Oban/Glenforsa News
Join Date: Nov 2001
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The syndrome seems to be delusions of Gatwick or a tendency to over-engineer response to guidelines and rules. This is a British (not UK alone)disease not suffered much by the rest of the EU. For a classic example compare and contrast Guernsey with La Rochelle..........
Join Date: Dec 2006
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abgd I think piperboy84's point is that if politicians are hell-bent on pumping us all for tax then frittering it away on crap then at least it is nice for us aviation folks to enjoy the fruits of Government waste for a change instead of seeing it pissed away for no benefit of ours on the usual crap like immigrants, criminals, Europe, benefits, trams, windmills, hair-brained and warped ideologically-driven policies and ego projects, signs duplicated in Heedrum Hodrum that nobody pays attention to, computer systems that don't function properly or are just plain inadequate, foreign "aid" to rich emerging superpowers, Olympics, Methadone for junkies, need I go on.
So yes, it is nice that instead of all the scum getting all the freebies, we eventually get something to enjoy for ourselves. Because let's face it, they aren't going to stop their spending addiction
So yes, it is nice that instead of all the scum getting all the freebies, we eventually get something to enjoy for ourselves. Because let's face it, they aren't going to stop their spending addiction
I think I get Piperboy's point. I still disagree with it. Firstly, I don't believe that we are benefiting. Secondly, a waste of money is still a waste of money - even if it were to be frittered on aviation, we could think of far better ways in which to spend it.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
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we could think of far better ways in which to spend it
Exhibit A:
The Conga has billions in natural resources, we are going to give them 700M quid over 4 years in aid, at the same time the Congolese president has sold of billions of state owned diamond and other mining concessions to "businessmen" based in the British Virgin Island for pennies on the pound. An guesss who makes up the shortfall for the the destitute citizens? the usual chumps, you and me!
http://ericjoyce.co.uk/wp-content/up...ning-deals.pdf
I know its a bit off topic but when I hear the government is spending money on dubious stuff in this country, I say great, coz the money is getting spunked anyway.
Well that's my rant for the day
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
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A colleague visited Glenforsa yesterday and reported that everything seems back to normal.
DH is there as usual although the responsibility for the airfield inspection is now down to an employee who visits daily from Oban to declare the strip fit for use.
For those not familiar with the geography that will require a return trip on on the ferry and a 10 mile each way road trip. Probably takes the best part of a day!!!
D.O.
DH is there as usual although the responsibility for the airfield inspection is now down to an employee who visits daily from Oban to declare the strip fit for use.
For those not familiar with the geography that will require a return trip on on the ferry and a 10 mile each way road trip. Probably takes the best part of a day!!!
D.O.
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Don't be silly.
There are more than a few people on the island that have the experience and the knowledge to know if the runway is usable or not.
But politically they have to use a none pilot who has no experience and very little knowledge and get them to spend a day travelling there and back.
The fact that most pilots will phone the hotel anyway and if B says its not in good condition will not come what ever the Council employee says.
I can see there could be a conflict of interest with punters for the hotel but I think the hotel is in there for the long term. And its not in their interest to risk the airfields status.
There are more than a few people on the island that have the experience and the knowledge to know if the runway is usable or not.
But politically they have to use a none pilot who has no experience and very little knowledge and get them to spend a day travelling there and back.
The fact that most pilots will phone the hotel anyway and if B says its not in good condition will not come what ever the Council employee says.
I can see there could be a conflict of interest with punters for the hotel but I think the hotel is in there for the long term. And its not in their interest to risk the airfields status.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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At least it's open
Lets not winge too much about who does the inspection or where he comes from, because at least the airfield's open. In this day and age with the media running the show, and the banning brigade in full swing it's a miracle that it's back to business again.
With a group of three other aeroplanes I flew into Glenforsa last year and stayed two nights in the hotel, whilst flying round the islands during the day. I was thrilled to land our Piper Arrow on the beach at Barra and later at Oban where the Airfield fire service very kindly rinsed the salt off for us.
I have to say that after reading some awful verbal attacks on these guys at Oban airport here on this forum, I'm amazed that they could even be bothered to wish us the time of day.
But no, they were the nicest people you could ever want to meet going way beyond the call of duty. Later, when one Cessna from our team burst a tyre on landing and couldn't taxi off the runway, they put their backs into it (literally) and got the aircraft into a safe position and then helped to remove the wheel so we could get it repaired the next day.
So I'm not accepting any bad mouthing of the people at Oban airport. The politicians are fair game for complaint, but not the people who simply do their job at the airport.
