Flying to France
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Flying to France
Sorry for my ignorance here, but I wonder if anyone can help? I've been flying for around 3 years, and own a share in an Icarus C42 microlight. I'd like to take it over to France for a weekend, but have no idea about paperwork, customs, procedures ets etc; where do I start?
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In no particular order, you need to think about:
- Paperwork for yourself and the airplane, like POH, W&B, CofA, Radio Certificate, Passport, PPL. If your microlight flies on a permit instead of a CofA (don't know how this works) you need a one-time permit from the French.
- Route planning: How far do you want to fly over water, Navaids to use, frequencies.
- To enter/leave mainland Europe (the Schengen area) you need to fly via a customs airport. Verify that customs is available (might not be H24). Consult a flight guide for France.
- Read the "general" area of the French AIP, or the introduction in a flight guide. Some rules are different. In particular, check the equivalent of "rule 5".
- To enter/leave the UK you may want to fly via a customs airport, but you can also use another airport provided that customs/police/special branch are informed through the General Aviation Declaration. Easiest is to fill this in and fax it to the airfield concerned. They'll know what authorities need to be informed.
- ICAO Flightplan will be required and you need to close it yourselves unless you fly to a controlled airport (with a tower).
- Safety aids required and/or a good idea: Life vests? ELT?
- Might want to find out how to get excise duty back on fuel uplifted for the flight. Contact HM Customs & Excise.
- French pilots flying in France, in French designed and built aircraft (eg. Robins) do not see the need to communicate in English, strangely enough. Make a crib sheet of the most important circuit calls in French. Also some airfields have nobody on the ground, so you might need to talk to "traffic".
- Circuit joins may be different.
- Paperwork for yourself and the airplane, like POH, W&B, CofA, Radio Certificate, Passport, PPL. If your microlight flies on a permit instead of a CofA (don't know how this works) you need a one-time permit from the French.
- Route planning: How far do you want to fly over water, Navaids to use, frequencies.
- To enter/leave mainland Europe (the Schengen area) you need to fly via a customs airport. Verify that customs is available (might not be H24). Consult a flight guide for France.
- Read the "general" area of the French AIP, or the introduction in a flight guide. Some rules are different. In particular, check the equivalent of "rule 5".
- To enter/leave the UK you may want to fly via a customs airport, but you can also use another airport provided that customs/police/special branch are informed through the General Aviation Declaration. Easiest is to fill this in and fax it to the airfield concerned. They'll know what authorities need to be informed.
- ICAO Flightplan will be required and you need to close it yourselves unless you fly to a controlled airport (with a tower).
- Safety aids required and/or a good idea: Life vests? ELT?
- Might want to find out how to get excise duty back on fuel uplifted for the flight. Contact HM Customs & Excise.
- French pilots flying in France, in French designed and built aircraft (eg. Robins) do not see the need to communicate in English, strangely enough. Make a crib sheet of the most important circuit calls in French. Also some airfields have nobody on the ground, so you might need to talk to "traffic".
- Circuit joins may be different.
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Try this link, particularly the aide memoire.
This article I wrote gives an overview: "Send Four Faxes, Wait an Hour and Fly to France"
The short version: It's far easier than it may appear - don't be put off!
This article I wrote gives an overview: "Send Four Faxes, Wait an Hour and Fly to France"
The short version: It's far easier than it may appear - don't be put off!
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Originally Posted by BackPacker
- French pilots flying in France, in French designed and built aircraft (eg. Robins) do not see the need to communicate in English, strangely enough. Make a crib sheet of the most important circuit calls in French. Also some airfields have nobody on the ground, so you might need to talk to "traffic".
I'm french myself, trying to obtain my PPL (but this is more presently the lack of money wich make some delays) and fly a lot virtually on IVAO network. I'm a bit aware of what's going on in France.
