Newcastle Aero Club
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Maybe I'm missing something here but exactly how much of the (recently) £75.00 per year membership that we each pay (hopefully) do you think is left over after expenditure on premises,wages, insurance and myriad other sundries? Not a bloody lot I would imagine. Exactly how much of the hourly flying rate do you think is left over after the fuel, maintenance, landing fees and other associated costs have been accounted for? Not a bloody lot I should imagine.
So why the hell don't you all desist with the witchhunt, besmirching the good names of a good many people who have been loyal servants of the club probably from before half of you were an itch in daddies pants.
Accept it - the club went down because outgoings exceeded income. It happens every day I'm afraid and it' a hard fact of life.
How many of you reached into your wallets and stumped up the cash as requested to keep this situation from developing in the first place? NOT BLOODY MANY I warrant.
And I do not appreciate being PM'd in a vain attempt at finding out who I am (noiseabatement). Not many of you know me (thats obvious) and judging by the tripe I'm seeing here, I think thats a good thing.
So why the hell don't you all desist with the witchhunt, besmirching the good names of a good many people who have been loyal servants of the club probably from before half of you were an itch in daddies pants.
Accept it - the club went down because outgoings exceeded income. It happens every day I'm afraid and it' a hard fact of life.
How many of you reached into your wallets and stumped up the cash as requested to keep this situation from developing in the first place? NOT BLOODY MANY I warrant.
And I do not appreciate being PM'd in a vain attempt at finding out who I am (noiseabatement). Not many of you know me (thats obvious) and judging by the tripe I'm seeing here, I think thats a good thing.
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Newcastle Upon Tyne Aero Club
Dear Mermbers:
Well well well - Mr HighSpeedTape, I sent you a private PM to avoid asking you a question that everybody could see.
Your response to my question was to quote me in open forum for something that I asked you privately. I don't particularly care whether you are in the flight deck (although I'm so pleased you are not) or do something else in aviation. If you care to consult my profile then you will find out exactly who and what I do.
Further to that my private posting was not a vain attempt to find out who you are, again - you identity matters not.
And without doing what I requested members not to do I will finally say this - I sincerely hope that somebody saves our club, even if it's just to see a large amount of egg on your face.
newcastlepilot:
Hi, yes - an interesting chat with Mike Pott today, mainly regarding Coulson & Kestevan's links with Little Wings.
Pretty positive but I really think time will tell.= on this one.
Good luck
BB
Well well well - Mr HighSpeedTape, I sent you a private PM to avoid asking you a question that everybody could see.
Your response to my question was to quote me in open forum for something that I asked you privately. I don't particularly care whether you are in the flight deck (although I'm so pleased you are not) or do something else in aviation. If you care to consult my profile then you will find out exactly who and what I do.
Further to that my private posting was not a vain attempt to find out who you are, again - you identity matters not.
And without doing what I requested members not to do I will finally say this - I sincerely hope that somebody saves our club, even if it's just to see a large amount of egg on your face.
newcastlepilot:
Hi, yes - an interesting chat with Mike Pott today, mainly regarding Coulson & Kestevan's links with Little Wings.
Pretty positive but I really think time will tell.= on this one.
Good luck
BB
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HST
True, margins must have been tight, but surely thats the nature of a not for profit members club.
The demise is down to a combination of incompetence and possibly dishonesty, and you can hardly blame the members for wanting to expose dishonesty. The speculation could all have been avoided if the committee(s) had been open and allowed the membership to know what was going on, but they did not. Lack of information inevitably arouses suspicion.
Finally I was one of the few who answered the call and put hope above expectation. Were you??
True, margins must have been tight, but surely thats the nature of a not for profit members club.
The demise is down to a combination of incompetence and possibly dishonesty, and you can hardly blame the members for wanting to expose dishonesty. The speculation could all have been avoided if the committee(s) had been open and allowed the membership to know what was going on, but they did not. Lack of information inevitably arouses suspicion.
Finally I was one of the few who answered the call and put hope above expectation. Were you??
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noiseabatement.