I'll finish by saying just what a wonderful time we all had on our (at times IMC)
tour of the islands. Many thanks to Brendan and Allison who looked after us most splendidly and thank you very much Scotland!!
With a group of three other aeroplanes I flew into Glenforsa last year and stayed two nights in the hotel, whilst flying round the islands during the day. I was thrilled to land our Piper Arrow on the beach at Barra and later at Oban where the Airfield fire service very kindly rinsed the salt off for us.
I have to say that after reading some awful verbal attacks on these guys at Oban airport here on this forum, I'm amazed that they could even be bothered to wish us the time of day.
But no, they were the nicest people you could ever want to meet going way beyond the call of duty. Later, when one Cessna from our team burst a tyre on landing and couldn't taxi off the runway, they put their backs into it (literally) and got the aircraft into a safe position and then helped to remove the wheel so we could get it repaired the next day.
So I'm not accepting any bad mouthing of the people at Oban airport. The politicians are fair game for complaint, but not the people who simply do their job at the airport.
I'll finish by saying just what a wonderful time we all had on our (at times IMC)
tour of the islands. Many thanks to Brendan and Allison who looked after us most splendidly and thank you very much Scotland!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Glenforsa Mull
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Glenforsa Airfield
To be fair, the Council Guys (graves dept) only come from Tobermory every Morning to inspect the runway, a 22 mile round trip. They were trained by Tom Eddlestone who is the Chief Fire Officer at Oban Airport.
OGF
OGF
Last edited by The Original GF; 7th Apr 2013 at 08:46.
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To be honest that's more than likely the best council employees to have a clue about grass and being able to get vehicles on grass without getting them stuck. One of my diving mates at Uni used to work with them during the summer holidays years ago. You don't want to take them on at drinking whisky!.
I suspect they would have had more clue than the fire services at a hard runway airport anyway even without "training".
I suspect they would have had more clue than the fire services at a hard runway airport anyway even without "training".
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Glenforsa PPR from the Council?
I was dismayed to learn from various aviation forum sources that the AGCS operator at Glenforsa is apparently no longer allowed to use the published radio frequency. Bearing in mind that while all airfields are inspected in the morning (debris, ruts,rabbit holes, wind socks, obstructions, etc.), flying conditions can change drastically during the day possibly later rendering them unsafe for aircraft to land. Current advice can be critical for safe operation and this MUSTbe given on the radio if conditions warrant it. Also, a pilot departing needs to know that his radio is working prior to taking off as his next call would normally be to Oban or Scottish Information as he proceeds en-route and this would not be possible if his radio or headset had failed or was not working correctly on the ground.
I realise that Glenforsa ispublished everywhere in general aviation documentation as PPR (Prior PermissionRequired and this has always has been so from Mr. Howitt), and now additionally from theCouncil, but with all due respect, unless the Council has a person who is aware of the aviation implications for any particular airfield, this PPR could be completely misleading and potentially dangerous.
For example, regarding to the“accident” last September, a totally satisfactory morning airfield inspection would have had absolutely no bearing at all on the extremely poor airmanship of the pilot who crashed regardless of ANY advice given. Glenforsa has definitely suffered through no fault of its own due to the pilot’s mistake (or incompetence).
Before I personally fly in to Glenforsa again I would like comments and re-assurance as to the qualifications of exactly who in the Council can give “current aviation conditions” to me (or any other pilot) other than someone who may have inspected the runway many hours earlier.
I realise that Glenforsa ispublished everywhere in general aviation documentation as PPR (Prior PermissionRequired and this has always has been so from Mr. Howitt), and now additionally from theCouncil, but with all due respect, unless the Council has a person who is aware of the aviation implications for any particular airfield, this PPR could be completely misleading and potentially dangerous.
For example, regarding to the“accident” last September, a totally satisfactory morning airfield inspection would have had absolutely no bearing at all on the extremely poor airmanship of the pilot who crashed regardless of ANY advice given. Glenforsa has definitely suffered through no fault of its own due to the pilot’s mistake (or incompetence).
Before I personally fly in to Glenforsa again I would like comments and re-assurance as to the qualifications of exactly who in the Council can give “current aviation conditions” to me (or any other pilot) other than someone who may have inspected the runway many hours earlier.
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Glenforsa Follies
crt86t
While I completely agree that PPR should be given by someone with aviation experience, I find your forthright views on the 'accident' interesting.
Were you present when the accident happened?
Did you hear the A/G transmission leading up to the accident or have you heard the recording of same?
Are your opinions based on the accident report produced by DH and Tom Eddlestone Chief Fire Officer at Oban Airport?
