Failed?

[Mu Beta]

Have to agree

with Green for Go in his post earlier.
If you can't pick a field, there's no point whatsoever in doing PFL practice. If you have an engine failure for real you certainly aren't going to have an examiner sitting next to you saying "go for that one" and you'll be up S*** creek without a paddle!

[Whirlybird]

Would be interesting for me to compare these experiences with CPL fails and see where the differences are. However, the new thread would have to be in wannabes I suppose...

Penguina, funny you should say that, as I was just about to write about my CPL(H) test, as it was a good learning experience for anyone, on how to salvage what could easily have been a fail.

I get ridiculously nervous before flying tests, and it doesn't get any better with practice. This time I even forgot something in the start-up which I'd done hundreds of times. The nav section was first, and I was all over the place, too scared to think straight. Luckily I found the grid reference I was looking for, or it would have been an automatic fail. Everything else was OK, but not good, and when I got back I even had problems landing. We stopped for a break, and I was utterly convinced I'd failed. But I remembered being told that you should never give up, that there was ALWAYS a chance to salvage things. So I managed to calm down before the general handling, and even do the instrument flying, which I like, rather well (though I say so myself). And I managed to handle all four simulated emergencies adequately, which probably helped. When I got back for an extensive debrief, the first thing the examiner said was: "You've passed...but I don't want you to think you did well". I breathed a sigh of relief, and said: "I KNOW I didn't do well". He went on to say that he could tell I was incredibly nervous, but appreciated the fact that I was coping, and actually getting better rather than worse, as it proved I could cope with stress when flying. And since I'd gradually improved throughout, he felt able to pass me.

I could so easily have just mentally given up when things weren't going well. But perfection is not expected, for either the PPL or CPL, and it may always be possible to salvage things.

[Flik Roll]

Did anyone else do their test is 2 parts?

I had to due weather...managed to do the GH bit just about then the weather came down very quickly and suddenly the cloudbase had gone from 3000ft to 300ft in minutes. Had to do the nav another time...

Trick for the nav...I have an 8 minute thumb plan your route and then when you are halfway through the second leg, they will divert you, work out all possible diversions so you have a rough idea.

I was told that on the nav bit, you weren't allowed to do Radio Nav, but the examiner after letting me work out my diversion said 'why don't you just use the VOR?'

I passed 1st time for GHT and QXC (couldn't possibly get lost on QXC, took off climbed into the overhead and could see both destinations!) Map wasn't required!

[shortstripper]

Hmmmm,

I was never failed, but did have to turn back twice on my QXC. Once due to radio failure and once due to weather. It was all the more frustrating because the last week of training was done with another couple of students who both had trouble free flights and passed

What was good though was that all my training was done in the Cambridge and Essex areas that I don't know well. I eventually (about three months later) did my QXC from Lands end in Cornwall. I know Cornwall and Devon like the back of my hand, so chucked the chart in the back and had one of the most relaxed and enjoyable flights in CAVOK that I can remember


SS

PS. Only managed a partial pass in IMC due to weather I didn't get back in time to retest, so to my greatest regret is I've never actually qualified . That said, I've only flown PFA types since that cannot fly IMC anyway

[Deano777]

I passed my QCC 1st attempt, Bristol - Exeter - Bournemouth - Bristol.
My 1st attempt at the GST I aborted, the weather was ok but visability was down to about 8k, all was ok until I was at Cirencester, I turned left to fly over Gloucester & the sun was terrible what with the shortened vis, I aborted it myself, an expensive abort that was too .
2nd try, I had a route from Bristol - Fordingbridge - Bridport - Bristol, weather wasnt great, vis was good, cloudbase was 2,500ft, turbulance was terrible, my route took me fairly close to Boscome Down MATZ, well I was struggling to allign the DI with the compass as I couldnt keep the damn plane steady and inadvertantly flew into the MATZ by ½ a mile, I couldnt climb to smoother air due to the cloub base.
I did the GH part and passed that ok.
I then retook the Nav part and had the same route, I passed perfectly, diversion all went well as did the 180deg instrument turn (he had me enter cloud for this part), tracked BRECON VOR for 5 minutes, then back in to land, perfecto

good luck chaps & chappettes

Dean

[G SXTY]

I passed my JAA PPL in minimum hours, then went to the US to take the FAA flight test and do some hours-building. Had a one hour preparation flight with an instructor, who told me “Don’t worry, your flying is well up to standard, you’ll walk it.” Can you guess what’s coming?

