slingsby firefly
Great read, thanks. More than anything, that report explains the importance of following the spin recovery technique, or it isn't going to stop. It echo's what I was taught, but never with the context behind it.
The throttle part is interesting - it suggests an easy entry in to another spin in the opposite direction unless you are quick off the rudder. Also recovery from an inverted spin can be achieved by merely centralising the stick, not requiring opposite rudder and stick back.
I miss flying - I hope it's not thirteen years !!!!
The throttle part is interesting - it suggests an easy entry in to another spin in the opposite direction unless you are quick off the rudder. Also recovery from an inverted spin can be achieved by merely centralising the stick, not requiring opposite rudder and stick back.
I miss flying - I hope it's not thirteen years !!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I do believe that we were operating the aircraft with the CG beyond the aft limit which would make the aircraft more unstable and more likely to enter and remain in a spin.
[...]
The more I learn about the T67 the more I realize the Air Force did a crappy job of developing the operating manual and the training syllabus for the instructors and the cadets.
[...]
The more I learn about the T67 the more I realize the Air Force did a crappy job of developing the operating manual and the training syllabus for the instructors and the cadets.
Sadly the "crappy job" robrob refers to resulted in multiple fatal accidents and wrecked the reputation of a very capable aerobatic initial trainer aircraft.
In my opinion, the Firefly's biggest weakness is that it is too easy to fly (and to aerobat) most of the time, imbuing pilots with confidence not matched by their competence. This results in them taking risks they don't understand and aren't capable of handling, giving an accident rate which is higher than some other aircraft, but it is lower than others, and is comparable with most other aerobatic types which are used primarily for aerobatics (i.e. discounting the C152Aerobat which is seldom aerobatted).
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Having once stalled my T67M Mk-II with the CofG at (but not beyond) the aft limit, I can confirm that the behaviour is MASSIVELY different to even a few millimeters further forward, and I will not be repeating the experiment. I would not want to spin the aircraft with an aft CofG, but I am quite happy spinning it elsewhere in the W&B/CofG envelope.
Sadly the "crappy job" robrob refers to resulted in multiple fatal accidents and wrecked the reputation of a very capable aerobatic initial trainer aircraft.
In my opinion, the Firefly's biggest weakness is that it is too easy to fly (and to aerobat) most of the time, imbuing pilots with confidence not matched by their competence. This results in them taking risks they don't understand and aren't capable of handling, giving an accident rate which is higher than some other aircraft, but it is lower than others, and is comparable with most other aerobatic types which are used primarily for aerobatics (i.e. discounting the C152Aerobat which is seldom aerobatted).
Sadly the "crappy job" robrob refers to resulted in multiple fatal accidents and wrecked the reputation of a very capable aerobatic initial trainer aircraft.
In my opinion, the Firefly's biggest weakness is that it is too easy to fly (and to aerobat) most of the time, imbuing pilots with confidence not matched by their competence. This results in them taking risks they don't understand and aren't capable of handling, giving an accident rate which is higher than some other aircraft, but it is lower than others, and is comparable with most other aerobatic types which are used primarily for aerobatics (i.e. discounting the C152Aerobat which is seldom aerobatted).
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I did some spin training in a T67 with 160hp and a fixed pitch prop where I believe we were within the CG limits. On one upright spin to the left I put in full right rudder and was then in the pause before moving the stick forward but before I did that the spin 'instantly' changed to one to the right. I was thinking to put in left rudder but my instructor very quickly took control and recovered, I guess he wanted no delay. So the lesson learned was to neutralise the rudder as soon as the rotation stopped and perhaps be a little quicker moving the stick forward.
I now fly a Pitts and there have been cases of people being in an upright spin in one direction crossing over to an inverted spin in the other direction whilst trying to recover and being unable to recognise the change before crashing. So again the lesson learned is to neutralise the rudder as soon as the rotation stops and perhaps be NOT so quick in moving the stick forward.
It seems all types have their peculiarities in the spin, at least in the Pitts the Mueller/Beggs method works when you are unsure what to do.
I now fly a Pitts and there have been cases of people being in an upright spin in one direction crossing over to an inverted spin in the other direction whilst trying to recover and being unable to recognise the change before crashing. So again the lesson learned is to neutralise the rudder as soon as the rotation stops and perhaps be NOT so quick in moving the stick forward.
It seems all types have their peculiarities in the spin, at least in the Pitts the Mueller/Beggs method works when you are unsure what to do.