YOU instigated a PM to me in, what I'll repeat, was a vain attempt to find to seek information about me in relation to previous posts I have made. Quite how that translates into your version I don't know. Now the beauty of pprune and many other forums like it is, we can be what we want to be. My profile gives my true occupation. Anyone with a knowledge of the aviation industry will know what that is and from then on my identity will be open for you to sleuth out if you have half a clue how to go about it. The same goes for yours although we could debate whether or not you are truely what you say you are (by the way I've not seen your licence type described that way before. A lesser rating yes) although it's obvious that you purport to fly the flag and have probably worked on their regional turboprop fleet before your current position. Given that information, it should be relatively easy to identify you by asking questions in the right places. I'll probably see you on the flight deck sometime eh? Lucky you can always hide behind the flight deck door but then I could just use the emergency access code.
Quite why you think I shall end up with egg on my face I do not know. I have never once said I would like to see the club go under. I was one of the few who made a small donation in order to try and prevent such a thing happening (theres your answer C32). Now that it has happened, I am dismayed although, as is probably obvious, not entirely surprised. This is because the demise was partially engineered to happen and in a way was inevitable. I do not frequent the club very often as I have no real need to do so any more apart from getting revalidated and catching up with JC and KL, having my own aircraft. However I do still maintain my full membership. Truth is for the last couple of years it has become too expensive to fly the club aircraft from NCL. Allied to that, some of the pretentious knobs that I seem to come across when I do visit and I thinks it's obvious why.
See you on the F/D eh?
YOU instigated a PM to me in, what I'll repeat, was a vain attempt to find to seek information about me in relation to previous posts I have made. Quite how that translates into your version I don't know. Now the beauty of pprune and many other forums like it is, we can be what we want to be. My profile gives my true occupation. Anyone with a knowledge of the aviation industry will know what that is and from then on my identity will be open for you to sleuth out if you have half a clue how to go about it. The same goes for yours although we could debate whether or not you are truely what you say you are (by the way I've not seen your licence type described that way before. A lesser rating yes) although it's obvious that you purport to fly the flag and have probably worked on their regional turboprop fleet before your current position. Given that information, it should be relatively easy to identify you by asking questions in the right places. I'll probably see you on the flight deck sometime eh? Lucky you can always hide behind the flight deck door but then I could just use the emergency access code.
Quite why you think I shall end up with egg on my face I do not know. I have never once said I would like to see the club go under. I was one of the few who made a small donation in order to try and prevent such a thing happening (theres your answer C32). Now that it has happened, I am dismayed although, as is probably obvious, not entirely surprised. This is because the demise was partially engineered to happen and in a way was inevitable. I do not frequent the club very often as I have no real need to do so any more apart from getting revalidated and catching up with JC and KL, having my own aircraft. However I do still maintain my full membership. Truth is for the last couple of years it has become too expensive to fly the club aircraft from NCL. Allied to that, some of the pretentious knobs that I seem to come across when I do visit and I thinks it's obvious why.
See you on the F/D eh?
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Newcastle Upon Tyne Aero Club
Members:
HST: You no doubt will meet me one day, may already have in passing but who knows...or cares really. You seem to question everything about everybody - is that your own insercurity?
You can ask around all you want to find out who I am, it is no secret to other members.
At the end of the day we all have wide and varied opinions on how & why things happened at Newcastle Aero Club but bitching amoungst ourselves certainly isn't going to sort the situation.
I'm an adult who really doesn't tell lies or makes things up so please do not question my profile, and me not yours.
I think we should get on with the job in hand and put any other matters to sleep - you agree?
I think in some ways the anonimity of users CAN cause the inevitable problems but on the other hand it is fun.
I did think I had sent you a private email but it certainly wasn't to find out who you were, it was maybe to ask a question privately which isn't a bad thing. The egg on the face thing was purely in response to your wake up and smell the coffee posting which strongly indicated you had information that would suggest no other operator would ever be allowed on the airfield which we now know not to be the case as I believe a long term lease is curently being discussed with a proposed lifeline, said to be Elia Golfin.
Anyway HST, lets put things aside and plod on regardless.
