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St Mawgan

Old 4th Jul 2007, 21:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I am saying that if you fly into a controlled airfield and talk to a controller regardless of whether you use the ILS or not you have consumed the same resources. Controllers do not get paid on the type of traffic they handle, they get a salary for doing a job. That salary comes largely from the fees charged by the operators of the facility to the users of the facility.

Am I the only one with a basic grasp of business?
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 21:52
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Bose:

I'd agree with you about airport operators having to cover their costs - if people want to fly into a well equipped airfield they should expect to pay a share of the operating cost. Arguably, you in your puddlejumper should pay more than an airliner using the airways or approach aids, as your (probably) low speed means you're clogging the system up for all those others wanting to go faster than you, and using the aforementioned facilities for twice as long as everyone else.......

And as for the talk of fragile egos - with all your stinking chat then you should most definately not be stone throwing in your glass-house!
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 22:31
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Thats what I love about PPRuNe, people run out of valid arguments so have to take it personal.

A bit like the playground bully who can only argue with fists......
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 07:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry mate, did I hurt your feelings? Was actually agreeing with you about airfield charges....
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 08:07
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You may have been agreeing with me but still had to sink to childish personal abuse................
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 10:32
  #26 (permalink)  

 
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I am saying that if you fly into a controlled airfield and talk to a controller regardless of whether you use the ILS or not you have consumed the same resources. Controllers do not get paid on the type of traffic they handle, they get a salary for doing a job.
Right, but when they are a MoD employee, then they should provide the service to all people as it is your tax pounds at work. Just like they do in America
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 10:51
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I could not agree more Al. Alas that is not the way the system works so we are stuck with it until you become Premier.....
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 14:07
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I think an important point is being overlooked here. We are talking of "Cheapskate VFR" pilots here, so it doesnt matter what services the field provides as a VFR pilot doesn't need them. So go to Perranporth which is only 11 miles S.W. and will cost 10 or whatever! If the weather is crap then the VFR pilot will be on the ground anyway.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 15:04
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Bose is correct - it is a commercial market. We may all wish otherwise (including Bose I suspect), but that is the reality.

As with any commercial market supply and demand has its influence.

I recall when Bournemouth hiked its fees it became a grave for GA. They realised they could slot GA in with the commercial traffic (and all at marginal cost because their fixed costs remained the same) and GA returned.

STM have a problem in that the amount of commercial traffic is small and there are the MOD fees to be paid as well.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 15:21
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Bose - What exactly did I say that was personally insulting? Other than you might want to reconsider your own attitude if you accuse others of possessing big egos?
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 16:26
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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one who does not or cannot use the full facilities of such airfields expects to pay less for not using them despite the fact that they are part of the fixed operating costs of such establishments.
I don't expect to pay ANYTHING for not using a service.
As for fragile egos, getting the wrong end of the stick etc, the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" come to mind BoseX. "Let he who is without sin......." Try reading other people's posts a little more carefully.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 17:39
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Uh! I seem to recall it was you who wanted me to apologise......

Personally I don't give a toss, I was merely pointing at that time and time again when people run out of a valid argument on here they resort to name calling.

Don't worry my ego is not damaged in anyway.

As for not using a service, not sure who you work that one out. Last time I looked controlled airfields did not have a VFR only controller especially for the VFR pilots who don't want to pay for unused services. They have one controller doing one job regardless of the flight rules you are arriving under. They do not switch the ILS off just because you can't use it. All of the facilities are there and available to you, if you are unable to or choose not to why should they discount the price?

I wish they were all free like the states, it would save me a fortune, but alas I am realist and if I don't want to pay I go elsewhere. So when the weather is sunny and going to stay that way I go to Peranporth, when it dodgy I go to Newquay and understand I will have to pay for the services.

I don't sit and moan about it......
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 18:22
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I'll say it again, am i missing something here? What's the reason a VFR pilot needs to go to St Mawgan, when a very nice airfield is to be had a few miles away? Its a bit like wanting land at London City when you have Stapleford for your C172????????????????
Please explain
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 18:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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We were just answering the question as to why to go to St Mawgan, the orginal poster had the ability to fly an ILS and with the rate the weather changes down there it made a safe choice.

But as pointed out there is plenty of choice. If you are going VFR only and are prepared to be weathered in should the weather change suddenly then Peranporth is a good choice.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 18:43
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bose-x
But as pointed out there is plenty of choice. If you are going VFR only and are prepared to be weathered in should the weather change suddenly then Peranporth is a good choice.
Just out of interest, what are the take-off minima for St Mawgan and Perranporth bose-x?
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 18:49
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Thats all fine and dany Bose, but it's still the case that the Flying Nurse, being a VFR pilot could use Perranporth and not St MAwgan if the unresistable need to fly to that part of the country so took them I assume most who have invested in IR's or IMCR's are only to happy to be flying properly, "like the airlines" as we say So do not worry about a 40 or so difference on a 3 day trip! Doesnt even cover the beers
Talking of beer, i'm off to the local hostelry! Cheers PB.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 18:53
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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PB, I am sorry but I am completely lost. I never told our flying nurse that he should go to Newquay instead of Peranporth. Read the thread........

Take of minima for private ops is subject to your license. With an IMC 1800m and 600ft I think. IR 0/0 if you were so inclined.

The landing minima are the important ones. VFR only for Peranporth and 200ft for Newquay with an IR 500ft with an IMC (recommended but you could do 200ft if current).

Personally I would not be blagging my way out of a socked in VFR airfield regardless of the fact I have an IR.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 19:07
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Completely lost Bose? I would have used the term "temporarily uncertain of position" All i am getting at is the gist of the thread moved to you, wombat(The FLying Nurse) and Knight paladin name throwing over an 80 landing fee, which included approach, parking etc! So what i wanted to know was why Wombat would go into St Mawgan, when Perranporth was close by, sseing as it must have been a VFR flight by their admision of being a VFR pilot? Therby saving his/her meagre budget for flying! I totaly agree you get what you pay for in this life and an airfield with radar ils lalalalalalalalalalalala etc will cost more than a strip of grass on the bumby bit of land a farmer could find nothing esle to do with. I deffinitely need a beer now !!
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 20:31
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Bose....

Take Off minima 0/0 with an IR should you so desire?
I think not.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 20:44
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Bose - I suspect the point Wrong Stuff may have been trying to get across is that your take off minima will likely be the same for both Perranporth and St Mawgan - as you quite rightly said it's the other end of the flight where an airfield's facilities tend to be important. I for one have certainly got airborne out of an airfield with no facilities, after negotiating with a nearby radar unit to pick up a service very shortly after take-off. Assuming you do fly in on a good VFR day, your rationale for choosing Mawgan over Perranporth in case you get "weathered in" is one I'd therefore disagree with, although I can well understand your other reasons for wanting to go there.
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