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cross country requirement for currency

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cross country requirement for currency

Old 13th Jul 2005, 13:05
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cross country requirement for currency

It is 18 months since I passed my PPL and I have plenty of hours, however I read recently a passing comment about a number of hours having to be cross country. I have some cross country time but not much and wondered if someone could shed some light on how many hours are needed.
Also what is the proceedure for revalidation.

Thanks Yppl
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Old 13th Jul 2005, 13:16
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Yorks.ppl

As far as I'm aware there is no legal requirement for any of your hours to be cross crountry when revalidating/renewing your PPL. You just have to have the requisite number of hours and take off's and landings.

The only thing that I can think of were there is a requirement for a minimum number of hours of cross country is for starting an IMC rating. However its a long time since I did my initial IMC training, so things may have changed since then.

Brooklands
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Old 13th Jul 2005, 19:36
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AFAIK there is no requirement for cross country time as such but there is a requirement to have a nav check if you are doing the renewal by check rather than the hour with an instructor and sufficient hours.
If you haven't done much xcountry it may be worth brushing up on nav.
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Old 13th Jul 2005, 20:19
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One could also imagine a club rule about XC currency.
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Old 14th Jul 2005, 10:12
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Paris Dakar
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I might be wrong but.........

I haven't read anything about XC hours but if you are revalidating you will need to fly a mini nav exercise.

I revalidated recently after a long lay-off and part of the process was to plan a flight as prescribed by the examiner. About 15 mins into the flight I was asked to divert and give ETA and new headings etc. Once I was over the designated point then that was the end of the nav bit and it was back to some stalls, steep turns and PFLs etc.

PD
 
Old 14th Jul 2005, 12:56
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These discussions can get very confusing if you're not using the correct terminology. The official terminology uses two very similar words ("renew" and "revalidate") to mean distinctly different things, and unfortunately Paris Dakar may have used the wrong word (and EddieHeli certainly has)!

Assuming the "long layoff" (s)he refers to means that the rating had already expired, PD is talking about renewing the SEP rating, not revalidating. Revalidation is what you do within the validity period of your rating in order to extend its validity for another 2 years. Renewing is what you have to do after your rating has expired - which will of course be a skills test.

There is no requirement whatsoever for any of your hours to be "cross country" if you are revalidating by experience (i.e. doing all the necessary flying time). All you need is 12 hours total, of which at least 6 hours must be in command, 12 take-offs and landings, a 1 hour flight with an instructor, and the signature on the ratings page - all within the 12 months leading up to your expiry. (Have I missed anything out? Probably!)

If you are renewing (outside the validity period of your rating) by having another skills test then you do have to demonstrate the ability to navigate during the test.

As a general comment though, why have you not done much cross-country time? I think you should get out there and fly to new and interesting places before you get bored with your PPL.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 03:38
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Smile

One could also imagine a club rule about XC currency
Sure; anything is possible, I guess. But I've never heard of any clubs with such a requirement.

Rightly or wrongly, most pilots and clubs place their currency emphasis on basic airmanship: circuits, stalls, spins, PFLs, etc. The popular assumption seems to be that any idiot can fly cross-country (and assuming a working GPS and a reasonable knowledge of how to access weather reports, perhaps that may not be far off the mark).
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 09:38
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Thanks for the responses, am I right in understanding that I can do the revalidation any time this year then?
And if so, does the rating run for 2 years from the end of the last or 2 years from the date of revalidation?



Quote
"As a general comment though, why have you not done much cross-country time? I think you should get out there and fly to new and interesting places before you get bored with your PPL."

dmjw01
I am greatfull for your answer to my question, however I find the above statement slightly odd. We all have different criteria that dictate when and where we fly.

Anyhow, thanks again to all for the answers.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 09:47
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There is a requirement for a certain number of hours to be "cross-country" if you intend to go for a commercial licence.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 10:03
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Paris Dakar
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dmjw01

I stand corrected

PD
 
Old 15th Jul 2005, 10:58
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yorks.ppl

I'm also intrigued as to why you have not got so many hours 'cross country'? Perhaps you have a different point of view of what xc is? As far as i'm concerned xc is anything outside the circtuit - not just going to other places. I do alot of my flying in evenings from an airfield which closes at 7pm, so a lot of my flights are 'local' i.e not landing away, but an hour and a half bimbling around the essex countryside is still 'cross country' even if the flight starts and finishes at the same place.
As you rightly say, everyone has different criterea as to where and when you fly, but djmw has a point - going to other airfields is always a good idea and a lot of fun - even within my couple of hours in the evening window there are a number of other airfields I can vist.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 12:48
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I have always understood a local flight to be one where you return to the airfield of departure without landing away (rather like that chappy in the virgin global thingy )
A cross country is where you land away as in the PPL QXC

Therefore as most of my flying is a wonder around the area for a couple of hours it is not classed as cross country.

