5 day Gliding Course
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Well worth considering Derby & Lancs GC in the Peak District.
I've done 3 such courses there over the years and can thoroughly recommend it!
SD
I've done 3 such courses there over the years and can thoroughly recommend it!
SD
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Any site on top of a ridge tends to meet cloudbase quicker than sites at the bottom!
SD
Join Date: Oct 2000
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how basic is too basic?
The "Lasham Hilton" may be basic, but what more do you really need than a bed, wardrobe, mirror, sink, shower, toilet and heating anyway? Genuine question; I hear people complain about bunkrooms all the time - do I just have low standards?
Of course, on a good course you're only going to be flying, sleeping, eating drinking or complaining about the weather anyway.
Of course, on a good course you're only going to be flying, sleeping, eating drinking or complaining about the weather anyway.
Join Date: May 2005
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I've not flown at all these sites, but have feedback from those who have and from my own research. I'd say your list is a good one:
Lasham
Bristol & Gloucestershire Gliding Club
Yorkshire Gliding Club
Wolds
and I'd definitely add Midland (Long Mynd, Shropshire) and Shenington (both from personal experience).
In making your decision, consider the following:
1. Winch or aerotow? Yorkshire (Sutton Bank) will only winch if the ridge is working, and then only gentle launches to lob you into lift. The rest of the time is aerotow. Conversely, the Mynd courses are almost exclusively winch - there may not be a tug available mid-week. B&G are primarily winch as well. Lasham, Wolds and Shenington will offer you both most days (every day for Lasham).
2. Organisation. Do you want a course where you'll be organised quite precisely, in which case Lasham and the Mynd (and possibly Sutton Bank) are for you. If you want to have a discussion each morning with the instructor to improvise what's happening, then I'd guess Wolds and Shenington operate more that way. Not yet flown at B&G, but flew a couple of years ago with Don Puttock, their f/t instructor, and it would be worth going there just to learn the ridges with him - but maybe this is more for the experienced glider pilot than the tyro, as Don loves the "soft" days when you need to shave the tips off the long grass on the ridge with your wingtips.
3. Hill or flatland? If it's windy (in the right direction) then hilltop sites are great. If the wind's in the wrong direction, the cloudbase can be so low over the hill that it's not really flyable. No way to tell this when you book, but I'd say the flatter sites (i.e. not Mynd or Sutton Bank) are more predictable, but when they're good the hilltop sites are excellent.
4. How keen are you on runways? Wolds has real ex WW2 runways and three of them, all in good nick, plus you can land in the middle. I believe Lasham is similarly blessed. Sutton Bank is strongly sloping grass, more of a long field on top of the ridge. The Mynd is a piece of moorland, with some landable bits in it, mainly bowls. B&G I haven't flown at, but believe it's fairly flat grass and pretty big - no runways really, so choose a good bit to land on. Shenington has the remains of runways but is mainly grass and flat.
5. Where will you sleep and eat? The rooms at the Mynd are good, and the catering is good as well. Sutton Bank has good rooms but self-catering when I was there. Shenington has a bunk room - I preferred a tent; self-catering and good local pubs. Wolds I believe has decent rooms, but I haven't tried them. All of these have good bars (I liked Shenington's the best). Don't know the others.
6. What will you do on non-flying days? Wolds is near York, Sutton Bank on the N York Moors, at Shenington you can tour Cotswold villages, Mynd tour Shropshire pubs. B&G is quite near Bath I think. Lasham offers you Basingstoke, but there may be more around there than I know.
One other option to look at is Black Mountain at Talgarth, just west of Hay on Wye. The only option on site is to camp and the airfield is an oversize crown bowling green, so if you can land there you can cope almost anywhere. In one direction, excess approach speed results in a touch and go and a landing in the valley (in the others, probably a crash). But, if the ridges are working (and they work in most wind directions) you can have some amazing flying. Fly at a mountain, turn to parallel it, and it's like being in an elevator as you pop up over the top. If the sheep don't scatter you're not close enough. In bad weather, all you can do is buy second-hand books in Hay or go to Hereford.
If this is your first time gliding and you're an average pilot, then you might find Lasham, Wolds or Shenington easiest. Landing at Sutton Bank or the Mynd is a challenge for a flatland glider pilot, let alone someone who's not flown a glider before. If you relish the challenge, then Sutton Bank, Mynd and Talgarth are extremely interesting places to fly.