To answer the first question, I should say you can find any of our charts, in english, either through Eurocontrol (but no VAC chart) or on our french civilian administration directly : http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm
Note you can in AIP section get all VAC, IAC, ARR/DEP and information plates of any french airport.
There's some usefull information here as well (but in french only) from french army (but documents are in two languages) : http://www.dircam.air.defense.gouv.fr/dia/
Hope this will help you.
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Have a look at this website, helped me a lot when I flew over the water for the first time.
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/
Cheers,
CapCon
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/
Cheers,
CapCon
Blah Blah Blah
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It's simple
1) Fax your local special branch with crew and pax details, aircraft details, departure aerodrome, destination aerodrome and times.
2) Submit ICAO flight plan
3) Get PPR if the airfield requires it
4) Get in plane and go to France
It can all be done within an hour (except flying time).
1) Fax your local special branch with crew and pax details, aircraft details, departure aerodrome, destination aerodrome and times.
2) Submit ICAO flight plan
3) Get PPR if the airfield requires it
4) Get in plane and go to France
It can all be done within an hour (except flying time).
The Original Whirly
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You don't need to contact Special Branch to fly to France. You only contact them if you're going to Ireland, the Channel Islands, and I think the Isle of Man (not sure about that one).
If you want to keep it really simple for your first trip, and you're only going for a weekend, go to Le Touquet. They are used to British visitors; they get loads and loads of them. They speak English well, on the radio and on the ground, and will help you out, even find you a place to stay if necessary. And it's a nice town.
If you want to go further, stick to large airports, and you won't have to bother with aviation French. Deauville is easy, and you can go to Honfleur; it's a rather touristy fishing village, but lovely. Or fly along the Normandy beaches and then go to Dinard, also a nice place.
Save the small airfields and French cribsheets etc for your next trip. I'm a great believer in taking things slowly; after all, this is supposed to be fun.
Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone for help. I can't remember how many people at how many airfields have helped me fill out a flight plan form correctly. I do it once a year, and I never remember how to by the following year.
Flying to France is not that difficult, but it's not that easy either. Don't try to do too much, and you'll have a great time.
If you want to keep it really simple for your first trip, and you're only going for a weekend, go to Le Touquet. They are used to British visitors; they get loads and loads of them. They speak English well, on the radio and on the ground, and will help you out, even find you a place to stay if necessary. And it's a nice town.
If you want to go further, stick to large airports, and you won't have to bother with aviation French. Deauville is easy, and you can go to Honfleur; it's a rather touristy fishing village, but lovely. Or fly along the Normandy beaches and then go to Dinard, also a nice place.
Save the small airfields and French cribsheets etc for your next trip. I'm a great believer in taking things slowly; after all, this is supposed to be fun.
Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone for help. I can't remember how many people at how many airfields have helped me fill out a flight plan form correctly. I do it once a year, and I never remember how to by the following year.
Flying to France is not that difficult, but it's not that easy either. Don't try to do too much, and you'll have a great time.
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Snapper, its the easiest thing on earth and don't be put off by those doing the typical English thing and making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If I were you flying from Norfolk. I would fly to Lydd, easy in one hop in a C42. Refuel with tax free fuel, file a flight plan and then head for Le Touquet. You can do all of the customs stuff you need in Lydd in 5 minutes and the trip across the channel is a breeze.
It's a mecca for Brits especially those doing the channel for the first time. You get excellent service and a 10 minute cycle from the rented bikes gets you into town for a range of great restaurants. I love seafood and the choice is wide.
I have been to Le Touquet twice in the last week, once on diversion and once on 30 minutes notice for a nice lunch.
If I were you flying from Norfolk. I would fly to Lydd, easy in one hop in a C42. Refuel with tax free fuel, file a flight plan and then head for Le Touquet. You can do all of the customs stuff you need in Lydd in 5 minutes and the trip across the channel is a breeze.
It's a mecca for Brits especially those doing the channel for the first time. You get excellent service and a 10 minute cycle from the rented bikes gets you into town for a range of great restaurants. I love seafood and the choice is wide.