On the day of the test, to cut a very long story short, I shouldn’t have been flying. I had a heavy cold / throat infection that was starting to block my ears, and I had only had 3 hours’ sleep, having very nearly had a forced landing in the Everglades the previous night. Not a good start, but it got worse.

Having clambered into the aircraft in 30 degree plus heat, I let the examiner bully me into rushing my checks – “Come on, let’s get taxying and get some air through this thing.” As a result, I missed several rather important checklist items (aligning DI and compass, switching on the transponder . . .). So off we launched, to start with some VOR tracking. Staring at the OBI, I couldn’t correlate what the needle was doing with my heading (not too surprising, as the DI was completely off), and I sensed things weren’t going well when the examiner asked; “Have you ever done this before?”

My confidence started to return with some unusual attitude recovery, but then we tried stalling. (It’s worth mentioning at this point that I had never stalled this particular aircraft – unknown to me, it had been fitted with a new wing, which endowed it with exciting handling at the stall). Anyway, in blissful ignorance I let the knots bleed away, expecting a wail from the stall warner and the usual benign downwards mush. Instead, the left wing dropped viciously, I let out an expletive and threw my hands up in horror.

At that point the examiner had seen enough and decided to discontinue the test. “It’s not a fail, but I think you need to brush up on some areas and come back in a couple of days.” Which I did, and got my FAA licence as a slightly older, wiser and poorer pilot.

Conclusion? You need to be 100% fit and rested for your test. If not, postpone it as you’ll probably be wasting you money. Never let the examiner rush or bully you – if you need more time for checks, or you don’t want to chat about football while selecting a field for your PFL, don’t be afraid to tell him – assert yourself. If you make a mistake, don’t flap or panic, stay calm, point it out to the examiner (chances are he’s already noticed but is waiting to see if you spot it) and correct the situation.

At the end of the day, the examiner isn’t expecting Chuck Yeager – he’s expecting a nervous 50 hour stude. He expects mistakes but wants to see a decent scan / technique and evidence that you can spot errors and correct them before things become unsafe.

[Penguina]

I've had two flights that have gone very wrong and both stories would start with exactly these words:

to cut a very long story short, I shouldn’t have been flying

I shouldn't have been flying in the first place on either occasion; I was not physically and/or mentally up to it, but felt I had to and had higher powers who I felt overrided my decision making authority. Have - hopefully - well and truly learnt that lesson now.

Whirly

Thanks for your story; it was very enlightening. Have to say, I kind of imagined that one doesn't really make mistakes or ever get behind aircraft on CPL tests if one wants to pass, so this was quite comforting reading.

[GroundBound]

I passed first time, but I think he was kinda nice to me - I thought I was really cr@p, and was pretty certain I had failed.

I was pushed for time since I was learning away from home and had to fit the GFT into the last day - due wx problems. The day of the test, weather was clear shining blue sky but SIGMETS on low level turbulence were being published for about 60 miles south of us and there were distant CBs bubbling on the horizon. The examiner says "ïts your call, can we go?" The temptation and need to go was enormous, but I decided we might get out and maybe we might also not get back and broken-heartedly called it off. Apparently that was right - he said he would have failed me there and then, if I had decided to go.

However, we did agree to do it in 2 parts, the airwork first and the cross country the next day (what next day - I didn't have one!). So it all became rather rushed, and I taxied out with the primer bouncing about (not locked, even though I did turn it - it caught on the housing and I didn't notice it).

That set the nerves jangling, I went through the power checks and forgot to do the pre-take off checks - so I was desperately running through them as I lined up (Jeez, what a pig's ear!).

Things settled down for a bit, and then we came back to the field for a PFL , which I wasn't expecting, and I was about to overshoot the ATC clearance limit to hold south of the field, when he reminded me of it (nice guy - really!).

The PFL was conducted against the appoaching rain storm and CBs which were now only a few miles west of the field and the 'plane was bouncing all over the sky. We shot downwind and when I turned to final we kinda stopped moving forward, so the 1st stage flap I had down was turning into an acute embarrasment - sh*te!

I just about scraped it onto the threshold and bounced back into the air and the turbulence had us bucking all over the place - I could hardly hold a heading or rate of climb, and only just managed to keep the speed about right.