Good luck
BB
HST: You no doubt will meet me one day, may already have in passing but who knows...or cares really. You seem to question everything about everybody - is that your own insercurity?
You can ask around all you want to find out who I am, it is no secret to other members.
At the end of the day we all have wide and varied opinions on how & why things happened at Newcastle Aero Club but bitching amoungst ourselves certainly isn't going to sort the situation.
I'm an adult who really doesn't tell lies or makes things up so please do not question my profile, and me not yours.
I think we should get on with the job in hand and put any other matters to sleep - you agree?
I think in some ways the anonimity of users CAN cause the inevitable problems but on the other hand it is fun.
I did think I had sent you a private email but it certainly wasn't to find out who you were, it was maybe to ask a question privately which isn't a bad thing. The egg on the face thing was purely in response to your wake up and smell the coffee posting which strongly indicated you had information that would suggest no other operator would ever be allowed on the airfield which we now know not to be the case as I believe a long term lease is curently being discussed with a proposed lifeline, said to be Elia Golfin.
Anyway HST, lets put things aside and plod on regardless.
Good luck
BB
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noiseabatement
Roger that. It's forgotten about.
I apologise if my sometimes brusque or abrasive manner winds people up but then I find I'm becoming increasingly frustrated about the way Newcastle Airport in general is in an accelerated dive away from the friendly little place it once used to be.
If you have concrete evidence that the lifeline will be accepted by the Airport, then who am I to argue otherwise. It is just contrary to what I have been told is going to happen. There have been many things here that have been rumoured would be about to happen and despite many believing the rumours to be false, those things have actually happened. None of them good if you happen to earn a living or pursue an interest at Newcastle. You may well find yourself effected professionally sometime in the foreseeable future. Your company and mine are already paying a far greater price per passenger than easyjet in airport charges but thats a different story for a different day.
Hope to see you around.
Roger that. It's forgotten about.
I apologise if my sometimes brusque or abrasive manner winds people up but then I find I'm becoming increasingly frustrated about the way Newcastle Airport in general is in an accelerated dive away from the friendly little place it once used to be.
If you have concrete evidence that the lifeline will be accepted by the Airport, then who am I to argue otherwise. It is just contrary to what I have been told is going to happen. There have been many things here that have been rumoured would be about to happen and despite many believing the rumours to be false, those things have actually happened. None of them good if you happen to earn a living or pursue an interest at Newcastle. You may well find yourself effected professionally sometime in the foreseeable future. Your company and mine are already paying a far greater price per passenger than easyjet in airport charges but thats a different story for a different day.
Hope to see you around.
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If Noise is the BB that I think he is then he does have the ratings in his profile, because I enjoyed (as SLF) a late go around from LHR a few years ago with him in the LHS of a 320, at that time.
With regard to comments about AC and his haste to get a rescue plan approved at the pevious AGM, perhaps I may shed some (although certainly not all ) light on this.
AC approached myself and several other members of the club to try and help formulate a recovery plan. In fact AC wanted us to be co-opted onto the committee, but we refused to do so, unless a sensible recovery plan could be formulated with financial evidence that it at least had a chance of succeeding.
Through TW, an initial approach was made to MB to see if as a member he would be prepared to lend financial support to the club, and even take over the management of the club. This was because one thing that had become abundantly clear from the outset was that the club could not be effectively managed by a committee of amateurs, no matter how well meaning. Both AC and BL had accetpted that this was the case.
The results of our negotiations with MB were presented to the AGM, in the form of AC reading out MBs letter of proposal. Neither the existing committee members or the advisors, felt that MBs proposal retained sufficient of the essential elements of the club to be a preferred option. In essence there would be no or very little ab initio training and there would be no bar/club house. He would purchase the aircraft and make them and the hangar available for hire, with a limited amount of on site engineering.