I know, or am reliably told, that all these are really friendly places except possibly Lasham - Lasham is the Heathrow of the gliding world, and I believe it can be rather intimidating. However, if you're on a course you'll be professionally looked after, and some of the opinions I've received are from pilots at small clubs who found Lasham not to their taste - with any luck, soneone who's flown on a course there can post here about how enjoyable they found it.
Whichever you choose, I hope you have brilliant weather and a great time.
Lasham
Bristol & Gloucestershire Gliding Club
Yorkshire Gliding Club
Wolds
and I'd definitely add Midland (Long Mynd, Shropshire) and Shenington (both from personal experience).
In making your decision, consider the following:
1. Winch or aerotow? Yorkshire (Sutton Bank) will only winch if the ridge is working, and then only gentle launches to lob you into lift. The rest of the time is aerotow. Conversely, the Mynd courses are almost exclusively winch - there may not be a tug available mid-week. B&G are primarily winch as well. Lasham, Wolds and Shenington will offer you both most days (every day for Lasham).
2. Organisation. Do you want a course where you'll be organised quite precisely, in which case Lasham and the Mynd (and possibly Sutton Bank) are for you. If you want to have a discussion each morning with the instructor to improvise what's happening, then I'd guess Wolds and Shenington operate more that way. Not yet flown at B&G, but flew a couple of years ago with Don Puttock, their f/t instructor, and it would be worth going there just to learn the ridges with him - but maybe this is more for the experienced glider pilot than the tyro, as Don loves the "soft" days when you need to shave the tips off the long grass on the ridge with your wingtips.
3. Hill or flatland? If it's windy (in the right direction) then hilltop sites are great. If the wind's in the wrong direction, the cloudbase can be so low over the hill that it's not really flyable. No way to tell this when you book, but I'd say the flatter sites (i.e. not Mynd or Sutton Bank) are more predictable, but when they're good the hilltop sites are excellent.
4. How keen are you on runways? Wolds has real ex WW2 runways and three of them, all in good nick, plus you can land in the middle. I believe Lasham is similarly blessed. Sutton Bank is strongly sloping grass, more of a long field on top of the ridge. The Mynd is a piece of moorland, with some landable bits in it, mainly bowls. B&G I haven't flown at, but believe it's fairly flat grass and pretty big - no runways really, so choose a good bit to land on. Shenington has the remains of runways but is mainly grass and flat.
5. Where will you sleep and eat? The rooms at the Mynd are good, and the catering is good as well. Sutton Bank has good rooms but self-catering when I was there. Shenington has a bunk room - I preferred a tent; self-catering and good local pubs. Wolds I believe has decent rooms, but I haven't tried them. All of these have good bars (I liked Shenington's the best). Don't know the others.
6. What will you do on non-flying days? Wolds is near York, Sutton Bank on the N York Moors, at Shenington you can tour Cotswold villages, Mynd tour Shropshire pubs. B&G is quite near Bath I think. Lasham offers you Basingstoke, but there may be more around there than I know.
One other option to look at is Black Mountain at Talgarth, just west of Hay on Wye. The only option on site is to camp and the airfield is an oversize crown bowling green, so if you can land there you can cope almost anywhere. In one direction, excess approach speed results in a touch and go and a landing in the valley (in the others, probably a crash). But, if the ridges are working (and they work in most wind directions) you can have some amazing flying. Fly at a mountain, turn to parallel it, and it's like being in an elevator as you pop up over the top. If the sheep don't scatter you're not close enough. In bad weather, all you can do is buy second-hand books in Hay or go to Hereford.
If this is your first time gliding and you're an average pilot, then you might find Lasham, Wolds or Shenington easiest. Landing at Sutton Bank or the Mynd is a challenge for a flatland glider pilot, let alone someone who's not flown a glider before. If you relish the challenge, then Sutton Bank, Mynd and Talgarth are extremely interesting places to fly.
I know, or am reliably told, that all these are really friendly places except possibly Lasham - Lasham is the Heathrow of the gliding world, and I believe it can be rather intimidating. However, if you're on a course you'll be professionally looked after, and some of the opinions I've received are from pilots at small clubs who found Lasham not to their taste - with any luck, soneone who's flown on a course there can post here about how enjoyable they found it.
Whichever you choose, I hope you have brilliant weather and a great time.
Join Date: May 2002
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Lasham Hilton, never heard it called that before, helps if you use the bar before you stay there, makes it seem not too bad then, and yep G103 you do have low standards.
Lasham can seem a bit unfriendly to a new visitor, but thats really due to the size of the club, once past that its a great place to fly, very aviation minded and very friendly, check out the website Lasham.org.uk, PM me and if you want to come down and have a look around can sort out a date and a time, gets you past our doctors receptionists.
