Jar Ppl/meir - Smlg Rating Required?
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Jar Ppl/meir - Smlg Rating Required?
Dear fellow Pruners - I am planning to join a Grob 109b group which can either be a SMLG or TMG in terms of its rating. As above i have PPL/MEIR with over 200 hours, do i need to get further rating to fly in Grob?
I have checked Lazors but my tired brain cant make head nor tail of the grueling texts. If rting is required as i suspect it might be, does that count also as tailwheel convrsion?
Any feedback gratefully recieved as always!
I have checked Lazors but my tired brain cant make head nor tail of the grueling texts. If rting is required as i suspect it might be, does that count also as tailwheel convrsion?
Any feedback gratefully recieved as always!
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You are absolutely right about a Grob 109b being either a TMG or an SLMG.
What it is to YOU depends on the licence you hold. Sounds like you have a JAA PPL in which case you would need a TMG Class Rating. If you had an NPPL, then you would get an SLMG Class Rating.
Depending on how many SEP hours you have, the CAA will probably GIVE you (in exchange for about £80) a TMG class rating.
Once you have a TMG class rating, your TMG hours will count towards the hours you need to revalidate your SEP (Land) class rating on the basis of experience. When you revalidate your SEP, the examiner will be able to revalidate your TMG at the same time.
Although the 109b initially appears to be quite a simple aircraft, it is probably quite different to anything you have ever flown before - so a proper checkout with someone who knows what they're doing is a must
Any queries PM me
What it is to YOU depends on the licence you hold. Sounds like you have a JAA PPL in which case you would need a TMG Class Rating. If you had an NPPL, then you would get an SLMG Class Rating.
Depending on how many SEP hours you have, the CAA will probably GIVE you (in exchange for about £80) a TMG class rating.
Once you have a TMG class rating, your TMG hours will count towards the hours you need to revalidate your SEP (Land) class rating on the basis of experience. When you revalidate your SEP, the examiner will be able to revalidate your TMG at the same time.
Although the 109b initially appears to be quite a simple aircraft, it is probably quite different to anything you have ever flown before - so a proper checkout with someone who knows what they're doing is a must
Any queries PM me
In order to get a TMG Class rating you need to pass a Skill Test on a TMG and apply for the class rating. If you have a SLMG class rating on your licence then you need to obtain a Certificate of Test in order to activate it.
If you wish to be able to count motor glider time towards revalidation requirements for the SEP Class Rating, you need a JAR-FCL TMG Class Rating - which requires you to pass a LST on TMGs with an appropriately qualified Examiner.
You will then be able to count all flight time on either SEP or TMG Class aeroplanes towrds the revalidation of both Class Ratings.
If this is of no concern and you don't wish to take a test, you can fly the aircraft as a SLMG, subject to completion of appropriate differences training, by exercise the privileges of the SEP Class Rating included in your licence on SLMGs. This diffrences training must be with a Flight Instructor holding a TMG rating or Motor Glider Instructor rating. However, any experience gained in SLMGs cannot then be counted towards SEP revalidation requirements.
So,
If you want to be able to count hours on either Class towards the revalidation of both, take the LST and obtain a TMG Class Rating.
If you don't wish to count the hours in this way, just do some differences training. No test, no additional Class Rating and no CAA fee...... Although if you really want the words 'SLMG Class Rating' in your licence, you can elect to apply to the CAA for a SLMG Class Rating to be included in your licence. Why would you do this? Perhaps if you have no further intention of flying a SEP Class aeroplane - such as an airline pilot who just wants to potter about in a SLMG for fun.
You will then be able to count all flight time on either SEP or TMG Class aeroplanes towrds the revalidation of both Class Ratings.
If this is of no concern and you don't wish to take a test, you can fly the aircraft as a SLMG, subject to completion of appropriate differences training, by exercise the privileges of the SEP Class Rating included in your licence on SLMGs. This diffrences training must be with a Flight Instructor holding a TMG rating or Motor Glider Instructor rating. However, any experience gained in SLMGs cannot then be counted towards SEP revalidation requirements.
So,
If you want to be able to count hours on either Class towards the revalidation of both, take the LST and obtain a TMG Class Rating.