I visitied Baker Tilly, with AC on one occassion, mainly because I wanted to try and establish as nearly as i could the true financial picture. The meeting was not as pessimistic as I had anticipated, and Baker Tilly seemed to be confident that providing adequate cash flow and profit loss forecasts were made available, they would be able to secure a £30K overdraft facility, to enable the club to satisfy immediate and threatening creditors, and thereafter trade out. Obtaining the accurate data required proved difficult. LH a qualified accountant volunteered to produce the necessary documentation, but was thwarted by difficulties in actually finding all the necessary financial information. However she managed to produce some cash flow analyses which seemed to support the view that NAC could with some fairly draconian fiscal stringencies trade out.
The committee and advisors felt that all club members should have the opportunity of putting forward any alternative plans, and that was why a letter was sent out to that effect. There was division amongst the committee and advisors about circulation of accounts and further information. The advisors wished to send out the non-audited accounts, with the proposed action plan, but the existing committee members did not. The reaoning given was that allowing too much information to get out might scare creditors into taking precipitive action. It was my view that this was less likely than there being serious consequences from not circulating full information, however the advice of myself and other advisors was overuled on this.
Meanwhile in parrallel, and with the full knowledge of AC/BL, I called together a group of members known to me, with a view to seeking an injection of cash, £100K, to rescue the club, but subject to modification of the Mem and Arts, along the lines suggested by me at the previous AGM, namely to have the club run by a manager who would be answerable to the board, who would in effect be non execs, providing scrutiny and overall direction, but not being involved in the day to day management of the club. Several of you may have attended this meeting. Sadly I was unable to pursuade enough people that this would succeed.
The final recovery plan presented at the AGM was therefore similar to the plan above, but relying on the overdraft facility rather than a cash injection. The big difference was that Aero engineering needed to be liquidated. This was recommended by Baker Tilly (at a meeting attended by AC/LH but not me) despite the fact they acknowledged they would lose £5K owed by Engineering.
With all this delay, time was pressing, and court action being threatened by the IR. TW was liaising with the airport, so it was not true to say that there was no dialogue, however, for some reason, ongoing landing fees were not being paid (NIA had agreed to wait until an action plan was agreed before chasing the then £30K provided the ongoing fees were paid). Why they were not only AC can tell.
Sorry about the length of this post, and even this is to some extent a summary, but hopefull it at least gives you a flavour of why AC was so keen to get the plan approved quickly.
Sadly GOs prophecy came true.
If there are any other questions that I can answer I am happy to try and do so.
With regard to comments about AC and his haste to get a rescue plan approved at the pevious AGM, perhaps I may shed some (although certainly not all ) light on this.
AC approached myself and several other members of the club to try and help formulate a recovery plan. In fact AC wanted us to be co-opted onto the committee, but we refused to do so, unless a sensible recovery plan could be formulated with financial evidence that it at least had a chance of succeeding.
Through TW, an initial approach was made to MB to see if as a member he would be prepared to lend financial support to the club, and even take over the management of the club. This was because one thing that had become abundantly clear from the outset was that the club could not be effectively managed by a committee of amateurs, no matter how well meaning. Both AC and BL had accetpted that this was the case.
The results of our negotiations with MB were presented to the AGM, in the form of AC reading out MBs letter of proposal. Neither the existing committee members or the advisors, felt that MBs proposal retained sufficient of the essential elements of the club to be a preferred option. In essence there would be no or very little ab initio training and there would be no bar/club house. He would purchase the aircraft and make them and the hangar available for hire, with a limited amount of on site engineering.
I visitied Baker Tilly, with AC on one occassion, mainly because I wanted to try and establish as nearly as i could the true financial picture. The meeting was not as pessimistic as I had anticipated, and Baker Tilly seemed to be confident that providing adequate cash flow and profit loss forecasts were made available, they would be able to secure a £30K overdraft facility, to enable the club to satisfy immediate and threatening creditors, and thereafter trade out. Obtaining the accurate data required proved difficult. LH a qualified accountant volunteered to produce the necessary documentation, but was thwarted by difficulties in actually finding all the necessary financial information. However she managed to produce some cash flow analyses which seemed to support the view that NAC could with some fairly draconian fiscal stringencies trade out.