Lasham can seem a bit unfriendly to a new visitor, but thats really due to the size of the club, once past that its a great place to fly, very aviation minded and very friendly, check out the website Lasham.org.uk, PM me and if you want to come down and have a look around can sort out a date and a time, gets you past our doctors receptionists.
Last edited by Tugpilotsmiffy; 4th Mar 2008 at 22:10. Reason: Wanted to add a few more comments without adding a new post to the thread
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The room was warm enough for me (I like a cool room to sleep in), but there was only a trickle of slightly tepid water for a shower - no hot water in the showers in the main building last time I was there. I stayed there in August for 2 weeks but in my tent. Catering is ace though.
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Maybe what kind of site depends on what time of year and what bit of the country.
The other thought is that all the debate about the trickyness of landing at various sites is a bit surpurlous. If they don't get solo they will always have an instructor in the back seat, if they do the instructor will have seen to it they know the local 'wrinkles'.
I don't think the OP has said anything about the experience of his group of friends. I sort of assumed that since he was asking advice they are all ab initios.
Do hilltop sites still use bungee launches? I did a course at the Midland GC many years ago and, as long as the wind was on the hill, we used the bungee. A very simple way of enjoying instant flying.
It is also the only place where I have done a touch and go in a glider. I came in much too fast, touched down, and then the instructor closed the brakes and we took off back into the hill lift for another, more successful attempt.
It is also the only place where I have done a touch and go in a glider. I came in much too fast, touched down, and then the instructor closed the brakes and we took off back into the hill lift for another, more successful attempt.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Can I recommend (biased opinion as I am a member) the Gliding Centre at Husbands Bosworth airfield (www.theglidingcentre.co.uk). The club operates from a large grass runway with easy approaches which should help a power pilot used to flying a circuit around rectangular airfields to progress quickly (planning/flying the circuit is one of the biggest challenges in learning to glide). We have a good range of training aircraft (2x K21 for basic training, 1 x Puchacz for spin/stall training and 1x Duo Discus to appreciate the delights of flying an aerodynamically efficient glider) plus a modern motor glider and launches via both winch and aerotow (it’s an experience in and of itself to be towed into the air by a Chipmunk). The club offers fairly decent accommodation in private rooms on site with good catering and bar.
To answer Backpacker’s question which has not been answered yet, I would think a power trained pilot of 100 plus hours could reach, given a full five days of flying, solo standard and be experiencing the challenge of local soaring but I guess it all hinges on the individual’s confidence and ability to learn. For books to read, I would recommend both of Ken Stewart’s books “The Glider Pilots Manual” and the “Soaring Manual”. The first concentrates on how to fly a glider assuming no knowledge with a basic appreciation of soaring theory, the second covers soaring techniques in more depth with plenty of real world examples from the author’s gliding career. I would also recommend Philip Will’s books published in the fifties “On being a bird” and “Where no birds fly” as he is an author who can really describe the joys of soaring flight (not an easy thing to do as words often fail to express the challenge).
To answer Backpacker’s question which has not been answered yet, I would think a power trained pilot of 100 plus hours could reach, given a full five days of flying, solo standard and be experiencing the challenge of local soaring but I guess it all hinges on the individual’s confidence and ability to learn. For books to read, I would recommend both of Ken Stewart’s books “The Glider Pilots Manual” and the “Soaring Manual”. The first concentrates on how to fly a glider assuming no knowledge with a basic appreciation of soaring theory, the second covers soaring techniques in more depth with plenty of real world examples from the author’s gliding career. I would also recommend Philip Will’s books published in the fifties “On being a bird” and “Where no birds fly” as he is an author who can really describe the joys of soaring flight (not an easy thing to do as words often fail to express the challenge).
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cats_five wrote:
From the fact that the question was asked here I assumed (might be wrong) that they were all PPLs or in training. If so, I thought it might be a little dispiriting to take a 5-day course and never feel you were on top of the landing! My first two landings at the Mynd were "adequate", in that we could re-use the aircraft, but compared to my landings at flatland sites they were distinctly untidy.
If the group are all brand new to aviation then they have nothing different to compare it with, so it wouldn't be an issue. Similarly if they are all pretty experienced, then the hilltop sites will be an interesting challenge. My thought was that for those in between it might possibly be a relevant factor, though not the most important one, in feeling they got the most out of their course.