As I said before we all have different reasons to fly and different limiting factors. I am suprised that others find it pertinent to comment on the type of flying I am able/comfortable to do.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 14:05
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I think the the CAA's definition of a cross country flight is one which goes more than 3nm from the airfield, which, given the size of circuits a some airfield (due to noise abatement needs), means the a circuit may count as a cross country . I don't think that there's any specific requirement to land away for a flight to count as a cross country (except on the QXC).

So, your wanderings in the local area almost certainly count as cross countrys.

I wonder if theose who were expressing concern about your 'lack of cross country experience' were assuming that all you were flying is circuits.

Your revalidated licence will run for two years form the expiry of your old licence, irrespective of when in the last year you do the hour with an instructor. Remember that you MUST also complete the paper work, get it signed by an examiner, and sent to the CAA BEFORE you licence expires - oethrwise you haven't met the requirements, and your licence will be invalid. You'll then have to renew it.

Brooklands
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 14:37
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I think there are only 2 categories - in the circuit, or not in the circuit which is cross country. You could fly a long route of 3 hours and start and end at the same airfield which would be just as valid as a short 10 minute hop to another airfield that you can almost see from the circuit of your home base.

Having said that, I tend to think if I've planned a flight with proper navigation, tracking VORs etc. then I count it as cross country, if I'm just popping up for a local bimble which needs no specific navigation planning as I know the area then it doesn't really feel the same.

And before anyone shoots me down, I'm only talking about the nav planning - I know every flight has plenty of other things such as NOTAMS, fuel, weather etc.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 14:56
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I think you'll find that for a flight to be classified as "Cross country" a landing at another airfield other than the one of departure is required. This is important if you are working towards other licences.

In FAA Land a cross country is defined as a landing at another airfield, AT LEAST 50nm from point of departure (straight line distance). Not sure on the JAA requirements, but it'll be along those lines I should imagine.
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 16:40
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According to LASORS, schedule 8 of the ANO states:
'Cross-country flight' means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.
This seems to be a general definition as the PPL and some ratings (eg ATPL) also have requirements for cross countrys with given distances and landaways.

Brooklands
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 17:01
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Yorks.ppl

I don't do what I would call 'proper' XC flying lately either. Like you, I tend to bimble around the local area and land back at the same old same old.

We all have our own reasons for doing this - mine a lack of money and perhaps confidence (both of which I'm tryng to resolve!).

But I read dmjw01's comment as purely motivational rather than defamatory. i.e. more along the lines of "go on son , get out there" not "what are you doing wasting your time at home?"....

Anyways, I don't like landing at them concrete stripped thingys , what do you call them? Airports. That's it.

I prefer a nice cool lemonade in the back of the White Swan hotel on the banks of Windermere... shame it costs me so much for the privilege"



and if my boss asks what I've been doing this afternoon whilst he's off, in the words of "The Fast Show",

You Ain't Seen Me! Right?

RH
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 17:49
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Having said that, I tend to think if I've planned a flight with proper navigation, tracking VORs etc. then I count it as cross country, if I'm just popping up for a local bimble which needs no specific navigation planning as I know the area then it doesn't really feel the same.
Yeah, that's about what I do. If I've drawn a line on the map I log the time as XC, if I just navigate locally by looking out of the window at familiar landmarks then I don't. If, say, I took off from Cambridge, landed at Bourn, took off again, landed at Duxford, flew back to Cambridge, then I wouldn't feel that I'd been flying "cross country".
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Old 15th Jul 2005, 20:44
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The popular assumption seems to be that any idiot can fly cross-country
A dangerous assumption around the London TMA, as the high number of unauthorized incursions into the Stansted zone demonstrates, year on year.
 
Old 15th Jul 2005, 21:08
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'Cross-country flight' means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure."
-------------------------------------------------

This definition taken from the ANO is used to define "cross country" for the purposes of the privileges of a Flight Instructor. A FI(R), formerly (AFI) may not authorise a student on their first solo flight or first solo "cross country" defined as any flight more than three miles from the airfield.

For the purpose of claiming cross country hours towards licence issue (CPL etc) Cross country is any flight A to B or any flight from A to A with defined turning points. i.e. it is planned rather than a wander arround.
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