The committee and advisors felt that all club members should have the opportunity of putting forward any alternative plans, and that was why a letter was sent out to that effect. There was division amongst the committee and advisors about circulation of accounts and further information. The advisors wished to send out the non-audited accounts, with the proposed action plan, but the existing committee members did not. The reaoning given was that allowing too much information to get out might scare creditors into taking precipitive action. It was my view that this was less likely than there being serious consequences from not circulating full information, however the advice of myself and other advisors was overuled on this.
Meanwhile in parrallel, and with the full knowledge of AC/BL, I called together a group of members known to me, with a view to seeking an injection of cash, £100K, to rescue the club, but subject to modification of the Mem and Arts, along the lines suggested by me at the previous AGM, namely to have the club run by a manager who would be answerable to the board, who would in effect be non execs, providing scrutiny and overall direction, but not being involved in the day to day management of the club. Several of you may have attended this meeting. Sadly I was unable to pursuade enough people that this would succeed.
The final recovery plan presented at the AGM was therefore similar to the plan above, but relying on the overdraft facility rather than a cash injection. The big difference was that Aero engineering needed to be liquidated. This was recommended by Baker Tilly (at a meeting attended by AC/LH but not me) despite the fact they acknowledged they would lose £5K owed by Engineering.
With all this delay, time was pressing, and court action being threatened by the IR. TW was liaising with the airport, so it was not true to say that there was no dialogue, however, for some reason, ongoing landing fees were not being paid (NIA had agreed to wait until an action plan was agreed before chasing the then £30K provided the ongoing fees were paid). Why they were not only AC can tell.
Sorry about the length of this post, and even this is to some extent a summary, but hopefull it at least gives you a flavour of why AC was so keen to get the plan approved quickly.
Sadly GOs prophecy came true.
If there are any other questions that I can answer I am happy to try and do so.
Last edited by martinidoc; 11th Dec 2004 at 15:46.
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Sorry not sure about engineering. Never saw any accounts for them for this year.
However the previous years accounts appeared to show losses of 40-50K per year. This in addition to the fact that most of the major outgoings of aer engineering were paid directly by aero club, namely, rent, electrics, engineers salary, BP bill, and bills for aero parts. Difficult to understand how it was still losing this amount of money. The accumulated debt from engineering to aero club was about 250K, which showed in the club reserves. Steve Askey queried this on several occassions at AGMs, but not being an accountant I have to confess I never really understood the anwers, but on the face of it, and according to Steve Askey (an accountant member) engineering may have been trading illegally for some time. I wonder if it had not been liquidated sooner, because that would have wiped out the reserves on the clubc accounts, and brought thyem to insolvency too. No doubt the administrators will sought that one out. Perhaps one of our accountant members can comment?
However the previous years accounts appeared to show losses of 40-50K per year. This in addition to the fact that most of the major outgoings of aer engineering were paid directly by aero club, namely, rent, electrics, engineers salary, BP bill, and bills for aero parts. Difficult to understand how it was still losing this amount of money. The accumulated debt from engineering to aero club was about 250K, which showed in the club reserves. Steve Askey queried this on several occassions at AGMs, but not being an accountant I have to confess I never really understood the anwers, but on the face of it, and according to Steve Askey (an accountant member) engineering may have been trading illegally for some time. I wonder if it had not been liquidated sooner, because that would have wiped out the reserves on the clubc accounts, and brought thyem to insolvency too. No doubt the administrators will sought that one out. Perhaps one of our accountant members can comment?
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Newcastle Upon Tyne Aero Club
Hello Members:
Just a short post, correct me if I am wrong - Martin Ballinger would simply turn the Aero Club into an extension of his Samson Jet Centre?
Every posting seems to refer to Coulson in some way or another, I actually found the man extremely nauseating and very dull, and his skill (or not) as a company director appears to have been questioned many times. But at the end of the day he was elected by US and for the time being we will have to live with that.
A very worrying thought, another ex chairman is rumoured to be part of a possible proposal. I state clearly that I will venomously oppose ANY plan that that man is involved in.
Professional etiquette prevents me from posting my true feelings about this man but reading earlier postings re: a new engine fitted to his friends aircraft etc and the bare faced ignorance of this man to stand up in an AGM and say he hadn't been invoiced is way beyond comprehension AND with the now reduntant enineer sitting next to him at the time.