If you don't wish to count the hours in this way, just do some differences training. No test, no additional Class Rating and no CAA fee...... Although if you really want the words 'SLMG Class Rating' in your licence, you can elect to apply to the CAA for a SLMG Class Rating to be included in your licence. Why would you do this? Perhaps if you have no further intention of flying a SEP Class aeroplane - such as an airline pilot who just wants to potter about in a SLMG for fun.
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Thankyou both very much - So i didnt know probably was a word that existed in CAA land 
I have around 150 hours SEP, i dont know whether i have SMLG as default as working away from home and havent license on me. I have done quite a few hours on gliders years ago, so used to substantial differences (with practise again)!
If they did issue me a TMG rating - i dont have any tailwheel rating atall which surely i would need?
Seems you have slightly contradictory views on this - any ideas where the confusion might lie?
I have around 150 hours SEP, i dont know whether i have SMLG as default as working away from home and havent license on me. I have done quite a few hours on gliders years ago, so used to substantial differences (with practise again)!
If they did issue me a TMG rating - i dont have any tailwheel rating atall which surely i would need?
Seems you have slightly contradictory views on this - any ideas where the confusion might lie?
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So it seems quite clear then just a simple differences training is required in the short term. I can log these hours but doesnt count to SEP revalidation until i sit the TMG skills test for class rating.
Being ignorant, what is involved with LMT?
It is never straight forward with these things is it!
Thankyou again for you time in replying.
Being ignorant, what is involved with LMT?
It is never straight forward with these things is it!
Thankyou again for you time in replying.
See http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/DOC%2014%20V5%20.pdf section 7.
Basically it seems to be identical in format to a SEP Class Rating renewal LST - but flown in a TMG.
Basically it seems to be identical in format to a SEP Class Rating renewal LST - but flown in a TMG.
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I know that this has been asked before, but I'm afraid I can't find a definitive answer. If I pass a TMG class rating test, I get a TMG class rating added to my licence which will be valid for two years from the date of test - but this expiry date will be different from the expiry date of my SEP rating. It would obviously be convenient from a renewal point of view to have them expire together. Is it possible to renew a rating by experience early - when the other one expires? Is there another, better way of going about this?
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OK and I have another question:
I have a Valid JAR PPL with an expired SEP rating (by a few months). What do I need to do to add an SLMG to my licence ??
No one where I am training seems to be able to answer that one. They are just telling me to take a TMG rating with an examiner (although they don't have one on site)............
Or do I just revalidate my SEP and then apply for an SLMG ------- arrgh
Why are we all so individual !!!!!
Arc
I have a Valid JAR PPL with an expired SEP rating (by a few months). What do I need to do to add an SLMG to my licence ??
No one where I am training seems to be able to answer that one. They are just telling me to take a TMG rating with an examiner (although they don't have one on site)............
Or do I just revalidate my SEP and then apply for an SLMG ------- arrgh
Why are we all so individual !!!!!
Arc
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You can't add a SLMG class rating to a JAA PPL - you would need to get a TMG class rating - which you would get by doing a TMG skills test.
An SLMG class rating can be added to an NPPL.
To fly SEP aircraft you will need to RENEW your SEP class rating by taking an SEP skills test (renewal as opposed to revalidation because your rating has expired) with an examiner.
Once you have your renewed your SEP class rating and got yourself a TMG class rating, hours flown in EITHER will count towards the revalidation of both.
Confused?
An SLMG class rating can be added to an NPPL.
To fly SEP aircraft you will need to RENEW your SEP class rating by taking an SEP skills test (renewal as opposed to revalidation because your rating has expired) with an examiner.
Once you have your renewed your SEP class rating and got yourself a TMG class rating, hours flown in EITHER will count towards the revalidation of both.
Confused?
It really isn't that difficult...
If you wish to fly a SLMG, in your case you have 3 options:
1. Maintain a valid SEP Class Rating and exercise SLMG privileges by taking relevant differences training.
2. Add a TMG Class Rating by passing a TMG Class Rating Skill Test.
3. Forget all about JAR-FCL and obtain a NPPL with SLMG Class Rating. See the NPPL website to find out how to convert your licence.
If you wish to fly a SLMG, in your case you have 3 options:
1. Maintain a valid SEP Class Rating and exercise SLMG privileges by taking relevant differences training.
2. Add a TMG Class Rating by passing a TMG Class Rating Skill Test.
3. Forget all about JAR-FCL and obtain a NPPL with SLMG Class Rating. See the NPPL website to find out how to convert your licence.