I have been to Le Touquet twice in the last week, once on diversion and once on 30 minutes notice for a nice lunch.
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Agreed, but I wouldn't do le Touquet on a nice Sunday, unless arriving before 10am. The place fills up with Brits, some of them unable to fly never mind make radio calls, and it can get a bit scary for someone new. Weekdays are completely different and highly recommended.
Special Branch is for CI, Ireland (N&S) and the IOM, only. 12hrs advance notification, preferably by fax.
There is no need to speak any French if going to/from an international airport, which one has to do anyway unless flying within France.
Special Branch is for CI, Ireland (N&S) and the IOM, only. 12hrs advance notification, preferably by fax.
There is no need to speak any French if going to/from an international airport, which one has to do anyway unless flying within France.
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(Warning - Thread Drift !)
Not strictly true, Special Branch now need 24 hours for olying to the Channel Islands as I have found out to my cost. No experience of I Of M
Agree with I05450, LFAT at weekends can be a bit offputting for the uninitiated, and initiated with heavy traffic.
LF
Not strictly true, Special Branch now need 24 hours for olying to the Channel Islands as I have found out to my cost. No experience of I Of M
Agree with I05450, LFAT at weekends can be a bit offputting for the uninitiated, and initiated with heavy traffic.
LF
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LateFinals, do you have a reference for the 24 hours thing?
Not doubting what you've been told at all - different Forces have been known to interpret the requirement differently - it's just that the GAR Form still clearly refers to 12 hours and the web submission form for my local force does likewise.
The quote from the GAR Form is:
Not doubting what you've been told at all - different Forces have been known to interpret the requirement differently - it's just that the GAR Form still clearly refers to 12 hours and the web submission form for my local force does likewise.
The quote from the GAR Form is:
AT A GAA AIRFIELD YOU CAN FLY TO AND FROM ANYWHERE, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERING PERIODS OF PRIOR NOTIFICATION REQUIRED DEPENDING ON YOUR
DESTINATION/DEPARTURE POINT.
OUTWARDS – TO ANOTHER EU COUNTRY THERE IS NO OBLIGATION TO ADVISE
CUSTOMS OF YOUR DEPARTURE.
OUTWARDS – TO A NON EU COUNTRY (INC CHANNEL ISLANDS*) YOU MUST NOTIFY
CUSTOMS AT LEAST 24 HOURS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE.
INWARDS – FROM ANOTHER EU COUNTRY – 4 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
INWARDS – FROM A NON EU COUNTRY – 24 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
*CHANNEL ISLANDS – NOTIFICATION PERIOD IS 12 HOURS.
DESTINATION/DEPARTURE POINT.
OUTWARDS – TO ANOTHER EU COUNTRY THERE IS NO OBLIGATION TO ADVISE
CUSTOMS OF YOUR DEPARTURE.
OUTWARDS – TO A NON EU COUNTRY (INC CHANNEL ISLANDS*) YOU MUST NOTIFY
CUSTOMS AT LEAST 24 HOURS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE.
INWARDS – FROM ANOTHER EU COUNTRY – 4 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
INWARDS – FROM A NON EU COUNTRY – 24 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
*CHANNEL ISLANDS – NOTIFICATION PERIOD IS 12 HOURS.
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Snapper, its the easiest thing on earth and don't be put off by those doing the typical English thing and making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Most of my flights seem to involve crossing between the Marseille and the Barcelona FIRs. As they're both Schengen I do not need to fly to/from an international airport so I have more choice, but other than that it's just a normal flight.
French on the radio is only required when flying to small, uncontrolled aerodromes (A/A, RDO). The VACs in the French AIP indicate when this is the case. Elsewhere, French ATC speak excellent English, if a bit accented sometimes.
Note to self: need to go easier on the acronyms
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Dave W
Don't have a reference, but local procedures in Elstree mean Special Branch (Herts) can be very sticky unless 24 hours notice given.