I sincerely hope from the bottom of my heart that RMT admimistrators find something irregular with the purchase of that fuel bowser.
My words may appear strong, but in the past to hear these people laughing, plotting, scheming with our, the members money just makes me physically sick.
Good luck
B
Just a short post, correct me if I am wrong - Martin Ballinger would simply turn the Aero Club into an extension of his Samson Jet Centre?
Every posting seems to refer to Coulson in some way or another, I actually found the man extremely nauseating and very dull, and his skill (or not) as a company director appears to have been questioned many times. But at the end of the day he was elected by US and for the time being we will have to live with that.
A very worrying thought, another ex chairman is rumoured to be part of a possible proposal. I state clearly that I will venomously oppose ANY plan that that man is involved in.
Professional etiquette prevents me from posting my true feelings about this man but reading earlier postings re: a new engine fitted to his friends aircraft etc and the bare faced ignorance of this man to stand up in an AGM and say he hadn't been invoiced is way beyond comprehension AND with the now reduntant enineer sitting next to him at the time.
I sincerely hope from the bottom of my heart that RMT admimistrators find something irregular with the purchase of that fuel bowser.
My words may appear strong, but in the past to hear these people laughing, plotting, scheming with our, the members money just makes me physically sick.
Good luck
B
Last edited by noiseabatement; 8th Jan 2005 at 20:49.
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Newcastle Upon Tyne Aero Club
Martinidoc:
Just to advise you that I am not the legendry BB you are probably thinking of and although we are similarly type rated AND similarly named I could never be good enough to fill his shoes, also - his "go around ratio" is probably a lot lower than mine! Our initials are similar but we are very named differently.
Thank you
BB (The other one!)
Just to advise you that I am not the legendry BB you are probably thinking of and although we are similarly type rated AND similarly named I could never be good enough to fill his shoes, also - his "go around ratio" is probably a lot lower than mine! Our initials are similar but we are very named differently.
Thank you
BB (The other one!)
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Engineering Invoices
In view of the fact no Invoices have been issued by the Engineering side of the Aero Club - were forceful enquiries ever made by those that owed money for services received and any offers made of payment in advance of a final Invoice?
Were the Jet Provost Group ever invoiced for hangarage or was this paid direct to the Airport Authority?
Daily fuel samples were taken from the Fuel Bowser, were these ever re-cycled and filtered back into the Bowser to save money, I dont think so. So where did this Avgas go and not down the drain!
These are just some of the questions which need to be addressed.
Were the Jet Provost Group ever invoiced for hangarage or was this paid direct to the Airport Authority?
Daily fuel samples were taken from the Fuel Bowser, were these ever re-cycled and filtered back into the Bowser to save money, I dont think so. So where did this Avgas go and not down the drain!
These are just some of the questions which need to be addressed.
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Good Afternoon Gents
Just read the postings above this one, it shows why a "council of management" will not work.
Thank God we are all different and have different ideas.
The way forward is option 2 new broom,clean sweep, none of the previous hangers on and as martinidoc said a possible group of people to advise and make sure history does not repeat itself with sticky fingers in the till (allegedly)
Stick together guys !!!!!
Correct me if wrong is AC not a director Ncl aero engineering
and woul love to see it gone!
Just read the postings above this one, it shows why a "council of management" will not work.
Thank God we are all different and have different ideas.
The way forward is option 2 new broom,clean sweep, none of the previous hangers on and as martinidoc said a possible group of people to advise and make sure history does not repeat itself with sticky fingers in the till (allegedly)
Stick together guys !!!!!
Correct me if wrong is AC not a director Ncl aero engineering
and woul love to see it gone!
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HF(a), I agree with the wish for a new broom, but RMT have stated that they MUST accept the offer most beneficial to any creditors.So, if a group is formed by, say, former committee members(retired) and their offer is the highest tender, we could find the club under the control of the same people taking the flak on this forum, with the membership unable to do a thing about it.
A sobering thought.
A sobering thought.
