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How do civilan pilots view military pilots

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How do civilan pilots view military pilots

Old 1st Sep 2007, 04:37
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How do civilan pilots view military pilots

I'm doing some research into how military pilots are viewed by the wider aviation community and vice versa. Any honest input is greatly appreciated.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 05:36
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Usually very momentarily and sometimes inverted.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 07:54
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Very good at what they do, but on the whole (there are always exceptions) not totally aware of what goes on outside the military.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 07:57
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Usually very momentarily and sometimes inverted.
I knew the answers to this thread were not going to disappoint me
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 08:02
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Pilot's who look down on the GA community but they forget that GA pilot's are able to acutally PAY for their training ?
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 08:18
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GA pilots also have to pay mortgages; they don't get housing provided even if it is sub-standard; they don't have Officers/sergeants/ airmans messes to provide their meals either.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 08:39
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British Military Pilots..........Extremely good at what they do and I have never known any to be anti GA. Obviously they are Human & it takes all sorts. On the whole though I have always found them to be a great bunch of people.

Chevvers. Not sure of the point of your post but these days depending on ac type, a lot of the guys dont see much of their officers / sgts messes as they tend to be away a lot operating in not too pleasant conditions.

DD

RAF? Yes ..... Biased? No
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 09:11
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They have my utmost respect!

I just regret not joining their ranks while I was still young enough...

PR
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 09:16
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Originally Posted by Chilli Monster
Very good at what they do, but on the whole (there are always exceptions) not totally aware of what goes on outside the military.
Very well put CM, although the converse is also perhaps true.

I'd also add that, particularly as I often fly close to "a certain military training airfield", it's always worth remembering that even if it's big, expensive, high powered, with roundels - it may still have a low hour student in it with very poor lookout skills.

G
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 09:21
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Why ?

Why is it called a "mess" ? I guess, because it's generally messy is to obvious an answer ?
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 09:43
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As a civilian* who flies from a military flying club perhaps I have a good perspective on this... Yes, they do sometimes look down on the training of civilian PPLs. As an example, the local AEF takes a patronising attitude to the flying club constantly, even though the aircraft we fly are essentially identical and they are not allowed to conduct instrument flying. But.. this problem is confined to certain groups of military pilots (young fast jet pilots; old AEF ones) - the vast majority, especially the more experienced ones, are perfectly accepting of our presence.

Tim

*PS technically I am actually military personnel (VR(T) officer) but I don't think this puts me on the other side of the fence!
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 10:10
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Lucky bar stewards that get the tax payer to pay for their flying. Our local plod helicopter is up burning almost constantly.

Wish I could get the good people of Guildford to pay for me to fly here there and everywhere.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 10:38
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Lucky huh?

Please remember that military pilots also pay tax, and that they also pay for their training by way of a long Return of Service commitment. This often sees them flying in dangerous places for long periods of time, over countries full of people that hate them, and some of them don't come home. All in the name of looking after the rest of the taxpayers at home, and their interests.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 10:43
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From my limited experience of flying with ex-RAF fast jet pilots / QFIs they are simply in a different league to civilian trained flying instructors in terms of teaching skills, aircraft handling, general airmanship and the confidence they inspire. Other PPLs I know agree.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 10:43
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In the realm of aviation, RAF pilots have my respect, admiration and envy in roughly equal measure.

I very much doubt that the converse is true!

SD (PPL)
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 11:03
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My point of view on military pilots - Well trained, they are respected, disciplined and get there arses kicked when they screw up

What I don't like about the airforce - Return of service, How its run "behind the scenes" parades the whole saluting stuff, uniform etc etc

Oh and the fact our government keeps wasting money "upgrading" 40+ year old planes, doesn't bother buying new ones, and still hasn't brought replacements for the 30+ jets they sold years ago!

Aero
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 11:31
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What I don't like about the airforce - Return of service, How its run "behind the scenes" parades the whole saluting stuff, uniform etc etc
This i find is normal, since most of them are trained to follow orders without questions, that means kililng when it's ordered, without hesitations... all the behind the scenes stuff is absolutely needed for this purpose.

That's how Julius Ceasar did it, and many before him!! His book 'de bello gallico' is still one of my favorites :-)
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 12:24
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I don't think one can fault UK military pilots.

The trouble starts when they become old codgers and get a job in the CAA. Then, they start treating people like they used to treat them in the RAF: ok, chaps, we have 533 applicants for this one fast jet training position, so hey let's do some serious sorting of men from the sheep!

This is OK in the RAF where they can run an outright war of attrition on the job applicants. And with the planes costing millions, they do need to be quite fussy.

Civil aviation doesn't work like that. One needs to adopt the opposite POV: is this chap good enough to fly, and if so we must allow him to.
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 13:02
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As an RAF QFI, I taught 'baby Bloggs' of both genders to fly the Bulldog at HM's expense. Mind you, they'd been through an intensive interview process first - but NO aptitude selection. In general, these University students were first rate folk - we still have reunions many years later. A few, though, one wouldn't entrust with captaincy of a wheelbarrow, let alone a bicycle - and they were soon asked to leave. But all our students had to meet very high standards; for example, every 28 days they had to do a check ride more demanding than a SEP Revalidation LPC.

BUT - and it is a BIG but, (except for mine) they were taught very little pilot navigation - even VFR - just lots and lots of General Handing and aerobatics. Even when we finally had the luxury of VOR/DME/ILS in the Bulldog and no longer had to rely on fixing position via VDF, we weren't supposed to teach them how to use it. I did - and sent off one of my girls to do a radio navex above OVC cloud, then come back for a PAR. Everyone of my QFI colleagues thought I was mad - but I trusted her and she came back with a big smile and masses of confidence in her abilities.

As a FI, I have to train whoever comes through the door with the money. Even though some have more cash than ability, they have to fly to a safe standard. Not to the 'max rate turn on the buffet nibble' standard we demanded from our UAS students, just safe enough not to get themselves or anyone else into trouble, or to risk the aeroplane.

Most PPL students just want to join the 100 cuppa club and take their girlfriend/boyfriend/son/daughter flying for fun. Some are more serious and want to work towards a CPL and an airline career. But ALL have to pay their own way and we need to remember that. We teach them far more navigation (VFR, then radio, then, if they wish, GPS) than I was ever supposed to teach my UAS students.

Although not much in the way of low level, aerobatics or formation flying, unfortunately. But even the RAF can't afford to teach that to UAS students these days......
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Old 1st Sep 2007, 15:01
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Jealously. Teeth-grittingly, bright green-eyed, jealously....

And I hope they enjoy every single moment of their flying when training and have luck or their God with them when in harms way in the name of our country.

What I'd give for 30mins in a fast jet or a C130 "making progress", perhaps a touch low...

Unfortunately, I don't have curves....well, not in the right places anyway.
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