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Damages for dead Yak pilot's family

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Damages for dead Yak pilot's family

Old 17th Oct 2006, 12:09
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Damages for dead Yak pilot's family

The family of a Falklands veteran who died when his plane crashed while practising aerobatic manoeuvres has been awarded 270,000 damages against Yak UK Ltd, of Sandy, Bedfordshire.

BBCi report in full
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 14:00
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I know the people at Little Gransden well (learned to fly there)and i would be surprised if it was THEIR screwdriver in the cables! The finding of a foreign object doesn't prove a thing! Maybe the chap had some bad freinds? Maybe some Hoodies didnt like his choice of clothes ? Maybe he was tinkering himself and forgot the thing was there? Also is his brother not as important to be accorded the same media coverage due to his NOT being a Falklands vet? One last point, when i was taught aero's we went up to 4000' so if anything whent wrong you had time to sort it or get out, so slicing a wing through some power cables would have been a bit unlikely. Sorry if i dont sound sympathetic to the bereaved, i do. But taking money from someone without conclusive evidence is just a sign of this litigious country we live in and it really ks nt rds off!
Now i feel a bit better.
The report said "the damages for the dead pilots family"
So how much is the dead brothers family going to try for?
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 14:22
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IIRC from the preliminary report, the engineer in question recalled losing a similar screwdriver.

..and personally, I'd rather have my Brother/uncle/dad back. Sadly this is impossible for the family concerned.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 14:29
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Noisy, could you give a link to that report please?
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 14:36
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Hi PG,

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_024587.pdf

It seems that the AAIB's concern was that there was no tool control system at this organisation, although it seems that the pilot may have touched the screwdriver. See page 5. (I don't have any kind of axe to grind btw)

N
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 14:52
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I knew Tony and regularly competed against him at aeros comps. His loss was a very sad occurence.

Pistongone - your post shows appalling bad taste as well as ignorance. I'm truly glad that YOU feel better.

What a knob.

Stik
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 15:27
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Originally Posted by stiknruda View Post
I knew Tony and regularly competed against him at aeros comps. His loss was a very sad occurence.
Pistongone - your post shows appalling bad taste as well as ignorance. I'm truly glad that YOU feel better.
What a knob.
Stik
pistongone may not have expressed his views in a tactfull way much the same as you have not Stik. But he does have a point. It seems that an award was made on cirmumstantial evidence. How did the screwdriver get into the aircraft? How come it had the pilots DNA on it? I have borrowed my maintanance guys tools on more than one occassion and can easily see how it could have been forgotton and ended up where it should not have.

Will the money bring the dead guys back?

My 2 cents.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 15:30
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Pistongone,
are you an employee of YAK UK Ltd? Your polemic against the people involved in this sad accident is quite staggering, which makes me wonder if you have a connection to any of this?
Perhaps a little personal moderation should be applied before posting something like your attack!
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 15:33
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Sticknrudder,
i am sorry your offended by my post, but i wanted to make a point of the litigious mentality that prevails in this country. How do you or any other person know who's screw driver, if indeed that was the cause of the loss of control, it was? The accident rate on the roads of the UK is 3500/year, ish. so in the last week appx 67 people died and you didnt feel any remorse or otherwise for them did you? You may even have been cursing in the resultant traffic jam caused by one of them!
My point is, when ever anything happens, Lawyers'R'us come running and someone cops a large bill! So Stick, if you can say hand on heart that the pilot or his brother, who incidently didnt seem to cause you as much concern as the pilot, never ever carried out any home maintenance on the aircraft, then i will modify my views. However, seeing as the pilot isn't with us anymore, i think we can assume the person i am actually agreeved with is the one who made the claim. PROBABLY A LAWYER on legal aid even. You see Stick, when things are not connected with yourself, personally, it is easier to be objective!!! Imagine if the AAIB boy's knew someone personally involved? They would be off the job, same with the Police, Judges,Lawyers and Doctors. So i feel for you while you are mourning the loss of your friend, but i still feel angry at the claims'R'us mentality that brought this case to court, resulting in a large damages award!
As for me being a knob, well i will just put that down to your being agreeved, or maybe just being vocabularily challenged
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 15:39
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How do you or any other person know who's screw driver, if indeed that was the cause of the loss of control, it was?
We know because the AAIB report states it.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 15:57
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Originally Posted by Mercenary Pilot View Post
We know because the AAIB report states it.
Playing devils advocate here, the report has not positivly identified the screwdriver as belonging to YAK UK, just that a trainee had lost a similar item. It also could not explain how the screwdriver had the pilots DNA on it.