WW
While I completely agree that PPR should be given by someone with aviation experience, I find your forthright views on the 'accident' interesting.
Were you present when the accident happened?
Did you hear the A/G transmission leading up to the accident or have you heard the recording of same?
Are your opinions based on the accident report produced by DH and Tom Eddlestone Chief Fire Officer at Oban Airport?
WW
Flying into Ashaig (Broadford), the PPR is with a Highland Council Roads Dept. office person. Flying into Dornoch, no PPR. The weather conditions are the pilot's responsibility.
No one at an airfield will know the currency/skill/tiredness of an arriving pilot.
An A/G operator should have no responsibility for an accident unless he failed to warn of an obstruction he knew of.
However a US court decision against a Cessna Carb. maker, (in a current thread on the Rumours & News Forum -Jury awards $26 million to families of Arlington plane crash victims) gives reason for whoever cover A&B for third party risks to be paranoid.
No one at an airfield will know the currency/skill/tiredness of an arriving pilot.
An A/G operator should have no responsibility for an accident unless he failed to warn of an obstruction he knew of.
However a US court decision against a Cessna Carb. maker, (in a current thread on the Rumours & News Forum -Jury awards $26 million to families of Arlington plane crash victims) gives reason for whoever cover A&B for third party risks to be paranoid.
Last edited by Maoraigh1; 9th Apr 2013 at 20:38. Reason: Addition
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Whilst there are many scare stories regarding liability insurance they are just that at least in the UK.
Insurance for grass strips is still 'relatively' affordable. Which tells you that the claim history is very modest, insurance companies are very quick to respond to losing money by jacking up premiums!
I read the AAIB report on this 'accident', given the lack of injuries it is the usual pilot commentry and looks like a classic wheel barrow landing following a bounce.
ABC's response is pretty typical of ABC, close the airfield, train 7 (yes 7!) people to carry out airfield inspections and generally ensure that no blame can ever be pointed at anyone....
Given the Oban fiasco it would be wishful thinking to expect anything else. As far as having to have a/g at Mull? Well we never used to! Over recent years DH has become very cautious in his advice - having seen tired or inept pilots make very lurid arrivals and depatures. Does a/g add a lot? If you know the place or understand the crosswind issues no, otherwise it must help. But that means ABC would have to support some form of decision - so it is not going to happen.
I would love ABC to end up leasing the strip to the hotel as part of their plan for a sustainable future for the strip - but given the politics I do n't suppose that will happen. Still at least the strip is open for the moment - given the general situation it is probably the best we can hope for......
Insurance for grass strips is still 'relatively' affordable. Which tells you that the claim history is very modest, insurance companies are very quick to respond to losing money by jacking up premiums!
I read the AAIB report on this 'accident', given the lack of injuries it is the usual pilot commentry and looks like a classic wheel barrow landing following a bounce.
ABC's response is pretty typical of ABC, close the airfield, train 7 (yes 7!) people to carry out airfield inspections and generally ensure that no blame can ever be pointed at anyone....
Given the Oban fiasco it would be wishful thinking to expect anything else. As far as having to have a/g at Mull? Well we never used to! Over recent years DH has become very cautious in his advice - having seen tired or inept pilots make very lurid arrivals and depatures. Does a/g add a lot? If you know the place or understand the crosswind issues no, otherwise it must help. But that means ABC would have to support some form of decision - so it is not going to happen.
I would love ABC to end up leasing the strip to the hotel as part of their plan for a sustainable future for the strip - but given the politics I do n't suppose that will happen. Still at least the strip is open for the moment - given the general situation it is probably the best we can hope for......
Originally Posted by Maoraigh1
However a US court decision against a Cessna Carb. maker, (in a current thread on the Rumours & News Forum -Jury awards $26 million to families of Arlington plane crash victims) gives reason for whoever cover A&B for third party risks to be paranoid.
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Oban/ Glenforsa Follies
Does a/g add a lot?
And plundering the public purse to pay council workers to drive their van up and down the runway at Glenforsa every morning while getting paid double and triple time on weekends and bank holidays does not add anything either.
It's a real shame that there is no one in Argyll and Bute Council or the Scottish Goverment who have the balls to put an end to this clusterf***k.
WW
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If A&BC think that by stopping David transmitting on VHF is going to be some kind of arse covering exercise they are wrong.
My buddies nearly all have those fancy headsets with bluetooth. They can just phone him.
D.O.
My buddies nearly all have those fancy headsets with bluetooth. They can just phone him.
D.O.