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AC was a director of Aero engineering, but suspect he would have preferred no liquidations at all.
One other thing I forgot to mention in the analysis; we did manage to obtain as part of the financial recovery plan a quote from an alternative engineering outfit to provide all 50 hour and remedial work on site, plus 150 and annuals at a nearby facility, at a total cost for the fleet of approx 30K/ann, much cheaper than even the losses of Aero Engineering, and giving us clarity about the true engineering costs, to allow us to build that into the hourly rates.
On this basis and as I stated previously, Aero engineering was simply non-viable. Liquidation had the additional benefit of wrighting off some of the total debt namely BP and some of the IR debts. Whilst you might argue this was immoral, BP a very large company with very big profits, and an assurance that Aero club would continue to have fuel subject to pay as you go, frankly in the dire strates we were in, liquidation was the only sensible option for engineering. No criticism of the existing engineer was implied in this decision, indeed as an engineer I and others had the greatest confidence in him, however the engineering business was for a variety of reasons not financially viable.
With regard to financial irregularities, we only identified one area where, prima facie there appeared to be evidence of wrong doing (that is not to say there were not other areas, it is only to say that this was the only area that was apparent to us in the documentation made available to us), in relation to a former chaiman's expenses. Apparently BL signed over a mandate for the club account without reading the small print. This permitted the chairman to have sole signatory authority over the club accounts. An internet facility was established, and a debit card issued. The statements showed several money transfers to the chairman's account for several thousands of pounds and the debit card indicated expenditutre, which included payment of vetinary bills. According to AC the Police were informed and solicitors wrote to the said chairman who replied to the effect that the expenses were all justifiable. According to AC/BL no expenses were authorised by them as the other directors. Now it may be that the expenses were justified, but at the very least there was a lack of probity in the way in which these expenses were transfered, and without sufficient explanation, I have asked the administrators to pay particular attention to investigation in this area. The said former chairman might if he reads this like to comment, or indeed contact the administrators to put his side of the argument?
With regard to the JP. As previously stated I am not clear about the precise agreement between the officers of the JP Company and Aero club, but I do know that fees are paid either to the aero club or NIA (because these are reflected in the fixed charges that we pay for the JP), and that the JP is certainly not on the field at the expense of NAC.
Finally may I join in the praise of JO who has been one of the un-sung gentleman heroes of NAC.
IanM
One other thing I forgot to mention in the analysis; we did manage to obtain as part of the financial recovery plan a quote from an alternative engineering outfit to provide all 50 hour and remedial work on site, plus 150 and annuals at a nearby facility, at a total cost for the fleet of approx 30K/ann, much cheaper than even the losses of Aero Engineering, and giving us clarity about the true engineering costs, to allow us to build that into the hourly rates.
On this basis and as I stated previously, Aero engineering was simply non-viable. Liquidation had the additional benefit of wrighting off some of the total debt namely BP and some of the IR debts. Whilst you might argue this was immoral, BP a very large company with very big profits, and an assurance that Aero club would continue to have fuel subject to pay as you go, frankly in the dire strates we were in, liquidation was the only sensible option for engineering. No criticism of the existing engineer was implied in this decision, indeed as an engineer I and others had the greatest confidence in him, however the engineering business was for a variety of reasons not financially viable.
With regard to financial irregularities, we only identified one area where, prima facie there appeared to be evidence of wrong doing (that is not to say there were not other areas, it is only to say that this was the only area that was apparent to us in the documentation made available to us), in relation to a former chaiman's expenses. Apparently BL signed over a mandate for the club account without reading the small print. This permitted the chairman to have sole signatory authority over the club accounts. An internet facility was established, and a debit card issued. The statements showed several money transfers to the chairman's account for several thousands of pounds and the debit card indicated expenditutre, which included payment of vetinary bills. According to AC the Police were informed and solicitors wrote to the said chairman who replied to the effect that the expenses were all justifiable. According to AC/BL no expenses were authorised by them as the other directors. Now it may be that the expenses were justified, but at the very least there was a lack of probity in the way in which these expenses were transfered, and without sufficient explanation, I have asked the administrators to pay particular attention to investigation in this area. The said former chairman might if he reads this like to comment, or indeed contact the administrators to put his side of the argument?