I tried faxing centrally late one night a few weeks ago at the absolute minimum 12 hours notice, Elstree wouldn't authorize me to depart as they hadn't received SB approval. Local rules can be very quirky !!
LF
Don't have a reference, but local procedures in Elstree mean Special Branch (Herts) can be very sticky unless 24 hours notice given.
I tried faxing centrally late one night a few weeks ago at the absolute minimum 12 hours notice, Elstree wouldn't authorize me to depart as they hadn't received SB approval. Local rules can be very quirky !!
LF
The Original Whirly
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its the easiest thing on earth
I only mention this because no-one should feel that there's something odd about them if they find a first flying trip to France a bit daunting. It can be. I suspect some of the experienced globetrotting pilots in our midst have forgotten.
Actually, the most daunting thing is not the paperwork - it's coasting out on a hazy day when the sky meets the sea and you feel like you're heading off into complete nothingness. Follow a couple of ships to help with the visual references; it makes a lot of difference.
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It doesn't even have to be a hazy day. My first crossing was KOK-DVR at FL45 in CAVOK conditions. Even with 10k viz, the horizon at FL45 is more than 10k away. So the blue-grey from the sea melts into the grey-blue from the sky. It takes a very conscious effort to look sideways, underneath or even behind you for a coastline, shipping and other things and using that as a reference instead of the horizon.
Without an IMC or IR rating, I don't know what the best tactic is in such a situation. Flying lower will give you a more clearly defined horizon but increases the time you're out of gliding distance for land. Relying solely on the artificial horizon without the benefit of IMC/IR training carries a few risks as well. Me, I was very happy that I took a plane with an autopilot and I knew how that worked.
Don't worry too much about this though. Obviously the route you're going to pick, and the altitude, is going to take this into account. If the weather is not optimal, choose the shortest crossing available.
Without an IMC or IR rating, I don't know what the best tactic is in such a situation. Flying lower will give you a more clearly defined horizon but increases the time you're out of gliding distance for land. Relying solely on the artificial horizon without the benefit of IMC/IR training carries a few risks as well. Me, I was very happy that I took a plane with an autopilot and I knew how that worked.
Don't worry too much about this though. Obviously the route you're going to pick, and the altitude, is going to take this into account. If the weather is not optimal, choose the shortest crossing available.
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Elstree wouldn't authorize me to depart as they hadn't received SB approval
Is this a police state we live in?
Firstly, Elstree have no business getting "approval" from anybody.
Secondly, the cops have no business issuing an "approval" because there is no law which supports this. The word is NOTIFICATION.
I know that the coppers like to phone you in the middle of the night with a "permission number" but that is a job creation scheme which has no support in the legislation.
A 12hr notification is what is required, and then you can go.
They can arrest you of course; a copper can arrest anybody without an explanation, but short of that they can't stop you flying if you have given the 12hr notification and can prove you did it (e.g. with a fax receipt).
Is this a police state we live in?
Firstly, Elstree have no business getting "approval" from anybody.
Secondly, the cops have no business issuing an "approval" because there is no law which supports this. The word is NOTIFICATION.
I know that the coppers like to phone you in the middle of the night with a "permission number" but that is a job creation scheme which has no support in the legislation.
A 12hr notification is what is required, and then you can go.
They can arrest you of course; a copper can arrest anybody without an explanation, but short of that they can't stop you flying if you have given the 12hr notification and can prove you did it (e.g. with a fax receipt).
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On the subject of flying to France, what is the current state of play with regards to ELTs? I remember there was a fuss about new CAA legislation but then they issued some kind of exemption, but I remember being somewhat confused at the time as to how exactly it pertained to light aircraft.
Obviously one takes life jackets, that's a legal requirement and common sense. But is the ELT necessary?
Obviously one takes life jackets, that's a legal requirement and common sense. But is the ELT necessary?