Something has been playing on the mind since the DC tragedy. It is something that most, if not all, SLF do at least once....I do it all the time since I always have a window seat.

Much has been said about the flightcrews of both aircraft, whether or not they caught a glimpse of each other, whether the helicopter crew saw the right aircraft and so on.

But what about the pax on the jet, how much did they see?

When you're a pax in a plane, the journey is almost done, you watch out the window at the lights of the town or city beneath you.....children looking at various landmarks, often pointed out by parents (especially at night when they are all lit up), DC has many many landmarks to look at.....it is something many of us do....gaze out the windows as we approach the airport and landing, thinking about what we are going to do next....collect the bags, pick up something to eat on the way home, you know, normal things

I cannot help but wonder if some of those aboard the jet were just gazing out the windows, the youngsters excited to be home with their skating awards.....did they see that looming shape of the helicopter in that split second, we shall never know for sure but I think they probably did see it.....a split second is all it takes.

People might say that we shouldn't dwell on these things but by the same token, you cannot ignore the fact that those pax may have seen much much more than maybe we would want to consciously think about.

Interesting thought and one that I have not had. In the past, I'v only considred how it would be in the cabin immediately following a collision. In this case, it sems that the whole event - whilst violent - was very rapid for them all.

Some of the film recovered from PAX in the Erebus crash shows that they may have seen the ground a fraction of a second before they hit it IIRC. Too late to even think

ANZ 901 was a scenic flight, so most pax would be looking out the windows and filming or taking photos anyway, and being a CFIT was slightly different since the volcano was essentially filling with windows (scenically speaking). The pax aboard the flight would have been totally distracted with the view rather than the volcano seemingly getting closer/too close (effectively wing length away, simplistically speaking). The pax aboard this flight were expecting to get up close, so unlikely to have been overly concerned right to the point of impact.

The pax on the DC flight would not have been expecting anything coming into view and getting closer, and I believe that first "contact" in regard to ATC to Helicopter for the CRJ was around 1200ft? horizontal seperation. Even given the closing speed, that would still likely to have been noticed by some pax, even dismissed by them too as a case of "well everyone knows what they are doing, why worry" ethos. Looking at the various video footage, there seems to be a good sized white light shining under the helicopter, if reflects off the river below very clearly, so even if the helicopter was not recogniseable til the last seconds, that light almost certainly would have been seen from within the cabin of the aircraft for a few seconds as it got closer to it, which is why I suspect a few of the pax realised what was happening and what was about to happen.....which if that was the case would have been terrifying in the extreme due to it being so completely unexpected.

My colleagues and I have discussed the Pax questions and input to threads, as mentioned above. We are not changing our established way of handling these threads. If someone has been excluded from a thread by my colleagues for some reason, then the alternative is reading the thread whilst not signed in.

I must admit that I was puzzled by BL's suggestion - I wouldn't (normally) even attempt to contribute to the accidents thread - because I don't have the knowledge. However I do read them, and yes there are conflicting views, as you would expect, sometimes even posts that are a bit "odd" but then the professional contributors soon debunk those! Similarly I doubt that I would have sensible questions to post, particularly questions that others, better qualified than I have already posed / answered.

The trouble with commenting in the Professional Pilots section of the website is that journalists do pick up from this website and quote stuff from it as fact, even when it's unproven speculation ahead of the AAIB or NTSB or BEA report (which can take months). Professional Pilots are guilty of 'jumping the gun' as are anyone, but when journalists quote us SLF - after all, apart from my moniker, it's not obvious we're pax - as gospel, people get annoyed. Best we keep to our own friendly little sub-forum.

At the end of the day, regardless as to whether you are flightcrew (or former), ATC (or former) or groundcrew (or former).....or just a humble pax.....every single post on the accident related posts is the same thing (until the final report is published after 2-3+ years)

Pure speculation and guesstimate

Most of which, regardless of background or experience or qualification will be wrong anyway. Maybe the accident threads should be posted by mods/admin as a "read only" section, only to be updated by mods/admin as official reports are published...that would end all speculation from all quarters.

The problem is the sheer volume of posts and information. We are all volunteers, this is not my day job!

Heathrow Parking: A while back they said that they were going to merge the sign-in for Parking and Rewards. Now trying to book parking, neither of the two previous log-ins that I had will work. In this day and age that is not such a surprise but - has anyone had this problem?

In passing, I entered the dates and could not work out why the query was rejected. 1) Enter the departure date and time. 2) Select return date and time - but did not notice that the web site has not automatical worked out that, if I want to leave on a day in March, I will probably be back at some date later. It defaults both departure and arrival dates to today's date and does not update the return. :mad:

Sorry folks. We are going to leave accident and close calls discussion where they are - outside the Cabin.