With regard to the JP. As previously stated I am not clear about the precise agreement between the officers of the JP Company and Aero club, but I do know that fees are paid either to the aero club or NIA (because these are reflected in the fixed charges that we pay for the JP), and that the JP is certainly not on the field at the expense of NAC.
Finally may I join in the praise of JO who has been one of the un-sung gentleman heroes of NAC.
IanM
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Newcastle Upon Tyne Aero club
Dear Members:
I really think the Samsom Jet Centre/Ballinger option would see the club change into a corperate doss house for Newcastle United fotballers waiting for their SCOT AIRWAYS flights to away fixtures.
As I posted yesterday I believe that the Elia Golfin option has a good chance of taking the club forward. If he is in contact with EGNT authorities/RMT then surely that is a good sign, I haven't heard of the chap but lets see what developes. Had a private PM with TOPJET (he seems OK, gets some flack though but the club is at his heart!) and information provided re: Elia Golfin sounds good. I know from reading past postings people are very sceptical of his rumoured offer and I am myself but at least that option would keep our club and it to be run by the members for the members.
A new owner is not always a bad thig but we do need to move forward from this elected committee mindset. Committees always look out for themselves and that has been well documented in the past.
Martinidoc providing some excellent information in postings.
This thread WILL go on for years now small stones are being turned over and more and more information about how the club was run is coming to light. Before heading south I was a regular member but I have found out MORE via PPRUNE/Martinidoc etc about the club was/is run in the last 5 days than I did in 15 years!
Good luck
BB
I really think the Samsom Jet Centre/Ballinger option would see the club change into a corperate doss house for Newcastle United fotballers waiting for their SCOT AIRWAYS flights to away fixtures.
As I posted yesterday I believe that the Elia Golfin option has a good chance of taking the club forward. If he is in contact with EGNT authorities/RMT then surely that is a good sign, I haven't heard of the chap but lets see what developes. Had a private PM with TOPJET (he seems OK, gets some flack though but the club is at his heart!) and information provided re: Elia Golfin sounds good. I know from reading past postings people are very sceptical of his rumoured offer and I am myself but at least that option would keep our club and it to be run by the members for the members.
A new owner is not always a bad thig but we do need to move forward from this elected committee mindset. Committees always look out for themselves and that has been well documented in the past.
Martinidoc providing some excellent information in postings.
This thread WILL go on for years now small stones are being turned over and more and more information about how the club was run is coming to light. Before heading south I was a regular member but I have found out MORE via PPRUNE/Martinidoc etc about the club was/is run in the last 5 days than I did in 15 years!
Good luck
BB
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Carbheat
I hear what you are saying but with mutterings going around the same people would be back in the frame KL AC and company.
We do not need this...
Elia probably has web access and a few seem to be in contact with him on a regular basis, perhaps a posting from the man himself would settle this once and for all, It's only a suggestion
I think everybody would welcome it..
Regards all
We do not need this...
Elia probably has web access and a few seem to be in contact with him on a regular basis, perhaps a posting from the man himself would settle this once and for all, It's only a suggestion
I think everybody would welcome it..
Regards all
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Agreement yet again with Hold Fox:
If Mr. Golfin can let the members on Pprune have a bit of info about himself and his ideas without jeopardising his proposals, we would be very grateful and it may reduce a deal of the speculation and some of the uncertainty felt by many.
Thanks should go to TopJet for the info concerning Mr. Golfin already in the public domain.
I'm with noiseabatement in regard to the opening of our eyes to the secretive world of NAC....cheers to all who have told what they know.
If Mr. Golfin can let the members on Pprune have a bit of info about himself and his ideas without jeopardising his proposals, we would be very grateful and it may reduce a deal of the speculation and some of the uncertainty felt by many.
Thanks should go to TopJet for the info concerning Mr. Golfin already in the public domain.
I'm with noiseabatement in regard to the opening of our eyes to the secretive world of NAC....cheers to all who have told what they know.