Newcastle Aero Club
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PD
Andy, I wasn't refering to you... please read my post! It was a generic pop at anyone that thought that it was acceptable for anything other than prescribed pilot maintenance to be undertaken by anyone other than an appropriately qualified, licenced engineer. An inescapable fact of life is that these things are governed my the law of the land. And the bad news is that when EASA is fully implemented in the next year theres a whole bunch more stuff that is going to displease GA and more so Private owners
H999
Was it one of NC's choppers that went down at Langley Castle a couple of weeks ago? I'm sure it was a Robinson but it was probably an R44 rather than a 22.
Andy, I wasn't refering to you... please read my post! It was a generic pop at anyone that thought that it was acceptable for anything other than prescribed pilot maintenance to be undertaken by anyone other than an appropriately qualified, licenced engineer. An inescapable fact of life is that these things are governed my the law of the land. And the bad news is that when EASA is fully implemented in the next year theres a whole bunch more stuff that is going to displease GA and more so Private owners
H999
Was it one of NC's choppers that went down at Langley Castle a couple of weeks ago? I'm sure it was a Robinson but it was probably an R44 rather than a 22.
Last edited by Speedtape; 31st Mar 2005 at 15:31.
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TJ
I did not continue to discuss this in an open forum I removed the post immediately after your PM. I just think it is unfair to accuse others for something you yourself did. Has one of my posts ever been factually incorrect?
If you know who I am name me!
h
I did not continue to discuss this in an open forum I removed the post immediately after your PM. I just think it is unfair to accuse others for something you yourself did. Has one of my posts ever been factually incorrect?
If you know who I am name me!
h
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Hiya TJ
Yep everythings good here, thanks. FYI very limited pilot maintenance is allowed under LAMS but only on private category aircraft and then only by the registered owner.
H999
Ta for that info. I thought as much - did a search on G-INFO and didn't recognise the registered owners (but that doesnt mean much as it could have been a leased or sub leased aircraft)
Hi PD
No problem mate - it's me being forthright again, sorry but I am what I am
Yep everythings good here, thanks. FYI very limited pilot maintenance is allowed under LAMS but only on private category aircraft and then only by the registered owner.
H999
Ta for that info. I thought as much - did a search on G-INFO and didn't recognise the registered owners (but that doesnt mean much as it could have been a leased or sub leased aircraft)
Hi PD
No problem mate - it's me being forthright again, sorry but I am what I am
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Its good to see that there's something interesting to read again rather than the drinking stories of 2 or 3 individuals - sorry!
I think this particular oil leak point has to be considered against lingistics and those with an axe to grind against NC. Not having been to the club recently I can only comment based on what others have written above. Surely if someone landed and said the port undercarriage felt a bit soft, you, an instructor or the engineer would go and "have a look" to see if the oleo extension was correct and the tyre pressure good. This is different to actually meddling with it yourself.
It would be useful if someone with more knowledge than myself could list the points of aircraft maintenance/inspection that the pilot/owner can attend to and those which require an engineer. Speedtape, you seem informed - what is EASA?
I suppose we should be happy that someone is offering fixed wing training and solo hire at EGNT again, otherwise a lot of us would be stuffed (or have an hours drive to EGNC/NV). But, we DO all want to know that the aircraft we fly are safe. Whilst, the responsibility falls on the pilot to decide whether the aircraft is airworthy during his walkaround, we ARE reliant on the honesty of the hire organisation to have fulfilled its Public Transport engineering duties. Didn't club instructors in the old days do stuff like bending aileron trim tabs by hand if after a flight it was commented "it rolls to the left/right a bit when you take your hands off". How many times have nav and landing lights been left u/s for months. It was actions like this that we just "grinned and beared".
So what is the conclusion here? Its great that we can hire aircraft again at EGNT. But is the NC ownership as white as it seems, or are we all just being fooled? Are there any connections with the old characters in the club which led to the current ownership?
Finally, the new hire rate does seems expensive these days at 100 pounds plus the landing fee. But I did see in last month's Pilot Magazine the review of UK flying schools, this price is still one of the cheapest. By the way, I think Ashton Aviation behind Samson is doing a Warrier solo during the week for about 10 pounds an hour less than NC.
I think this particular oil leak point has to be considered against lingistics and those with an axe to grind against NC. Not having been to the club recently I can only comment based on what others have written above. Surely if someone landed and said the port undercarriage felt a bit soft, you, an instructor or the engineer would go and "have a look" to see if the oleo extension was correct and the tyre pressure good. This is different to actually meddling with it yourself.
It would be useful if someone with more knowledge than myself could list the points of aircraft maintenance/inspection that the pilot/owner can attend to and those which require an engineer. Speedtape, you seem informed - what is EASA?