Finally we got down without anything else going wrong. I managed to manufacture a "next day" for the cross country which went as smoothly as anything - because I wasn't rushed, and had decided now I had failed anyway and was more relaxed.

Lessons learned? Be releaxed - don't let yourself be rushed. Don't give up - do what you've been taught. You will probably be your own worst enemy. Tell yourself you know how to do it and focus on that. Show that you are in charge and can cope, especially in response to unexpected conditions.

Take heart - even the worst pilots can pass - I did

GB

[KCDW]

Best bit of advice I ever had was "Don't fail yourself". Got me through a pretty awful combined Nav/GFT test. The lowlights:

* Dreadful diversion on the Nav. I must have been 45 degrees off. Only got away with it when I saw the QE2 bridge on my nose when I should have been crossing the Thames about Gravesend. Fessing up to the Examiner, and correcting the mistake did the trick though.

* Changed my target field 3 times while plummeting down on the PFL .

* Did a go around on one of my landings. A direct result of almost total loss of confidence after 2 hrs 20 mins p*ss poor flying. Strongly recommend not doing the 2 exams together.

Having described these disasters to my Instructor afterwards, he said that I had passed because I had showed evidence of using correct judgement in each case.

So repeat after me:

DON'T FAIL YOURSELF

[Whirlybird]

Having described these disasters to my Instructor afterwards, he said that I had passed because I had showed evidence of using correct judgement in each case.

IMHO he was right. Everyone, sometime, will be nervous or overloaded or stressed, and it'll affect their flying. If you show that you can cope in spite of that, you should pass. Perfection is not required, for PPL, CPL, or anything else. If it was, there wouldn't be many pilots around.

DON'T FAIL YOURSELF

Excellent advice.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Did a go around on one of my landings.

That's absolutely fine. You can't be failed for that ... unless perhaps you go around many times in a row having chickened out of landing altogether.

[SquawkModeA]

I passed my test first time around but when taxiing back from the final landing I was certain I had failed.

Among my errors were a serious inability to maintain altitude in an instrument turn, a seriously screwed up approach resulting in a go-around, a completely failed power-off landing and a (very) far from perfect engine failure after takeoff.

The examiner, however, said I did very well and was ready to overlook the errors he confirmed I had indeed done. The instrument flying wasn't easy because of turbulence, I had done the right thing by going around from my flunked approach and my EFATO didn't kill anyone. The only thing he was concerned about was the power-off landing but as I did it better on the second attempt and had done a successful PFL he saw no problems with passing me. He was also happy with the way I handled a runway change in the pattern as well as my general attitude and airmanship.

My point is simply that you shouldn't focus too much on any eventual mistakes you make. As long as it isn't dangerous and you take appropriate corrective action it's not going to be a problem. And if your general flying is good then the examiner might even be ready to overlook a more serious blunder if you get it right on try two. I thought I'd made one mistake too many to be passed and in the end he really only cared about one of them.

EDIT: And this was a checkride for CPL. Presumably, on the PPL ride, the examiner is generally more tolerant.

[Ian_Wannabe]

This is cool stuff everyone thanks. I'm really concerned about using the VOR during my test - A pretty simple thing I know, but the last time I did it was about 6 months ago, before then it was a year previous - each time I go back to it I forget everything.

Any tales with what the examiner asked you to do with the VOR?

Thanks

[SquawkModeA]

Don't forget to identify the VOR. Once (not on the checkride though) when I knew I had set the correct frequency earlier, I didn't bother. Unfortunately the instructor had managed to sneak in a frequency change while I wasn't paying attention to the radio stack.

Spent minutes trying to understand why the instrument refused to make any sense while the b*gger in the right hand seat did his best to contain his laughing.

On the check I was questioned on the NDB but it was just the basics: "Can you tell me our current QDM to XX?" "Good, now fly to QDM XXX". "Great, you can take the hood off now".

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Good thread, it sent me back to the early part of the log book.

The first part of the GFT commenced after hanging around all day waiting for aircraft and examiner to be available and all the Trial Lessons to get out of the way. After one hour twenty we ran out of daylight and airfield opening, so had to call it a day without doing the circuits.

I came back next day and made a complete hash of the circuits, including not recovering from bounces and trying to control the engine with the mixture instead of the throttle. There was obviously something wrong with the way I was flying. A few days later I had another session and went through all the types of circuit and landing without a problem, finally completing a CAA PPL GFT staggered over three days and 3.5 hours of flying time.