I'd say any of these would be good places to go for a course, so I was just trying to give some information which would help them make their choice.
The other thought is that all the debate about the trickyness of landing at various sites is a bit surpurlous. If they don't get solo they will always have an instructor in the back seat, if they do the instructor will have seen to it they know the local 'wrinkles'.
If the group are all brand new to aviation then they have nothing different to compare it with, so it wouldn't be an issue. Similarly if they are all pretty experienced, then the hilltop sites will be an interesting challenge. My thought was that for those in between it might possibly be a relevant factor, though not the most important one, in feeling they got the most out of their course.
I'd say any of these would be good places to go for a course, so I was just trying to give some information which would help them make their choice.
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<snip>I thought it might be a little dispiriting to take a 5-day course and never feel you were on top of the landing! My first two landings at the Mynd were "adequate", in that we could re-use the aircraft, but compared to my landings at flatland sites they were distinctly untidy.
<snip>
<snip>
When I feel it gets tricky is if someone from a site at the bottom of a ridge goes to a hilltop site (looks down, lots of height below, then looks at the reference area and
, sudden change of plan), or vice versa.I'd also imagine a PPL-type person might find the concept of no engine, no go-around quite entertaining...
At Derbyshire and Lancashire Gliding Club we get lift from thermal, ridge and wave. If it's not flyable we have a simulator.
We also have the best bar in UK gliding, on-site catering and accomodation.
Mid week you will be made welcome by an entertaining group of old f*rts who's bullsh*t tales of derring do will keep you amused for hours.
We also have the best bar in UK gliding, on-site catering and accomodation.
Mid week you will be made welcome by an entertaining group of old f*rts who's bullsh*t tales of derring do will keep you amused for hours.
Last edited by snapper1; 5th Mar 2008 at 14:39.
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I'd also imagine a PPL-type person might find the concept of no engine, no go-around quite entertaining...
The other thing is a different undercarriage. No nosewheel but this center-thingy on which you've got to balance the plane sounds interesting too. Fortunately with a glider you don't have these long taxis down a 1500 meter runway.
And I'll probably miss a cockpit filled with electric thingies that show you where you are or shows others who you are, or go beep at various times. And I imagine the checklist in a glider in general is a tad shorter than in a powered plane.
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The other thing is a different undercarriage. No nosewheel but this center-thingy on which you've got to balance the plane sounds interesting too. Fortunately with a glider you don't have these long taxis down a 1500 meter runway.
And I'll probably miss a cockpit filled with electric thingies that show you where you are or shows others who you are, or go beep at various times. And I imagine the checklist in a glider in general is a tad shorter than in a powered plane.
The checklist is CBSIFTCBE -I imagine it is shorter as there's nothing to do with checking fuel & engine sort of things!
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CBSIFTCBE
There are also a couple of strange things you work with your feet, and the instructor sits behind you so he/she can't give your knee a friendly squeeze. However it's an ideal place to for him/her to beat you over the head from!
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Backpacker:
For all practical purposes until you set off cross country you have only three instruments:
ASI - no use on aerotow because you're going where the tug goes. Rather important when winching. Needed on approach. The rest of the time don't look at it.
Altimeter - needed to know when your aerotow is over, and to work out whether you can get back to the airfield, and if your site is near airspace. Not needed for flying circuits (if you start using it, the instructor will cover it up).
Variometer - just listen, don't look at the stupid needle.
99% of the time lookout and fly what you see. You'll learn far faster as well.
And I'll probably miss a cockpit filled with electric thingies that show you where you are or shows others who you are, or go beep at various times. And I imagine the checklist in a glider in general is a tad shorter than in a powered plane.
ASI - no use on aerotow because you're going where the tug goes. Rather important when winching. Needed on approach. The rest of the time don't look at it.
Altimeter - needed to know when your aerotow is over, and to work out whether you can get back to the airfield, and if your site is near airspace. Not needed for flying circuits (if you start using it, the instructor will cover it up).
Variometer - just listen, don't look at the stupid needle.
99% of the time lookout and fly what you see. You'll learn far faster as well.
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Eventualities
Well I do tell pupils "Always be pleasantly surprised when you successfully get to the top of the launch"
But then 99% of the time there is an eventuality it's me pulling the release lower down. Hee hee, now sort that one out
Instructors have to get their amusement somewhere!
Well I do tell pupils "Always be pleasantly surprised when you successfully get to the top of the launch"
But then 99% of the time there is an eventuality it's me pulling the release lower down. Hee hee, now sort that one out
Instructors have to get their amusement somewhere!