I suppose we should be happy that someone is offering fixed wing training and solo hire at EGNT again, otherwise a lot of us would be stuffed (or have an hours drive to EGNC/NV). But, we DO all want to know that the aircraft we fly are safe. Whilst, the responsibility falls on the pilot to decide whether the aircraft is airworthy during his walkaround, we ARE reliant on the honesty of the hire organisation to have fulfilled its Public Transport engineering duties. Didn't club instructors in the old days do stuff like bending aileron trim tabs by hand if after a flight it was commented "it rolls to the left/right a bit when you take your hands off". How many times have nav and landing lights been left u/s for months. It was actions like this that we just "grinned and beared".
So what is the conclusion here? Its great that we can hire aircraft again at EGNT. But is the NC ownership as white as it seems, or are we all just being fooled? Are there any connections with the old characters in the club which led to the current ownership?
Finally, the new hire rate does seems expensive these days at 100 pounds plus the landing fee. But I did see in last month's Pilot Magazine the review of UK flying schools, this price is still one of the cheapest. By the way, I think Ashton Aviation behind Samson is doing a Warrier solo during the week for about 10 pounds an hour less than NC.
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NAC
Clearfinals:
For a while there wasn't much to talk about apart from drinking!
H - I will, don't worry about that!
Have Ashton got their fixed wing yet? Dave said it's arrival was imminent.
For a while there wasn't much to talk about apart from drinking!
H - I will, don't worry about that!
Have Ashton got their fixed wing yet? Dave said it's arrival was imminent.
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Clearfinals
Yes you are right. I should have read more carefully. If all NC did was have a look at it then no harm done. If however, hands were laid on and tools applied then that is a very different matter.
The items that may be considered to be pilot maintenance are listed somewhere and when I can find it, I'll list them here or give a link to where it may be found (It's a CAP5XX publication). More than a few people think that they can have a dabble themselves to save money but when the cack hits the fan other people can die and the poor LAE whose signature was the last one in the log book can end up carrying the blame and going to jail even though he/she may have had absolutely nothing to do with the cause of the crash. I speak from very good experience on this point. Thankfully, it was proven to have been unauthorised maintenance but for a very long time the finger of suspicion hung over our heads and that is not a very life enhancing matter.
But I've left that behind now but it still riles me when I hear of the same things still furtively going on.
EASA is the European Aviation Safety Agency, the replacement of the JAA and is now the Europe wide law maker for aviation which even our dear old CAA will have to bow to.
Edit
Found it - it's CAP520
Part 5 Pilot Maintenance
1 Introduction
1.1 There are two aspects of light aircraft maintenance which may be carried out by a
licensed pilot who is also the owner or operator of the aircraft:
a) A 50 hr Check to the LAMS for aeroplanes (CAA/LAMS/ A/1999), but only if the
aeroplane has a C of A in the Private Category (not helicopters).
b) Certain maintenance tasks prescribed in the Air Navigation (General) Regulation
16, but only if the aeroplane or helicopter has a C of A in the Private or Special
Category. (See Appendix 1 to this Part.)
1.2 Since the 50 hr Check requires visual inspection of various components in order to
assess their serviceability, it is important that due consideration should be given to
the practical aspects of this task before it is undertaken. It is strongly recommended
that guidance be sought from the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer or the
Approved Organisation who normally carry out the maintenance work on the
particular aeroplane.
Oh and for those of you that fly jelly hoppers some interesting and sobering human factors facts.
In the fixed wing world it takes on average a string of 11 errors to lead to an accident. In the rotary wing world, on average, a string of just 3 errors results in an accident
Something to bear in mind next time you see or hear of anyone dabbling with their Helicopter and something that definitely needs reporting
Yes you are right. I should have read more carefully. If all NC did was have a look at it then no harm done. If however, hands were laid on and tools applied then that is a very different matter.
The items that may be considered to be pilot maintenance are listed somewhere and when I can find it, I'll list them here or give a link to where it may be found (It's a CAP5XX publication). More than a few people think that they can have a dabble themselves to save money but when the cack hits the fan other people can die and the poor LAE whose signature was the last one in the log book can end up carrying the blame and going to jail even though he/she may have had absolutely nothing to do with the cause of the crash. I speak from very good experience on this point. Thankfully, it was proven to have been unauthorised maintenance but for a very long time the finger of suspicion hung over our heads and that is not a very life enhancing matter.
But I've left that behind now but it still riles me when I hear of the same things still furtively going on.
EASA is the European Aviation Safety Agency, the replacement of the JAA and is now the Europe wide law maker for aviation which even our dear old CAA will have to bow to.