I’d echo what’s been said before, don’t fail yourself. Ideally you’ll have a good oral part of the GFT and that will give the examiner some confidence in your understanding, if not your actual hands-on flying.

On the FAA IR flight test I thought I was still supposed to be following the examiner’s vectors, rather than own navigation towards an intersection. Eventually there was a ‘Come left or you ain’t never gonna find that radial’ from the right seat.

Later on I’d completed an approach to MAP and was waiting to inform the Tower and start on the missed approach and vectors for the next ILS. Unfortunately someone had landed and blocked the Tower frequency with extensive questions about taxi instructions. At the examiner’s prodding, I started on the missed approach. This earned a major rollicking from the Tower for starting the Missed Approach without a clearance. There had been a fatal mid-air in the circuit the week before and they were understandably twitchy.

Finally on the ILS I must have been getting a bit flagrant with the odd peek under the Hood (based on the theory that one Peek is worth a thousand Scans). ‘It’s supposed to be a goddamn Instrument approach’ rumbled from the Right Seat. In the end it all went well, The examiner flew us back on completion of the test, which he enjoyed, as he didn’t get much hands on time. All my flying around there had been under the hood, so there was no chance I could find my way home visually, although I didn’t tell him that!

Good luck with the Flight Test.

Safe Flying

[ALEXA]

I agree completely about not failing yourself.

On my PPL, I made a complete hash of the PFL and the radio nav section.

PFL - I made an immediate turn into wind, as instructors had taught me. That meant a left turn.

But the only suitable field had been on the right and that was now directly behind me. So I was completely thrown - I thought he was asking me to PFL into fields the size of postage stamps.

Examiner eventually took pity on me, took control, pointed out the suitable field (about a mile long and 500 yards wide!) criticised my instructors, directed me to climb to exactly the same spot as before and pulled the throttle again.

So this time I turned right and "selected" the suitable field.

I really thought I'd failed.

Nav - when I did the position fix using 2 x VORs, I drew one of the lines on the chart from from a completely different VOR.

I still passed.

[shortstripper]

Do you have to do some radio nav in the test now then? I'm sure I never had to when I did my PPL in 1990? I might be wrong but I don't recollect any radio nav at all?

SS

[Aussie Andy]

Do you have to do some radio nav in the test now then?

Yes, I think this came in with JAR-FCL... I did mine in 2000 and it was included then.

Not much too it really...

Andy

[eoincarey]

Post GFT blues

Hey

I also passed my GFT first time round, but I cant help feeling I dont really deserve it. I got well and truly lost on the way to Skegness, and the examiner had to tell me where I was. For some reason, he then passed me, without even writing up the "navigational error".
Should I be worried that my flying club takes such a laid back view to the GFT? Also, now that Ive passed im really worried that I haven't really learnt much. Most of what little Met knowledge I had has seemed to have dissapeared, and it seems that i still have loads to learn about flying (much of which was already in the Trevor Thom books). Is this a normal worry, or am I really not good enough to have got a PPL?

Cheers for any advice

Eoin

[Whirlybird]

Eoin,

As many will tell you, the PPL is a licence to learn. What you have is a normal worry, felt by all apart from those people who are overconfident. One of those, after getting his PPL in minimum hours, flew off by himself and landed at Llanbedr thinking it was Caernarfon. And while landing at the wrong airfield has been done many times, two airfields a long way apart, on very different looking stretches of coastline, with very different runway layouts....well, him I'd worry about, you I wouldn't. You are right; you still have loads to learn. We all do. The examiner obviously thought you knew enough to be capable of learning more by yourself, that's all.

When I was doing my PPL(A), I kept getting things wrong, and I seemed to have to repeat every exercise, including navs. On my second solo cross country, I got well and truly lost. When I finally got back, my instructor, normally a very mild and calm man, had steam coming out of his ears. How, he wanted to know, had I got lost on a 16 minute leg, on a route I'd flown before, and mistaken one town for another that didn't look anything like it? "Come here and I'll show you", I said, having spent a long time analysing it all myself. I explained, and then he said: "OK, you'd better book your NFT (Navigation Flight Test; this was pre-JAA days)". I said in astonishment: "Don't you want me to repeat that nav?" He said there was no point; I knew where I'd gone wrong and why, and I'd learned from it, which was all that was required; repeating it would achieve nothing.

I'm not in your examiner's head, but no doubt he felt similarly. Trust him, and yourself!