers intentionally refuse GA clearances as a matter of course. Many ATCOs, especially the older NATS ones are or were active in GA, indeed in the old days before the accountants took over, a PPL was part of the basic training course, so there is a lot of empathy out there.
Would be nice to have a few procedures like the LAX ones - popping out of the airspace just S of Imperial Hwy and turning hard left for a westerly landing at Hawthorn parallel to LAX 25L arrivals seemingly just off your wingtip is a never to be forgotten experience - but the rules and CAS in the UK are very different. Also the IFR routes into and out of LAX have the benefit of relatively much larger airspace volumes which helps to naturally segregate traffic.
Solent are excellent, I live within the Southampton Zone and sometimes like to annoy my neighbours, I don't think I've ever been refused entry or transit. Brize have refused me in the past, but I've now got a mode S transponder which eases the situation. I also try to make the RT accurate, succinct and professional. Never had problems with Thames, Birmingham, Farnborough or EM. Getting and following ATC clearances is part of staying up to speed in the air and keeps you sharp. I don't think controllers intentionally refuse GA clearances as a matter of course. Many ATCOs, especially the older NATS ones are or were active in GA, indeed in the old days before the accountants took over, a PPL was part of the basic training course, so there is a lot of empathy out there.
Would be nice to have a few procedures like the LAX ones - popping out of the airspace just S of Imperial Hwy and turning hard left for a westerly landing at Hawthorn parallel to LAX 25L arrivals seemingly just off your wingtip is a never to be forgotten experience - but the rules and CAS in the UK are very different. Also the IFR routes into and out of LAX have the benefit of relatively much larger airspace volumes which helps to naturally segregate traffic.
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Bristol (Brizzle to the natives) hasn't got much of a mention. Good to read Standard Noise's post. For the record I have always had excellent service from them. Can't remember a transit refusal.
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Never been refused personally. Luton, stansted and even svfr through egll airspace. The important thing is to sound comfident.
A few years ago I did an experiment with my instructor, on away journey I was confident on r/t and given straight away. On return leg my instructor asked for transit with a load of umms and errs and repition of same info, instantly denied the transit.
A few years ago I did an experiment with my instructor, on away journey I was confident on r/t and given straight away. On return leg my instructor asked for transit with a load of umms and errs and repition of same info, instantly denied the transit.
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I transited Stansted on my way back up North from Shoreham without a problem, a couple weeks ago. We had to hold for a few minutes, south of the airfield and then we were cleared direct over the 04 threshold, while an aircraft was inbound on the ILS. Stansted seemed very welcoming as well! Id like to stress that R/T is very important.
We initially contacted Essex Radar and asked for a zone transit. They came back with G-** continue direct towards the airfield to hold initially. After few mins of holding they passed us onto TWR and then they cleared us right over Runway 04. We then went back onto radar and then QSY on route. The transit seemed effortless and Stansted were very very helpful, as this cut our flight time down dramatically.
We initially contacted Essex Radar and asked for a zone transit. They came back with G-** continue direct towards the airfield to hold initially. After few mins of holding they passed us onto TWR and then they cleared us right over Runway 04. We then went back onto radar and then QSY on route. The transit seemed effortless and Stansted were very very helpful, as this cut our flight time down dramatically.
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Hegemon88 you started your own thread on this literally a few days ago so I'm not sure why you've posted again here, here's the reply that I took my time to write considering
Thanks to everyone for advice,
H88