Edit
Found it - it's CAP520
Part 5 Pilot Maintenance
1 Introduction
1.1 There are two aspects of light aircraft maintenance which may be carried out by a
licensed pilot who is also the owner or operator of the aircraft:
a) A 50 hr Check to the LAMS for aeroplanes (CAA/LAMS/ A/1999), but only if the
aeroplane has a C of A in the Private Category (not helicopters).
b) Certain maintenance tasks prescribed in the Air Navigation (General) Regulation
16, but only if the aeroplane or helicopter has a C of A in the Private or Special
Category. (See Appendix 1 to this Part.)
1.2 Since the 50 hr Check requires visual inspection of various components in order to
assess their serviceability, it is important that due consideration should be given to
the practical aspects of this task before it is undertaken. It is strongly recommended
that guidance be sought from the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer or the
Approved Organisation who normally carry out the maintenance work on the
particular aeroplane.
Oh and for those of you that fly jelly hoppers some interesting and sobering human factors facts.
In the fixed wing world it takes on average a string of 11 errors to lead to an accident. In the rotary wing world, on average, a string of just 3 errors results in an accident
Something to bear in mind next time you see or hear of anyone dabbling with their Helicopter and something that definitely needs reporting
Last edited by Speedtape; 31st Mar 2005 at 17:10.
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There's certainly been a lot said about this!
I haven't reported anything to the CAA as was suggested because, as far as I'm aware, there is nothing to report.
I only know that Neil was going to have a look at the engine to see if something was loose, which is a reasonable course of action, and if something trivial was obviously loose intended to tighten it, I don't believe from my reading of the rules that's a job for an engineer, but correct me if I'm wrong...
I have no idea what happened after that because I left, but I'm sure he would call out an engineer if that was required once he'd assessed the situation.
I haven't reported anything to the CAA as was suggested because, as far as I'm aware, there is nothing to report.
I only know that Neil was going to have a look at the engine to see if something was loose, which is a reasonable course of action, and if something trivial was obviously loose intended to tighten it, I don't believe from my reading of the rules that's a job for an engineer, but correct me if I'm wrong...
I have no idea what happened after that because I left, but I'm sure he would call out an engineer if that was required once he'd assessed the situation.
Last edited by Mu Beta; 7th Apr 2005 at 17:51.
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Ok I'll correct you. You are wrong. Read the above.
In the scenario you mention, NC has a look and finds that one of the rocker drain tubes has a loose union nut so he gets out his trusty Halfords adjustable spanner and tightens the nut. However, he does not realise that the elbow fitting, the nut and the tube are manufactured from a light alloy and he introduces a stress crack in the flange of the tube or manages to introduce a twist in the tube down near one of the bends. X number of hours later a carefree Mr X along with his mate and 2 kids is enjoying his expensive trip out to the cafe in the same aircraft when suddenly he notices the oil pressure is very low and the oil temp has risen through the roof. He sees no other sign of the pending mishap until suddenly the engine starts to run roughly and then seconds later it seizes just as he's about to cross a large urban area. The innocent little adjustment made X hours before has resulted in the tube giving way and emptying the engine oil contents into the lower cowling. Hope Mr X's PFLs are well practiced and up to scratch and that he's been a very conscientious pilot and made sure that he could safely land clear before setting out on his direct track across the large conurbation.
In the scenario you mention, NC has a look and finds that one of the rocker drain tubes has a loose union nut so he gets out his trusty Halfords adjustable spanner and tightens the nut. However, he does not realise that the elbow fitting, the nut and the tube are manufactured from a light alloy and he introduces a stress crack in the flange of the tube or manages to introduce a twist in the tube down near one of the bends. X number of hours later a carefree Mr X along with his mate and 2 kids is enjoying his expensive trip out to the cafe in the same aircraft when suddenly he notices the oil pressure is very low and the oil temp has risen through the roof. He sees no other sign of the pending mishap until suddenly the engine starts to run roughly and then seconds later it seizes just as he's about to cross a large urban area. The innocent little adjustment made X hours before has resulted in the tube giving way and emptying the engine oil contents into the lower cowling. Hope Mr X's PFLs are well practiced and up to scratch and that he's been a very conscientious pilot and made sure that he could safely land clear before setting out on his direct track across the large conurbation.
Last edited by Speedtape; 31st Mar 2005 at 19:23.
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Yes, I see what you mean. I stand corrected. I hope then that he called an engineer.
My friends and I had been due to fly at 3pm but were held up by the previous flight overrunning till nearly 4pm. Kevin arrived back in the aircraft and was still with it when we went to check it over. When we pointed the oil out to him he said it was grounded and headed back into the Northumbria Helicopters office, I assumed to put in the flight log that he'd grounded it after his flight and tell Neil.