How about this for a scenario (one I have done myself in fact):

Pilot needed to open a hatch or similar, did not have a screwdriver, looked around the hanger, found screwdriver in trainees open toolbox, "borrowed" it. Got distracted doing something else and forgot about the screwdriver. The rest is history.

It just strikes me that this is a payout based on very scanty facts in fact mostly surmisation.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:00
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So now we know that the screwdriver in question was the one the Trainee mechanic lost and the pilot had obviously used(his DNA being present). I think it quite likely, given these factors, the pilot may have left the screwdiver there himself. As i alluded to in my first post. Without getting into a theological debate, i would like to say, with the best will in the world, when your times up, its up! I speak as someone who lost a kidney in a motorcycle racing accident, and came quite close to the check out! As a consequence i look at life in a different perspective.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:06
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I had exactly the same scenario in my mind so I agree 100% bose-x and i'm sure that these facts will be brought up in an appeal. I would think that DNA on the screwdriver would lead to a strong defense.

However, the screwdriver is certainly the cause of the accident and very likely did come from the YAK UK workshop.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:06
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The next of kin in any accident should not be blamed in any way for sueing. The result is usually down to the quality of advocates as I'm sure Yak Uk or their insurers are only too aware.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:30
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What emphasis was put on it being the pilots responsibility to check his aircraft for loose objects before flying? Our group check the aircraft before a flight and again afterwards. It is always sad when a pilot dies in such a way, but in this case, it does not seem clear cut as to who was to blame.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:38
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For the benefit of those not familiar with the Yak 52, it may be worth pointing out how that srewdriver might have got where it got. Anything dropped into the cockpit, either directly or by falling out of someone's pocket, can very easily end up in the position that screwdriver was found - jamming the elevator mechanism at the very rear of the fuselage.

And as the report says, a screwdriver is essential for pre-flighting a '52 to release the covers for the fuel and oil.

I used to do a 'loose objects' check before flight, but such a check is never going to be conclusive since objects can become wedged in places out of sight and which do not reveal themselves in the customary 'slap the fueslage underside' check.
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 16:46
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I'd just like to make a point.


Any decision to award damages was made by a court, which was presented with evidence both for and against culpability and thus the award. A great deal of effort will have gone into preparing and presenting that evidence - which will comprise vastly more information than is contained in the AAIB report (or is available to most of us). It is on that large body of evidence, and expert arguments, that a conclusion and award for damages were based.

It's also the case that anybody who is in this business should have substantial public liability insurance, and anybody who has lost a member of their family has lost a great deal. Whilst one may have a dim view of some members of the legal profession, it is the mechanism to ultimately decide whether the person/family who have lost much, should be compensated by the insurance of the organisation. There isn't really another way.

It would be very interesting to see the court proceedings, does anybody know if such things become readily accesssible?

G
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 18:29
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I'd like to know what lottery numbers that guy uses!
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 20:55
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It's negligent to design a plane so that something can transit from the passenger space to somewhere where it matters.

Why do people design them in that way?
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Old 17th Oct 2006, 20:59
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I used to send my Cesspit drivers for a spin with Tony and i have to report his fastidiousness in frisking for loose objects - so i reckon he knew the risks associated with an open floor design.
He was quite the most superlative aerobatic pilot and a completely "Inclusive" person. I detected none of the arrogance you get with some.
Ironically Yak owners at the time were forced to bring their machines onto the UK reg when,really, they were happy to stay with Lithuanians or Checkos or whatever. I always thought it a bit arrogant of our authority to force this change as these Easterners did invent the aircraft and may have even learnt a bit about them over the last 30 years?
I feel sorry for the engineer who would seem to have made a mistake.
I feel a bit more perplexed and slightly cross about the **** trying to make assertions about a pair of brothers who had taken their flying to levels of excellence and experience few of us could really relate to.
I abhor this sanctimonious attitude of "If i ridicule others i must be agrandising myself" - do they know how they sound??? Couldn't those brain cells expended writing posts of that tone be best sacrificed elsewhere? I submit.
Spernkey Bowlock
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