Frequent Flyer / Loyalty points
 

Any thoughts on FF / Loyalty points accrual?

I write this in the context of having had colleagues in the past who would do totally unnatural things to earn a few more points. Itineraries going here there and everywhere, just to acquite a few more (often United, of all things) points. Make sure there was a stopoff, so they could clock up a few hotel points.

I certainly earned a few in the course of my travels, and was happy to do so, but I didn't let points determine who I flew with or where I stayed.

What's your experience been?

Earning the points is easy enough, especially with double points offers during quiet seasons and the option to buy points, together with everyday shopping with Amex earning points, and new credit cards popping up all the time offering you thousands of membership rewards if you do your shopping with them for a couple of months, the points soon add up.

When it comes to spending them, suddenly seats aren't available on your preferred flights, some of the perks like chauffeur driving to the terminal evaporate, and you're left struggling to get anything other than an economy flight leaving or arriving at inconvenient times. That's been my experience anyway.:rolleyes:

Earning points is too easy. Spending them has become either too difficult or not cost effective.

I also pick up points and do find I can use them if I plan far enough ahead. It’s never totally free as you have APD tax but I find it works out. All our long haul holiday flights are done with points using a mixture of EK/SQ/LH/BA.

As for hotels we use a couple of chains for work and these also accumulate, and we get room upgrades and discounted room rates and free stays so yes I find it worth it.

Do I deliberately target getting them no but do note if there’s a promotion of double or triple points in slack periods.

Cheers
Mr Mac

British Airways Avios are hard to spend on flights. However, I earn them and Checkers spends them at the BA wine club.

I agree with ZFT
All carriers have done this and the key is not the collection rate but the redeeming rate. That is always in the small print!

I have played this game since it was started in the UK and further agree that changing your spending pattern to gain points is a waste of money. There used to be a reall 'top trumps' in how many points someone had and I met some of those who took more flights than needed when the company was paying.

The only suggestion I would make is: Decide which carrier / alliance you want and then stick with them. If you take up a credit card for points - make sure it can go to your choice. Any of the smaller points systems, garages and so on, should also drop into the same bucket.

A big problem is that those who can plan a year ahead, are able to snap the good reward seats as soon as they are available. Those who have to plan holidays to book leave and might not be sure what they doing until a few months out - very difficult.

Paxboy
Mrs Mac is an avid collector of BA points as that is the airline they use for business, and has as you say linked her other cards in to their scheme and has so far taken us both to the Maldives and on Christmas Day to Santiago all for the real cost of under £4k Business Class which is tax largely I believe. The crucial thing is as you say to plan ahead, and also watch out for the flights being released when you have decided where and when you want to go, there is a good APP for that. My own points with LH for example are all used moving Mrs Mac from UK to Germany or elsewhere for weekends and generally we have no issues getting a seat for her so they do work. I have noticed that one of my carriers EK have both become quite a bit more expensive and indeed tight with their points over the last few years, however still got to Cape Town with them recently so again can be done if flexible.
Cheers
Mr Mac

A question from a rusty flyer.....not flown for about 10 years and rules may have changed since then

Can someone confirm what the rules are for carrying camera batteries in the cabin are, please?

I will be taking my Nikon D5000 camera plus two 1100 mAh Capacity lithium ion type batteries.

(Longhaul flights, airline undecided at this point)

Thank you in advance :)

I take two, sometimes 3 cameras with me, down to SA, and all batteries must be carried in the cabin luggage, i.e. not checked in.

British Airways guidance, and I suspect most of the airlines are similar too.
Smaller personal electronic devices with lithium ion/metal batteries.
For your own personal use you can take up to 15 battery-operated Personal Electronic Devices (PED) that containing lithium batteries such as laptops, tablets, smart phones, cameras, music players, smart baggage tags (e.g. Apple AirTag).
Please always ensure that:

• All battery-powered devices are packed to prevent accidental activation.
• Spare batteries are protected from short circuits and damage by keeping them in their original packaging (if possible), in a protective case or a strong plastic bag, or by placing electrical tape over the terminals and carried in the cabin.
• You don't take any damaged batteries or electrical equipment with you.

If the watt hour (Wh) rating is not shown on the battery or cannot be determined, then the battery cannot be accepted onboard. You can use the following formula to calculate the Wh rating: Milliamp hour rating/1000 multiplied by the voltage equals Wh.