We went back to the Flying School office and when we arrived Kevin was on the 'phone telling Neil. Neil said he was going over to have a look and see if anything needed tightening up.
My friends and I left then as we didn't really have the time to wait for another aircraft to become available 40 minutes or so later.
That is the extent of my actual knowledge of what happened. I don't actually know if anyone did any work on the aircraft or not and therefore don't think I have any grounds for reporting anything. I assume Kevin and Neil will have done the right thing between them. I certainly hope so.
My friends and I had been due to fly at 3pm but were held up by the previous flight overrunning till nearly 4pm. Kevin arrived back in the aircraft and was still with it when we went to check it over. When we pointed the oil out to him he said it was grounded and headed back into the Northumbria Helicopters office, I assumed to put in the flight log that he'd grounded it after his flight and tell Neil.
We went back to the Flying School office and when we arrived Kevin was on the 'phone telling Neil. Neil said he was going over to have a look and see if anything needed tightening up.
My friends and I left then as we didn't really have the time to wait for another aircraft to become available 40 minutes or so later.
That is the extent of my actual knowledge of what happened. I don't actually know if anyone did any work on the aircraft or not and therefore don't think I have any grounds for reporting anything. I assume Kevin and Neil will have done the right thing between them. I certainly hope so.
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Twin Farms
Happy - you will be strug up from the gallows with statememnts like that!
Unfortunately OR fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, I won't be able to attent tomorrow - have to take Father to visit his brother who isn't too good at the moment so I may miss events.
Please chaps, drink ALL you can in a short space of time.
Tell you what, I don't like the sound of this "tyre kicking" lark...
Unfortunately OR fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, I won't be able to attent tomorrow - have to take Father to visit his brother who isn't too good at the moment so I may miss events.
Please chaps, drink ALL you can in a short space of time.
Tell you what, I don't like the sound of this "tyre kicking" lark...
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Air Ambulance Appeal
As many of you will know the Northumbria Air Ambulance has been grounded becasuse of lack of funds.
My office has been trying to raise money for this cause and have arranged for a karaoke/disco to be held at Shankhouse Central Club in High Pit Cramlington at 7.00pm on 9th April.
Any one is welcome, the cost is £2.50, and you can pay at the door on the night.
I thought I'd post this as I'm sure some of you would like to support the Air Ambulance.
Hope to see some of you there.
For information the aircraft involved with the oil was indeed SE and I was told yesterday that one of the screws holding the gasket in place had been a bit loose.
My office has been trying to raise money for this cause and have arranged for a karaoke/disco to be held at Shankhouse Central Club in High Pit Cramlington at 7.00pm on 9th April.
Any one is welcome, the cost is £2.50, and you can pay at the door on the night.
I thought I'd post this as I'm sure some of you would like to support the Air Ambulance.
Hope to see some of you there.
For information the aircraft involved with the oil was indeed SE and I was told yesterday that one of the screws holding the gasket in place had been a bit loose.
Last edited by Mu Beta; 3rd Apr 2005 at 18:55.
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Re Tech Aircraft
Thanks for the info MB,it smelt of burnt oil when I flew it but had no apparent leaks.
It should also be pointed out to all and sundry that this aircraft is on hire and not one of NAC's fleet.
PIC makes the decision to fly or not as the case may be,its not only their safety (death is fatal ) but what about the inoccent party that gets an aeroplane on their house just because "it was like that when we got it "
Accidents dont just happen !
It should also be pointed out to all and sundry that this aircraft is on hire and not one of NAC's fleet.
PIC makes the decision to fly or not as the case may be,its not only their safety (death is fatal ) but what about the inoccent party that gets an aeroplane on their house just because "it was like that when we got it "
Accidents dont just happen !
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Air Ambulance Appeal
Unfortunately, the event I mentioned in my last posting has been cancelled as there weren't enough people going to make it viable.
That's life!
Yes, SE is on hire, and Neil told me at the weekend that MUZ should be back on line soon and I think he said India Foxtrot not long after, at which time the aforementioned will be returned to Blackpool.
That's life!
Yes, SE is on hire, and Neil told me at the weekend that MUZ should be back on line soon and I think he said India Foxtrot not long after, at which time the aforementioned will be returned to Blackpool.
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Northumbria Flying School
Popped in today only to be hijacked by JC demanding £50.00 + VAT.... flying membership for NC's gaff!
Membership forms etc are not available yet but Lynda behind the desk is taking details which will be entered onto their system when it's up and running next week.
Membership forms etc are not available yet but Lynda behind the desk is taking details which will be entered onto their system when it's up and running next week.
